Another 7.3 rough idle till warm post. IPR? CPS? Injectors? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
1999-2007 General Questions General questions related to 1999-2007 Super Duty trucks. If it doesn't fit the other categories, post it here. Gas engine discussion that pertains to all models is allowed. Specific gas engine questions should use the Gas Engines forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 20
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Another 7.3 rough idle till warm post. IPR? CPS? Injectors?

Hello. I've read numerous threads already about this issue but feel like a may be missing something. I have a 2003 f350 7.3 with 209000 miles on it. I'm in Alaska its about 50 or 60 degrees at the moment. Tach doesn't move when cranking. The truck will not start unless plugged in. Rough idle when it does start until it gets to operating temp then runs fine. No change when I unplug the ICP and looks to have been replaced before. Oil change ~2000 miles ago with 15w40 and oil level look good. Changed fuel filter and filled the tank up and put Lucas injector cleaner and half a court of automatic transmission fluid in with it to clean injectors. Passenger side valve cover has had new pluggin. This truck is giving me a headache. Please help. Thanks in advance.
Whiskey_helpz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 03:48 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
klhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 24,717
My Photos: (180)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Your '03 won't move the tach when cranking. That only happens on '01 and earlier trucks.

If you have to plug in to start at 50-60 degrees, you need to look into your Glow Plug system. Check the Hard/No-Start Link in my signature. It should fire right off at well below 50, without plugging in. The glow plugs should still be active after the engine is running for a bit, with length depending on oil temperature.

Rough idle may be because of worn injectors, but don't condemn them yet. They should last longer than your current mileage. I would avoid putting too much in the way of additives in your fuel. Maybe something like PowerService or Standyne, but ATF probably won't help clean your injectors. It's possible that your injectors have reduced clearance on the armature plates.

If you're in the Anchorage area, we could hook it up to AutoEnginuity and see what's up. An injector buzz test with a cold engine takes just a few minutes and would give you some indication of injector condition.

Welcome to TheDieselStop

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
), AIS,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
regulated return,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
klhansen is offline  
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 20
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'm in the Fairbanks area sadly. Could it be an electrical issue such as a short or bad sensor? Weak HPOP?
Whiskey_helpz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 11:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Justin,Texas, Republic of TEXAS (USA)
Posts: 5,274
My Photos: (1)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The electrical issue to first resolve is checking the glow plug relay system. The big relay behind and the passenger side of fuel filter housing should have less than .5V if you put DC voltmemeter leads on the 5/16" posts (1/2 nut) with cold engine and then watch voltmeter when someone turns ignition on and the glow plugs are powered through the relay. If the voltage difference is more than .5V then the relay is bad and glow plugs are not working. If the really checks good then it might be a good idea to get compression checked. I have diagnosed a bunch of 7.3 poor cold start and poor idle as dusted engines from poorly fitted air filters and/or cracked or misfitted hoses from air filter to turbo. The turbo compressor blades that are visible with the air inlet hose off turbo will often tell the story. The blades should have a blunt forward edge and the tip of the blades would be a sharp 90 degree where blade edge is at turbo housing. When the blades cut through unfiltered dirty air the blade edge gets sharp and worn and the 90 degree cut of the end of each blade gets rounded off. The sensors on the engine are injection control pressure on the LH cylinder head at front top, oil temp sensor, and the exhaust back pressure sensor. ICP sensors are known failures but usually poor running will also cause the sensor to leak oil into electrical connector. Oil temp is not a drivability issue cause as it is the sensor used to shut down the back pressure control damper and fast idling when the oil temp gets warm with warm engine. Not a cause of rough idle. Cam position sensor down to the right and above (passenger side) crank pulley can cause start and idle quality problems but not usually temp related. The cam position sensor was subject to a recall and likely has been replaced but I have seen the update ones installed 10+ years back fail.

2015 F350 Platinum Max Tow What a beast with the 4.30 gears!
2006 F450 CC Hauler bed 4x2 6.0 L 6.0 auto, Lariat, 4.30 r/a, SCT, 4in exh. 103K New heads to repair diesel in coolant, 148K.
2006 F350 Lariat CC Dually 4X2, 6.0 auto 4.10 LS, SCT, airbags, 4 in. exh. 154K Rebuilt engine to repair damage from burned piston. One head to fix fuel in oil problem.
36 feet on the floor Elite/Outlaw LQ horse trailer.
35+5 foot double tandem axle flatbed trailer.
36 foot double tandem axle flatbed trailer
36 foot Platinum 6 horse LQ, side load, full width back tack
2003 EB Expedition 171K (no engine repairs, gas burners are the new longevity leaders)
2004 Volvo V70R AWD-high miler in fleet, 253K (no engine repairs) Hail totaled it but I kept it. Looks like a golf ball now.
Suzuki Carry KEI truck, 660cc 3 cyl DOHC EFI 4X4 5 speed RHD. Sort of a Smart Car sized pickup. Eats Gators and Mules for lunch.
jimmy is offline  
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 20
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
When you turn the key you can hear the glow plug relay click. I don't know about the glow plugs but the relay seems good. The previous owner said he had the relay and glow plugs changed around 6 months ago. I will look at the turbo and see if I can see any wear on the blades.
Whiskey_helpz is offline  
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 02:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1,140
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
if you have a digital volt meter you can check the glow plug relay and you can ohm out the glow plugs. you are going to have to actually test some things rather than going off hearing.

