Lots of questions to decide on stage1, or stage 2's - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Lots of questions to decide on stage1, or stage 2's

Alright guys, forgive me, but I have a couple questions to ask that have been beat to death. I've been searching, but can't find exactly what I'm trying to find out, and find a lot of differing opinions.

I've just ordered a 38r, and it will be installed by the end of the week. Of course, this only set the stage for injectors in the future .

Funny story, when I got the truck, I wanted only exhaust and intake. Then I wanted a mild tune for mileage. Now look at my tunes and mods, and read on to what I'm wanting next. It's addictive lol.

Once I pay the turbo off, I will want to upgrade my injectors. I am having trouble deciding whether I'll want to go to stage 1, or stage 2 injectors. So, I have several questions/concerns.

1) My truck has 250,000, but uses no oil, and has very little black smoke, and no oilsmoke. I have no reason to believe it's not in excellent shape, it runs very strong, starts good in all weather, gets good mileage. Even with all these good signs, a chance stage 2's would be too much for so many miles?

2) How much of a power increase will stage 1's yield? Will it be enough of a noticeable difference to justify the price?

3) I've read stage two's will require an upgraded hpop. I've also read some people say they went stage 2's with stock hpop, and it was fine. So, stage 2 be fine with stock hpop, or not?

4) Would stage 2's absolutely require head stud/gasket upgrades, or will it be fine, as long as I have it tuned accordingly? I'm not trying to push 500 hp here, but 400/800 would be awesome. Close to that would be fine too.

5) Before I get injectors, I plan to put a gauge on my hpop, and keep an eye on it, and test the hpop somehow, if possible. If I have some reason to believe it is getting weak, and need an hpop anyway, then I think I'll certainly get the upgraded hpop from dieselsite(I saw it's only like 600$, which I was expecting to be much more), and if I need an hpop anyway, I'll certainly get stage 2's.

I understand that injectors will require tunes to be updated to match the injectors. I also realize injectors, especially stage 2's, can potentially give my clutch a very short life. I understand this, and know that they'll only kill my clutch as quickly as my right foot dictates. If I hammer it too much and slip my clutch prematurely, I'll make sure I'm prepared for a clutch upgrade at that time as well.

Sorry for all the questions and long post guys, but thanks for your time, and helping me research so I can help make this important decision

87 f250 4wd LB ex cab 460 bored .60 edelbrock intake, towing cam glasspacks-6 mpg 8 on good day- my pride & joy once towed my '85 j-co j-crane 28' 5er

99 F250 7.3(engine stamped june of '99) 250K white ex cab lb, 2wd
jl audio slash 4ch amp, jl 8" sub, focal components front, infinity coax rear, 10 disc changer

-tymar intake, no muff
-bullydog egt, autometer boost
-f5 chip w/80t, 80e, 60t, 100, 140 extreme(140 is amazing!)
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 11:10 AM
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im in the same boat with you ive been tossing around the idea for a while heres what ive found. According to beans diesel the stage 1 injectors = 50 horse stage 2 = 130 ish plus tunes both they lead me to believe do not require as much oil pressure to run.to the clutch it would be a good idea to go with the South Bend Con OFE single disc clutch with flywheel (450hp/900tq) get away from the stock clutch soon! i do have one question though... will the stock turbo on a 2000 7.3 handle stage 2 injectors what kind of service life should i expect with this set up?
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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I have my eye on the south bend, but I won't buy another clutch until this one goes. I saw an luk clutch on dieselsite that's much cheaper than the south bend clutches, I'll look into that one more before I ever make a clutch decision.

So, all agreed, if stock hpop is in good working order, I can run stage 2's no problem? I don't necessarily want to run them to their absolute full potential anyway, as I don't wanna get into head studs and head gaskets.

87 f250 4wd LB ex cab 460 bored .60 edelbrock intake, towing cam glasspacks-6 mpg 8 on good day- my pride & joy once towed my '85 j-co j-crane 28' 5er

99 F250 7.3(engine stamped june of '99) 250K white ex cab lb, 2wd
jl audio slash 4ch amp, jl 8" sub, focal components front, infinity coax rear, 10 disc changer

-tymar intake, no muff
-bullydog egt, autometer boost
-f5 chip w/80t, 80e, 60t, 100, 140 extreme(140 is amazing!)
Garrett 38r
Chrome fender trim, 265 nitto terra graps, nerf bars, billet grille, '06 headlights, chrome door handles, louvered 5er tailgate
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 03:10 PM
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yes a good stock hpop will run the single shot stage 2 injectors. at least thats what i have gathered
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, so, stage 2's with stock hpop-would that require head stud and gasket upgrades, or, as long as I let my tuner know I have stock head bolts and head gasket so that he won't max them out, it'll be fine?

How big a difference will I feel between the stage 1 and the stage 2 injectors? Enough to justify the price?

