Tuning question - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1999-Up Super Duty or Excursion with 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Tuning question

Considering possibly ditching my DP F6 V1 tuner... I will be trading in my original stock injectors with 270K miles for a new set of 238cc/80% hybrids in a couple months. Looking at getting a Hydra tuner based on the wide availability of programming. My DP tuner has been great and their customer service has been awesome. Iím here in Georgia and live tuning with DP tuner would be convenient if needed. Iíve heard the new DP Tuner F6 V2 is open source, but that not many guys are writing programs for it. How well are the guys writing the programs for the hydra able to address any performance issues remotely through new programs? Iím after a lot more power with little smoke and the ability to tow heavy if needed. All the videos Iíve seen on YouTube of the hybrids mentioned above show guys dumping huge amounts of smoke which I do NOT want. Except in seldom occasions when I play around and goose it when no one is around.

2002 7.3L F-250 4R100 Crew Cab with 270k miles, 5" MBRP turbo back axle dump exhaust, 6637 intake, ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (pyro, tranny, boost, fuel pressure, HPOP pressure), AIH delete, 05-07 headlights/grille, clearance/running lights, F650 lower dash, DP-Tuner, Harpoon mod, Driven Diesel hutch and RR kit, dieselsite 203* thermo/billet housing, leveling kit on 35/12.50R20s, PMF duals, redhead steering, GTP38R (WW2), T500 HPOP, 250cc/200% FFD injectors.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-17-2017, 11:48 PM
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Engine tuning is easy. Trans tuning is what takes revisions.

Dynoproven used to tune the f6. But doesn?t anymore

Gearhead, swamps, php, SDK, Brian Jelich, dusty hogate(1023 diesel) all tune for the hydra. I?m sure I?m missing 2-3 too

I bought tunes from SDK for 160/30?s had them next morning with no revisions needed. Truck runs fantastic, shifts are perfect. Same with the php tunes. No issues first try.

Email revisions are so quick and easy.

If your pmr I?d recommend php. They can keep pmrs in the block 450+ hp.

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 07:00 PM
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Larger hybrids always tend to smoke more than A-codes. Mainly because the injection ratio is 5:1 in a hybrid and 7:1 in an a-code. So you get much better fuel atomization and a better burn with a-codes.

If you do any decent weight towing, I would stay away from Hybrids. I normally only recommend hybrids if you are looking for max power and do not mind the side effects from them (smoke, idle quality issues, etc).

Do you have a HP goal in mind? There may be a better injector for you.

Live tuning is the only way to ensure you are getting the absolute most out of your setup. Most do not need it, but the further you get away from stock power, the more you can benefit from it.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2017, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input yíall. Iíd like to have some room to grow, and the ability to tune down when needed to tow 12-15K lbs and not have outrageous EGTs. Iíd like to be over 500HP after swapping in some forged rods. To be honest I donít tow that often, but I donít want to be handicapped when I do.

2002 7.3L F-250 4R100 Crew Cab with 270k miles, 5" MBRP turbo back axle dump exhaust, 6637 intake, ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (pyro, tranny, boost, fuel pressure, HPOP pressure), AIH delete, 05-07 headlights/grille, clearance/running lights, F650 lower dash, DP-Tuner, Harpoon mod, Driven Diesel hutch and RR kit, dieselsite 203* thermo/billet housing, leveling kit on 35/12.50R20s, PMF duals, redhead steering, GTP38R (WW2), T500 HPOP, 250cc/200% FFD injectors.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2017, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTman View Post
Thanks for the input yíall. Iíd like to have some room to grow, and the ability to tune down when needed to tow 12-15K lbs and not have outrageous EGTs. Iíd like to be over 500HP after swapping in some forged rods. To be honest I donít tow that often, but I donít want to be handicapped when I do.
If you are not towing much and looking to get 500HP+, do those 238/80's and a BW S369SXE turbo and you will have a solid 500HP that you will be happy with.

You should be able to tow light loads pretty well with that. If you find yourself doing heavier loads, I would probably bump down to a 180/80 injector and sit around 450HP.
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2017, 02:18 PM
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T4 kit is definitely the best but there is a few options.

Kc turbos has a 63,66, and 69mm drop ins now. They are all based off s300 series turbos.