03 F350 7.3L Auto CC LB Dually 410's (LS Rear)

PHP/Beans, 1023, SDK, GH tuned/250/100 FF inj's, Irate T4 w/369SXE, Swamps HVHF IDM, BTS Tranny, Strictly Diesel complete fuel system with RR & FB delete.
Autometer Nexus Guages, 4"MBRP, DieselSite Coolant filtration system/billet housing/HP X-Over line. Donaldson Blue(6637)/AFE BHAF, RR Boots/ Billet Plenums, ('06) 26 row Tranny & PS Cooler, LarryB's Genuine Denso Starter
INFRNL is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 20
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Update. Replaced the CPS today. No change. Also scanned for codes and nothing came up
Whiskey_helpz is offline  
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 06:52 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
ArcticDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 3,704
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Follow the instructions in Post 2 from KLHanson to test your GP system.

Always replace electrical components with Motorcraft.

Not all scanners will read Ford codes.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Stancor GPR. Walker BTM. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.
ArcticDriver is offline  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 02:35 PM
gdp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 116
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
My 2cts is try changing the engine oil temp sensor, $20 from Motorcraft, EOT sensor DY-961 or Part #:*12A648 and a 5 minute job. I fought the opposite problem of surging when the engine warmed up. Replaced the EBV, ICP, cleaned the EBP twice. Spent hundreds of $$ and several months on it and still had the problem. Then someone on this forum mentioned the EOT and the truck has run perfect since. It may not be your problem but it's cheap and easy to try. Engine oil temp is an input on glow plug operation.

2002 F-250 CC Lariat 7.3 diesel, 170,000 miles
gdp is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 03:32 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
klhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 24,717
My Photos: (180)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdp View Post
My 2cts is try changing the engine oil temp sensor, $20 from Motorcraft, EOT sensor DY-961 or Part #:*12A648 and a 5 minute job. I fought the opposite problem of surging when the engine warmed up. Replaced the EBV, ICP, cleaned the EBP twice. Spent hundreds of $$ and several months on it and still had the problem. Then someone on this forum mentioned the EOT and the truck has run perfect since. It may not be your problem but it's cheap and easy to try. Engine oil temp is an input on glow plug operation.
I doubt that the EOT sensor is the problem, but it's a possibility. An easy check is to unplug it and try starting. Without seeing a signal from the EOT sensor, the PCM will default to "cold oil" while starting, and "hot oil" when running. EOT is an input on injector timing, to compensate for cold oil conditions, which tends to reduce the pressure delivered to the injectors.
The EOT is an input to GP operation - if the oil is hot enough, the GP relay won't be activated at all. I recall that the temp is ~140F.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
), AIS,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
regulated return,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
klhansen is offline  
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 20
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Update. Changed the GPR and no change. Once the key is turned on then I am getting 0 to .1V on the big posts on the GPR. That should mean that the relay itself is working correctly? The glow plugs themselves should be getting power but may not necessarily be working?
Whiskey_helpz is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 20
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Once plugged in it will start right up but had a little shake to it. Almost like a miss. But if I drive it down the road and get on the throttle a little then it smooths right out. It doesn't even have to be warm. Possibly excess fuel on the cylinders being burned off?
Whiskey_helpz is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:29 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
klhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 24,717
My Photos: (180)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
If you're getting that little voltage drop across the two big lugs on the GPR, that could easily mean that most of your glow plugs are burnt out. Check the Hard/no start link in my signature for how to check the glow plugs. A glow plug relay may pull in, but not make good connection. That would be indicated by a high voltage drop between the two posts while activated.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
), AIS,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
regulated return,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
klhansen is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 20
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Shouldn't I be getting around that much voltage?
Whiskey_helpz is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 10:50 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
klhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 24,717
My Photos: (180)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Measuring the voltage between the two posts is dependent on the resistance of the contacts on the relay. But it also depends on how much load is on the circuit (how many glow plugs are working). A different test is to measure between the post with the brown and yellow wires on it and a ground point on the engine or the battery ground post. With that measurement, you can tell for sure if the relay is making contact if you get close to battery voltage. If none of your glow plugs are working, the measurement will be the same as battery voltage because there will be no current running through the circuit.

You can also measure the resistance across each glow plug by disconnecting the outside valve cover connector. That procedure is outlined in the thread linked below.

First truck -- 1929 Model A Ford pickup, restored from ground up. Wish I still had it!
'99.5 F250 PSD Supercab LB 4x4, ZF-6 w/SB Con OFE, 3.73LS, Boost & pyro gauges, Swamps S175/146 injectors, DP 80 HP Econo PCM (classic version
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
), AIS,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
regulated return,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
klhansen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > 1999-2007 General Questions

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome