Daily summer stumble - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Power Strokes 1994-1997 General Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the Power Stroke engine in 1994 through 1997 models.

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  • 1 Post By rsrace
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Daily summer stumble

For the past week I have lost power/rough idle consistently about 1 mile from home - to the point where I can pull into the same lot and wait for the engine to warm (from ambient 70*F). It almost feels like a UCVH went or ran a tank dry - but then everything returns to great the rest of the day!? I haven't noticed smoke but in my haste to troubleshoot with a scanner, I also haven't got out to see the tailpipe...certainly no big cloud.

I have no codes and after it warms up it runs great the rest of the day - plenty of power. I ran the KOEO and KOER tests on a SnapOn reader - without getting any codes. Thinking it might be the EOT sender, even though it seemed to read okay, I replaced it without change (HPOP reservoir was full). Made sure fuel tanks were full as the first time it happened I was less than 1/4 tank and thought I might have sucked air going up a hill.

As background, about 2 months ago I replaced both fuel tanks, fuel pick-ups, filter, fuel pump (was weeping), and all the o-rings on the fuel bowl since most were original (did a thorough clean of the bowl as well)...fuel system is clean. I do not have a EBPV anymore - removed pedestal completely with turbo replacement 3 years ago. It has run great since doing the above work.

When it stumbled this morning EOT=31*C, IAT=23*C, ICP 575-590, MAP 14PSI, InjPressReg=10-12%. At about 43* EOT everything smoothed out and I resumed my commute without problems like normal. By the time I was at work (post freeway) EOT=71*C which matches my aftermarket coolant gauge of 160*F.

Since it doesn't seem to occur any time but first thing in the morning and "goes away" consistently so I haven't tried CPS or dug into the UCVH (no burnt connectors visible or burnt smell).

I searched the forums and cannot find anyone having this trouble "cold" in the summer except folks with EBPV's...so I am at a loss as to what to explore next short of throwing parts at it (PCM?). Anyone have such an experience?

Thanks in advance for any experience and wisdom!

Randy

F250HD 1997 4x4 PS-Diesel Crewcab, MT,
Ron's 1.00 turbo, EBPV-delete, BD downpipe, felineless, Baby Swamps, TS Performance chip, pillar pod/pyro-boost-temp, 245k miles.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 04:03 PM
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Yes, I'm having a very similar issue. It just started after I got back from a trip to Nashville from Waco and back. I had no issues on my trip and it was about 1,800 miles round trip. I just recently installed a re-manufactured transmission from Ford. I did the EVBP delete and installed a 3 inch down pipe and 4 inch exhaust while putting the transmission in. Like I said though, no issues until last week. Like you though, it seems fine once the engine is at operating temp. I'm going to change the oil, filter, and fuel filter first as it acts like it is running out of fuel. I can barely get over 40 mph.

Hopefully someone will have some advice.
Cliff
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Cliff,

Do a buzz test - mine showed a problem with one of the cylinders. It turned out to be the IDM in my case - I could prove it by swapping in/out with a spare. But lots of possibilities in that circuit including the undercover valve harness (bad connection due to burnt connectors), bad injector solenoids, chaffed wiring, etc.

Also check oil level - I found mine to be quite low (down a gallon and I never lose oil)...leading me to replace injector o-rings and, since I am still losing oil, I suspect I have an injector that is failing internally...I should have just done them from the start while I had them all out. 20/20 hindsight.

Randy
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 08:13 PM
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Hi Randy,

Thanks for the info. I will try it. I had the issue again today. No power and could barely go 40 mph again. Until it warmed up. Once it was warm, it ran fine.

Cliff
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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Not to add more concern but per Swamps Diesel's injector diagnostic article (https://swampsmotorsports.com/files/...Diagnostic.pdf) stumbling when cold also may be an injector worn poppet valve. If your injectors are old, you may be headed down the replacement path. But check the IDM and ring out the circuits with a multimeter while you have the IDM connector off - just to verify you don't have open circuits or shorts (although I'd expect these to act up when warm as well). My IDM only acted up while cold which is unusual I am told.

Randy
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 08:40 PM
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Well, I checked the oil yesterday and it was not on the dipstick at all. Not sure how low it actually was, but I changed the oil anyway. I've never been low on oil and have never even checked it. I bought the truck with 50,000 miles on it and it had been meticulously cared for. I continued the care and like I said, it has never been low. It now has only 145,000 miles on it.

I drove it after the oil change and it seemed fine. My wife drove it today and said it didn't give her any problems either. I don't have a scanner or any way to do the buzz test yet, so I'll have to wait until I get something. I've ordered a wifi OBD II connector so I can download and use ForScan software. Keeping my fingers crossed that it just needed an oil change. I use Delo 400 15-W40 oil. I have since I've had it. That was what the previous owner used so I stuck with it.