Basically a s300 compressor and turbine fitted into a drop In

I think a 238/80 would stay cooler than a 180/80. 180/80?s use a lot of HPO and really make some heat when trying to fully empty.

Of course your going to need studs, springs, built trans, fuel mods etc etc

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.

Last edited by blue99stroker; 10-27-2017 at 03:05 PM.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2017, 03:43 AM Thread Starter
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Iím good on fuel. Iíve done the driven diesel hutch and full regulated return mod. I was going to do a valve body, a trans shift kit, and a 6.0 trans cooler to get by on the stock transmission until she goes out. I have a GTP38R and everywhere Iíve read said itíll be great with 238/80s. How much could I comfortably tow with those injectors? I know a lot of variables play into that. I live just outside of Atlanta. Close to sea level and not any crazy hills.

2002 7.3L F-250 4R100 Crew Cab with 270k miles, 5" MBRP turbo back axle dump exhaust, 6637 intake, ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (pyro, tranny, boost, fuel pressure, HPOP pressure), AIH delete, 05-07 headlights/grille, clearance/running lights, F650 lower dash, DP-Tuner, Harpoon mod, Driven Diesel hutch and RR kit, dieselsite 203* thermo/billet housing, leveling kit on 35/12.50R20s, PMF duals, redhead steering, GTP38R (WW2), T500 HPOP, 250cc/200% FFD injectors.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2017, 12:59 PM
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stock trans doesnt like much over 350hp.

flat land towing is a breeze.

238/80s with a 38r would work well. did you get turbo blanaced after the wheel swap?

most 38r's dont last long after a billet wheel swpa and no balance

googs 38r just died at 12k miles after the wheel swap. ive seen atleast 20 cases.

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2017, 09:32 PM
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One of my body has that setup eith hydra and SDK tuning. That thing is amazing towing 15k. Egt is really good through the mountains no issues. Thats my plan in the near future

F350 2002 7.3

auto, 37/13.5/20 open country, Bushwaker cut-out flare, Bilstein 5100, Maxtow gauges (EGT, Trans temp, Boost), 4 inch diamond eye turbo back axel drop with BTM muffler, S&B intake, RR AIH plug, billet FPR with gold spring, CNCfab Sgt 1 HPOP, CNCfab HPOP line with cross over, CNCfab 4 line fuel kit, ARP heads stud, RDP plenum reinforcing insert, complete CAC intercooler boot kit, full engine seal and gasket kit, 360* turbo rebuilt, WWII, EGPV delete, dark blue CPS, Hydra chip with SDK tunes, Polished compressor manifold, HD coolant, 203* thermostat, Transgo HD kit, Energy suspension bushing kit, front and rear diff fully rebuilt with 4:88 gear ratio, Z36 powerstop heavy hauling brake kit, headlight relay mod, Fumoto drain valve AND STICKER

F350 2008 6.4 (sold)

TT 26' Springdale 2014
7x17 enclose trailer (shop) 2012
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2017, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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No I did not balance after the WW2 install. Iíve never heard of anyone doing that before. These things are supposed to come balanced from the manufacturer. Maybe defective compressor wheels? So if the turbo does take a crap on me, what risk is there to the motor?
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2017, 09:40 PM
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The 38R is know to fail when installing the billet wheel and not balancing it. If it fail, your engine is normally fine as all the part and pieces fall inside the intercooler

F350 2002 7.3

auto, 37/13.5/20 open country, Bushwaker cut-out flare, Bilstein 5100, Maxtow gauges (EGT, Trans temp, Boost), 4 inch diamond eye turbo back axel drop with BTM muffler, S&B intake, RR AIH plug, billet FPR with gold spring, CNCfab Sgt 1 HPOP, CNCfab HPOP line with cross over, CNCfab 4 line fuel kit, ARP heads stud, RDP plenum reinforcing insert, complete CAC intercooler boot kit, full engine seal and gasket kit, 360* turbo rebuilt, WWII, EGPV delete, dark blue CPS, Hydra chip with SDK tunes, Polished compressor manifold, HD coolant, 203* thermostat, Transgo HD kit, Energy suspension bushing kit, front and rear diff fully rebuilt with 4:88 gear ratio, Z36 powerstop heavy hauling brake kit, headlight relay mod, Fumoto drain valve AND STICKER

F350 2008 6.4 (sold)

TT 26' Springdale 2014
7x17 enclose trailer (shop) 2012
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 12:20 PM
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While each wheel may be balanced unto itself, the whole assy could be off balance. It's worth the $100 or so to get the assy balanced. Just think about how many rpm it spins at...

