97 truck is dead again - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Power Strokes 1994-1997 General Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the Power Stroke engine in 1994 through 1997 models.

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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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97 truck is dead again

A few months ago, I replaced the IDM, and the truck had been running perfectly. Last week I replaced both batteries because they were getting old and slow to crank and finally just wouldnít crank. I drove just one day after replacing them and it ran perfect. Parked it on level ground and the next morning, dead.
I immediately suspected the IDM because it is not fuel, as there is 25 psi like always at the bowl (I replaced the Schrader valve with a fuel gauge). Had another IDM sent to me, replaced it and much to my surprise itís still dead, with not even a hint of firing.
Iíve done the usual: checked all fuses, unplugged ICP, tach reads about 200 while cranking, has a new Ford CPS, WTS comes on and goes off as usual, itís still dead. Only thing I havenít done is checked oil at HPOP, because the Allen head bolt stripped for the right size wrench, so Iím going to try tapping a Torx male socket and see if it comes out, and replace it with new one. I doubt that ití is that, because oil has always been full, and with all the cranking I have done, it wouldíve filled back up, and this happened after a full day of driving, and last week, it sat for over a week, and after I replaced the batteries, it started in les than 3 seconds of cranking, like it always does.
Iím going to try swapping around the IDM relay, but I canít remember which one it is, because it still sounds electric to me. I know there is fuel in the bowl and fuel pressure, and mechanical problems donít show up like that, from 100 to 0 in one day.
The truck is 100% stock and other than these episodes, always reliable.
What else am I missing. Any help will be appreciated.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 11:50 PM
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Is the tach reading while you are cranking and does it sound like it is cranking over at a good speed?

Have you checked the battery voltage?

I agree it sounds electrical, perhaps check the cps connection.

On the HPOP reservoir, if you have a Harbor freight close by pick up some left handed drill bits and then use a reversible drill. A large bit will bite into the plug and spin it right out.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Bugman, I posted you a PM.
I hope this can help others with the sane problem.
The problem was the IDM relay. It is the number 2 in the fuse box. I replaced it with the one that was in the number 4 socket, which I believe is for a trailer tow package, and the engine fired right up, as if nothing had happened.
It feels good when it goes from 0 to 100% by just replacing a relay.
I donít know if a scan with AE or any of the other code readers would detect a faulty relay, but when the symptoms sound electrical rather than mechanical, that relay has to be kept in mind.
Thanks
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 06:55 PM
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I've attached the Power distribution diagram pages that might help you. Cheers!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Power Distribution pg11.pdf (201.6 KB, 29 views)
File Type: pdf Power Distribution pg14.pdf (225.3 KB, 24 views)

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Patrick.
I am going to try to figure this thing out.
I just checked the voltage at the IDM relay socket, and there is always 12 volts at contact 30 even with the key Off, and when the key is On, there is also 12 volts at contact 86, which is the way it should be for the IDM should be energized. But itís not starting.
So I have to discard the relay issue and try to find the problem elsewhere. All the signals are ok, like fuel pressure, ICP, CPS , WTS, RPM, so what else could be causing what appears to be, the injectors not firing. The IDM is also new.
What else could I check?
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
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Hey guys, if the CPS were bad or erratic, would it show the tach moving while cranking.
Do the Apps such as Torque tell you if the CPS is bad?
Since what I have sounds electrical because it either runs perfect or doesnít run at all, no in between, and I have discarded the IDM relay, the IDM itself, fuse 22 and all the rest, ICP off and on, good fuel pressure, oil in HPOP, I have a fairly new OEM CPS, could it be erratic and work off and on?
What else am I missing?
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 09:33 PM
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Here are some more diagrams. IDM will have power at IDM connector pin 14 when the PCM Power relay shuts and then pulls the IDM relay shut. The power out of the IDM is high voltage DC, so don't go probing those wires! Cheers!
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File Type: pdf IDM Connector Pinout.pdf (313.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: pdf Engine Controls pg1.pdf (253.0 KB, 17 views)
File Type: pdf Engine Controls pg4.pdf (259.0 KB, 14 views)