Thanks for the continued information.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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It is likely that your injector o-rings are toast if you're down that much oil. Watch your levels closely - I was burning a gallon in 1500 miles and others have seen much higher rates...with no visible smoke. You might see oil in the fuel bowl too (confirming sign), although I did not. I swapped my external o-rings and rate of consumption improved but still losing some with no leaks on a truck that never used oil. Due to some other injector signs, I am putting in new injectors later this month (Swamps has 10% off right now)...wish I had done the injectors the first time!
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 06:14 PM
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Cfed,
Do you know for certain that your oil level was full on the dipstick at the last oil change? If you never check it then its tough to identify if its losing.

Now that you topped it again you can verify its actually losing oil.

The DELO has changed with the CK-4 standard.
Can you take a photo of the bottle or post exactly which 15-40 you are using? It will have three letters.


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Stancor GPR. Walker BTM. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 09-19-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 11:25 AM
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Yes, when I change the oil, I always verify it is topped off before I finish. I've never had it use or lose oil before, so I've never really checked it between oil changes. I will now, for sure. I am using Delo 400 SDE in 15W40.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfed View Post
Yes, when I change the oil, I always verify it is topped off before I finish. I've never had it use or lose oil before, so I've never really checked it between oil changes. I will now, for sure. I am using Delo 400 SDE in 15W40.
That particular oil is not on the Ford approved list. Some owners try to use Ford approved oils:

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...SSM2C171F1.pdf

It is pretty low in zinc at 800-ppm vs 1000+ in the old CJ-4 oil you have always used and in current approved oils. This is a dual rated SN (gasoline) oil and the rule since CK-4 is to stick with single-rated diesel only oils.

Not that this accounts for your rapid oil loss but it could contribute. The dual-rated oils are designed to offer improved fuel economy and one way to accomplish this might also result in it burning off quicker. I am not suggesting you don’t have o-ring issues but only that this is not the same DELO you have always used.


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Stancor GPR. Walker BTM. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 09-22-2019 at 12:31 PM.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 05:27 PM
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When we first bought our trucks 23 years ago all Ford did was to recommend a oil rating and not anything specific.

I have ran Valvoline All Fleet 15w40 for a number of years before switching to Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 for the last 15 or so years. Neither is on the list of approved oils.

I guess that Ford doesn't like to recommend a oil that is recommended by Cummins and ran in the Cummins engines.

But as for the list I believe that it came out when Ford came out with the 6.7 engine. But I could be wrong.

96 F250 PS XLT 4X4 long box, 5sp,4.10, manual hubs,pyro+boost guages, Dark Toumaline, add a leaf, Dale's TYMAR, and HX hose, downpipe, coolant filter, Luk clutch
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 10:26 PM
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I think the latest API switch to CK-4 is quite a leap from earlier changes and the goal had nothing to do with making a better oil for our old 7.3’s.

From everything I have read, the new dual-rated oils are no friend to the 7.3 but that is just my opinion. Although I have not read any reports that contradict my opinion.

I just wanted to let CFED know that his new DELO is nothing like what he had been using all these past years.


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Stancor GPR. Walker BTM. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
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2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 10:45 PM
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I don't think that the Delco oil would make that much of a difference in a old 7.3 engine, even the new blend. The newer engines it might.

However some find different oils work better in their engines. Now if it is seat of the pants type of thing or what. Look at the owners that swear by Rotella and then in the same post you will see those that do nothing but swear at it.
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96 F250 PS XLT 4X4 long box, 5sp,4.10, manual hubs,pyro+boost guages, Dark Toumaline, add a leaf, Dale's TYMAR, and HX hose, downpipe, coolant filter, Luk clutch
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
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I don't think that the Delco oil would make that much of a difference in a old 7.3 engine, even the new blend. The newer engines it might.

However some find different oils work better in their engines. Now if it is seat of the pants type of thing or what. Look at the owners that swear by Rotella and then in the same post you will see those that do nothing but swear at it.
CJ-4 oils all had similar additives so choosing a personal favorite by seat of the pants was comparing apples to apples. On that note, I had one truck that sounded better with Rotella T-6 and another that sounded better on DELO 400 LE...so I ran each until I switched to DELVAC-1 which they both liked...Haha.

I can appreciate the opinion that simply because a CK-4 only rated oil has not petitioned to be on the list does not exclude it from being a good oil for the Powerstroke.

But I spend far too much time reading about oils and the API and there are some real differences between a CK-4 oil not on the "approved" list and this new dual-rated "Fleet Oil" (CK-4/SN). Dual-rated oils are NO longer HDEO and I would rather run a HDEO in my 7.3 Powerstrokes.

To the best of my knowledge, no dual-rated "Fleet" non-HDEO is on the Ford Approved list.

Since the poster, CFED, had mentioned that he and the PO have been using the same oil for 145,000 miles in his truck...DELO 400, I just wanted to let him know that the SDE blend is nothing like the old LE that he had been using for all these years. The SDE is not a "Heavy-Duty Engine Oil (HDEO)". Alot of guys have real lives and don't spend hours reading about lubricants, so I just thought I would give him a heads up that the SDE may start to burn more quickly than his earlier LE as it gets more miles on it.


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2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


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2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Stancor GPR. Walker BTM. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 09-23-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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