2000 F250 XLT 4x4 SC 7.3 w/Auto Tranny w/ TC L/U Sw & shift kit, 3 autometer gages, Super Zoodad, PHP Hydra chip, 4" DP/Exhaust w/dual 3.5" outlets, 275/70/18 Kumho AT51s on 8.5" rims, 08 AlumDiffCvr, Bilsteins, 31 row trans cooler, WW, BPV delete, AIH delete, hutch, harpoon and billet FPR (70psi), trans cooler bypass delete by accident, rear air bags, Jimmijammers.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 05:37 PM
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Yea the turbo is balanced with the factory wheel. But the ball bearing center sections can?t handle looser tolerances like the journal bearing turbos.

It?s usally several hundred dollars to balance a ball bearing turbo.

I?d recommend getting it rebalanced asap or put the stock wheel on.

And most of the turbos I?ve seen fail at the ww2 installed. It?s not the wheels fault. Just needs to be balanced

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate all of the input here, but I’m going to play devil’s advocate... how do y’all know it wasn’t due to an improper install? It could’ve been anything. It could be because a lot of people use an impact wrench to pop the wheel loose. It could be dirt/grime that clogged up the feed lines to the turbo. It could be people who don’t let the turbo properly cool before shutting off the truck and getting bearing siezure. The aftermarket wheels out there seem to be one of the most popular mods people do because they’re fairly cheap and have proven results. Therefore every kid on the block seems to be running aftermarket wheels. Therefore it seems reasonable that a lot of turbos out there that fail are going to be running aftermarket wheels; especially when you consider that the GTP38R is an aftermarket mod itself and it’s so easy to do the wheel upgrade when the turbo is out of the truck. I’m not saying y’all are wrong. Just some extra food for thought. If I put the stock wheel (which I still have) back on, there’s no way it would index back to the same orientation. So either way, I’d be looking at having to get the cartridge rebalanced if that is indeed the case. I don’t recall any notches on the ends of the shafts from balancing, but I have a lot of pictures from the install so I’ll have to go back and look. Maybe I’m driving on borrowed time here. I just don’t buy it completely yet. Has anyone actually talked to Garrett to find out how they balance their turbos?

2002 7.3L F-250 4R100 Crew Cab with 270k miles, 5" MBRP turbo back axle dump exhaust, 6637 intake, ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (pyro, tranny, boost, fuel pressure, HPOP pressure), AIH delete, 05-07 headlights/grille, clearance/running lights, F650 lower dash, DP-Tuner, Harpoon mod, Driven Diesel hutch and RR kit, dieselsite 203* thermo/billet housing, leveling kit on 35/12.50R20s, PMF duals, redhead steering, GTP38R (WW2), T500 HPOP, 250cc/200% FFD injectors.

Last edited by GTman; 10-30-2017 at 07:58 PM.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 09:09 PM
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And FYI the wheel swap voids the warranty.

The wheel swaps are very popular for the stock turbo. Where they typically don?t need a balance.

Not many folks swap a billet wheel in the the 38r. The stock wheel is actually very good. The billet wheel offers hardly any gains.

There is dyno sheets on dieselsites website. Only a 12hp gain on a 500hp truck.

It?s more than coincidence that the turbo failures happen after the swap.

Contact cncfab or Arundel Diesel and ask about balancing costs and wheel swaps on 38r?s

I?m just trying to save you from having a 1500 dollar paper weight.

99.5 f250 7.3 4x4- 277k FF 160/30, Hydra w/SDK Tunes, S&B CAI, 4" Exhaust, Van turbo w/Riffraff Billet wheel, Autometer Gauges, Built Trans, Trucool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.


Dads-2000 f250 7.3 4x4- 118k K&N Intake w/Amsoil Filter, 4" Exhaust, Autometer Gauges, Superchip 1705 (Tow Safe), BD Billet Wheel, TruCool Max, 08 Tow Mirrors.

Last edited by blue99stroker; 10-30-2017 at 09:11 PM.
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