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Sometimes I read posts that have no conclusion, so I thought Iíd post this in case anybody was wondering how this problem got resolved.
I had tried all the usual but nothing worked, so I ordered an OBDII diagnostic scanner and downloaded the Forscan App to see if I could monitor any of the parameters while the engine was cranking, as it was deader than dead. Particularly, I wanted to see the HPOP pressure, to make sure that the engine could start, as unplugging the ICP will make the ECM go to default pressure, but what if there is actually no oil and no pressure at all?
So when I got it from Amazon, I went to the truck and plugged it into the OBDII port, and got the software ready, and as soon as I cranked it, the engine started in less than two seconds like it always did. So I drove it home immediately because it was in a different location, and when I got home, I looked at the gauges and ran the cylinder balance test, and everything was good, no codes accumulated or while running, and it has not failed to start again since that day.
So I donít know what actually caused the truck to not start at all for a period of about a month, and then all of a sudden start running again as smoothly as ever like if nothing had happened. I always thought that it was an electrical problem, but now I have no way of knowing what actually caused it because it starts immediately when I turn the key. Thanks to all specially to Patrick and Bugman for their input.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2019, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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Well, Iíd like to revive this thread because I still donít feel that I am in the clear. The truck had been running fine from the time in May or early June when I got the OBDII scanner, and then I left for a long vacation. Came back and the truck started right up like always, in less in two seconds of cranking. Drove about 20 miles in city traffic that day, with several stops along the way, and at the end of the day, I parked it in the same spot. The following day it was dead again. So it starts right up after 20 days of inactivity, and then the following day it wonít start. What the heck is going on?. I checked the oil levels, and they were both fine, if maybe a little dirty.
So I hooked up the OBDII scanner to see if I could read the data stream while cranking the engine, and I donít think itís very accurate or stable but the HPOP pressure only read about 200 while cranking. I have over 30 pounds of fuel pressure, and it does the buzz test without fault. So I decided to change the oil in the pan and in the HPOP, to see if it made any difference. It did not start right away but it started the following day, and between yesterday and today, I drove it about 30 miles in city traffic, and it ran perfect, but I really donít know if it will start tomorrow. Iím going to try to upload a couple of pictures that I took of the data stream at idle and at about 2000 RPM to see if any of you can spot anything that is not right.
I canít find a way to load up the pictures from my iPad, so I will load them from my computer a bit later. Thanks in advance for your comments.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2019, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-22-2019, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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the 10th line is the RPM. the first picture is at idle and the second at about 1900 RPM
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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Patrick, I hope you can see these pictures and tell me if you see something suspicious.
Also, since the HPOP pressure at idle is about 580 psi, I am assuming that at during cranking at around 200 RPM or less, it would be well below the 500 minimum that it needs to run.
Question: is there a function of the ECM that operates the IPR at a much higher duty cycle to allow more pressure to develop while cranking?
If not, how does the engine start with lower HPOP pressure?
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-29-2019, 12:31 PM
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What was the IPR% during the runs? You should be able to monitor the ICP and IPR% during cranking as well. I'd have to go look, but it seems like the reference voltage should be closer to 5V. The IPR% should be around the following:

KOEO: 14%
Crank to Start: Less than 30% typically with no leaks and engine starts
Idle: 8%-16% @ NOT
Full Load: Less than 50%with no ICP system leaks
No Start (max command): 54%

So the ECM will increase the IPR% to raise the system pressure to start, but only to 54%.

Cheers!

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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Patrick, here are a few more images of my truck running perfect, and then what happens when I crank it and it won't start.
You remember that I have had this problem off and on without any obvious pattern for some time, and it's driving me crazy, because while it would run perfect one day, I did not know if the next day it would start.
From seeing how it runs normal, with good HPOP pressure under all conditions, and then how it is not registering hardly any pressure 274.8 psi while cranking, with the IPR at maximum duty cycle of about 54%, my conclusion is that my IPR valve is sticking, and even though it is commanded to open by the PCM, sometimes it will open and let pressure into the cylinder heads and start perfectly, and sometimes it won't. That is what makes it start and run perfect sometimes, and not at all other times.
What do you think?
In the first picture you see what happens when it starts normally in less than two seconds. The IPR barely moves to maybe at about 20% and it settles back down to 15% and the ICP goes from 0 psi and it spikes up to close to 1400 psi and it settles back down to 671.
Second picture is idling steady at 629 RPM,
Third is accelerating shifting gears as can be seen by the RPM's
Fourth is golding steady at about 60 mph and 2000 RPM
Fifth is hard acceleration from 60-75 mph and then letting go of the throttle.
I will pst one more for the next time I tried to start it that it would not start, and just cranked with IPR at maximum and ICP at only 274 psi
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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This is cranking but no start. ICP sensor is new and I have tried unplugging it, but it won't start because even though it reads enough pressure, there is actually no pressurized oil in the rails.
The graphs are not in the same position as before because I removed some of them, so ICP and IPR are side by side, and RPM is right below.
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