87 f250 4wd LB ex cab 460 bored .60 edelbrock intake, towing cam glasspacks-6 mpg 8 on good day- my pride & joy once towed my '85 j-co j-crane 28' 5er

99 F250 7.3(engine stamped june of '99) 250K white ex cab lb, 2wd
jl audio slash 4ch amp, jl 8" sub, focal components front, infinity coax rear, 10 disc changer

-tymar intake, no muff
-bullydog egt, autometer boost
-f5 chip w/80t, 80e, 60t, 100, 140 extreme(140 is amazing!)
Garrett 38r
Chrome fender trim, 265 nitto terra graps, nerf bars, billet grille, '06 headlights, chrome door handles, louvered 5er tailgate
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-22-2011, 12:36 PM
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I don't know about the need for big injectors on a daily driver. Unless you go all out on a turbo, you'll right back where started. A mismatch of your air fuel mixture. Smoke is unburned fuel. Remove the air from the fuel, put a hot hpop and it sounds like you have a great tune and turbo. I hope you have the 4" housing on the tubine side. A tune that pushes the split shot injectors to the max will spray for a longer time. Thats what all the new engine do with there Piezo injectors. Feed fuel in for a longer cycle.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-22-2011, 01:41 PM
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Your 38R will take either injector just fine. I too am also interested to see what the general consensus is on this one because Im getting into the same boat as u, but my current injectors are getting tired.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-22-2011, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiarasue View Post
I don't know about the need for big injectors on a daily driver. Unless you go all out on a turbo, you'll right back where started. A mismatch of your air fuel mixture. Smoke is unburned fuel. Remove the air from the fuel, put a hot hpop and it sounds like you have a great tune and turbo. I hope you have the 4" housing on the tubine side. A tune that pushes the split shot injectors to the max will spray for a longer time. Thats what all the new engine do with there Piezo injectors. Feed fuel in for a longer cycle.
Maybe you didn't read my entire post? I have a 38r, and have been told plenty of times it'd be matched well to stage 2 injectors. But, I'm also not sure I'd have the truck tuned to push the injectors to the max. I want 400/800, if that combo would produce it. Maybe a little more but 500 hp is not a necessity for me.

87 f250 4wd LB ex cab 460 bored .60 edelbrock intake, towing cam glasspacks-6 mpg 8 on good day- my pride & joy once towed my '85 j-co j-crane 28' 5er

99 F250 7.3(engine stamped june of '99) 250K white ex cab lb, 2wd
jl audio slash 4ch amp, jl 8" sub, focal components front, infinity coax rear, 10 disc changer

-tymar intake, no muff
-bullydog egt, autometer boost
-f5 chip w/80t, 80e, 60t, 100, 140 extreme(140 is amazing!)
Garrett 38r
Chrome fender trim, 265 nitto terra graps, nerf bars, billet grille, '06 headlights, chrome door handles, louvered 5er tailgate
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-22-2011, 10:42 PM
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stage 2 injectors will work fine with a 38r using a stock hpop. HP will be in the range of 400-450. Its a great mod for the truck....

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2011, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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Lol, you guys were supposed to steer me towards the slightly less expensive stage 1's, but sounds like stage 2's it is!! Provided my hpop tests to be in good shape, which I have no reason to believe it isn't.

87 f250 4wd LB ex cab 460 bored .60 edelbrock intake, towing cam glasspacks-6 mpg 8 on good day- my pride & joy once towed my '85 j-co j-crane 28' 5er

99 F250 7.3(engine stamped june of '99) 250K white ex cab lb, 2wd
jl audio slash 4ch amp, jl 8" sub, focal components front, infinity coax rear, 10 disc changer

-tymar intake, no muff
-bullydog egt, autometer boost
-f5 chip w/80t, 80e, 60t, 100, 140 extreme(140 is amazing!)
Garrett 38r
Chrome fender trim, 265 nitto terra graps, nerf bars, billet grille, '06 headlights, chrome door handles, louvered 5er tailgate
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-23-2011, 07:33 PM
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i just saw Dp has stage 2.5's. i was planning on stage twos but what the heck why not 2.5's? lol same price!

2000 f 250 4x4. ccsb

just hit 218,000



38R with Turbo Master
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2011, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Can someone tell me how I can test my hpop? I.E., fuel pressure gauge, oil pressure gauge, etc-what gauge, where to install, what to look for, as well as any other way. I can have my mechanic check with a scanner for free or cheap also.

Took off good and hard one time last night in my 140 tune, and before I even got to the top of 3rd gear power cut back noticeably and ses light was triggered. Between watching my speed, rpms, boost, and pyro I wasn't exactly sure what boost I was at before the truck cut back. It was probably all over 25+, but not completely sure.

Of course it had to be due to overboost, or lack of enough hp oil, but I just don't recall it ever hitting an overboost code before I even topped third gear. I was givin' it what for though. (still haven't installed my brv or turbo)

87 f250 4wd LB ex cab 460 bored .60 edelbrock intake, towing cam glasspacks-6 mpg 8 on good day- my pride & joy once towed my '85 j-co j-crane 28' 5er

99 F250 7.3(engine stamped june of '99) 250K white ex cab lb, 2wd
jl audio slash 4ch amp, jl 8" sub, focal components front, infinity coax rear, 10 disc changer

-tymar intake, no muff
-bullydog egt, autometer boost
-f5 chip w/80t, 80e, 60t, 100, 140 extreme(140 is amazing!)
Garrett 38r
Chrome fender trim, 265 nitto terra graps, nerf bars, billet grille, '06 headlights, chrome door handles, louvered 5er tailgate
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