Brand new glow plugs fried? - Page 2 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
Power Strokes 1994-1997 Upgrades and Aftermarket Upgrading or adding OEM or aftermarket equipment to your 1994-1997 Ford F-Series with Power Stroke engine.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2016, 08:27 PM
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For checking the injector/glowplug wiring: From each valvecover gasket connection's outermost pins (2 per connector) to ground you should get 0.1 to 2 ohms (indicates good plug and wiring). From each valvecover gasket connection's center pin to each immediately adjacent pin, you should get around 3 ohms (indicates good injector solenoid and wiring). You should not get any continuity from any of the outer pins to the 3 inner pins (indicates no shorts between injector and glowplug wiring). You should also get 0 to 1 ohms from each of the external harness connectors outer pins back to the Glowplug Relay's large terminal on the GP side (indicates good wiring from external connections back to the relay).

To check the glowplug relay (GPR), measure the voltage drop across the GPR's large terminals. While the GPR is active (up to 1.5 to 2 minutes after the key is turned to Wait-to-Start) put your meter leads on the large terminals (one lead on one large terminal and the other lead on the other large terminal). The measures how much voltage is being "lost" across the relay. A reading of 0.3V or more indicates a bad relay.

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2016, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your help folks.

Snow, I watch some of the Utube stuff that came up on your google search.

I think I've learned that my valve cover wiring is suspect.

When I put the Ohm meter to the GP points in the valve cover, I get no continuity to the neg battery terminal on any of the passenger side gps.

I didn't try the driver side, as the plug didn't want to cooperate, and I didn't want to risk cracking it.

Can anyone direct me to a reliable, value oriented vendor for getting these?

I've got a buddy who is going to help me do this next weekend.

I think I should probably have a new set of GPs on hand just in case, but it seems likely that my new ones are still good.

The guy who did this work for me, knows that he got Motorcraft GPs from NAPA; he does not remember if they were the ones you guys have suggested.

Anything else I should be replacing while the valve covers are off AGAIN?
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-23-2016, 09:59 PM
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The first thing that I would do is to pull the valve cover off and take a look at the wiring and then measure the glow plugs with out having the harness connected.

For parts I would go with Motorcraft only. Parts stores stock Dorman gaskets and wire harnesses but this is one thing that you only want to do once. K-Manns Parts stock everything that you would need if you decide to go with Motorcraft and their prices are not that bad.

If you pull one of the valve covers you may be able to eliminate the costly gaskets and perhaps the plugs themselves if it is the wire harness. Other than that I would purchase the glow plug replacement kit that they have for $369.00 which has everything in it.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Tore into this last night with a mechanic friend.

I bought new glow plugs and the valve cover gasket/ wire harnesses ahead of time.

Found 7 of 8 glow plugs dead. (eighth one might not have been plugged in tight enough to have been engaging at all.

gaskets and wiring looked and tested great, but I put the new ones in just to be safe.

He did the first side, while I did the driver's side after watching him start.

The hardest part, aside from the bolts in the rear that were hard to reach, was pushing the plug wire back onto the glow plugs.

Got it back together and realized the signal to the relay was not shutting off, at least not always, hence the brand new burnt plugs.

Seems like an obvious thing to test, but maybe that isn't SOP?

It was getting late, and diagnosing the cause of that problem was not on the agenda.

We rigged a switch to the control wire, so I can cut power to the relay once its started.

So far so good. I'm getting a Momentary switch that requires holding down, to ensure it cannot be left on.

I am wondering how I would diagnose the issue that is leaving the control wire to the relaly hot, after WTS goes off.

I am also thinking that I should just bypass that power source entirely and make the power to the relay fully manual via the monetary switch.

Any reason not to do that?

I know the GPs cycle on and off while warming up. How important is that? How long and often would I hold them on to mimic that?

What does it accomplish aside form reducing emissions? (nothing reduces this thing's emissions, yet it passed with no issues.)

Thanks,

Dave
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 09:39 PM
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Dave,

The GPR can cycle ON & OFF for atleast 90 seconds after the Wait To Start light turns off and the engine is running.

It does this by design.

Are you sure this is not all that was happening?


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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 10:09 PM
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Just as a FYI the wait to start light is just a idiot light and really has nothing to do with the glow plugs or the glow plug relay, and is just there to make you wait a while on cold starts.

Mr. Driver, it is my understanding that the old 6.9 engine would cycle the glow plugs on and off for a while but on the computer controlled Power Stroke engine it doesn't cycle. But the PCM will keep the glow plug relay energized for up to 2 minutes to burn off carbon that is built up on the plugs during cold starts.

Now back to Mr. Franks, if the relay is staying energized longer than 2 minutes there could be a number of problems. One could be that it is the wrong relay. There were a number of parts store relays that were sold as a direct replacement relay for our engines that were case grounded and would stay on as long as the key was on. Another problem could be a grounded signal wire from the PCM which would keep the relay on as long as the key is turned on. The other could be a bad PCM that is constantly sending out the ground signal to the relay.

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-02-2016, 12:42 AM
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@DFrank. What Mr Bugman says based on MY^^^^I had thought early 7.3s were still like my old 6.9.

When you have a chance, you might list your vehicle specs in the Signature.

With 8 new GPs you should now be able to go skiing ;-)


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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-02-2016, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure the relay is good. If kill the control wire powering it, (which is what I've interrupted with my switch) the relay shuts the power side off.)

The control wire does sometimes quit sending signal to the relay, but it was still on after what seemed like three minutes, in the shop warm.

How long is it OK for the GPs to stay on? I don't want to burn out another set.

The first set was not Motorcraft, but Autolite, I believe, and they all got fried quickly, I assume form being left on.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I think control wire to the relay is at least sporadically staying powered up. I can check this safely now that I can bypass that and ensure that the GPs are off.

It is a 96 F350, Crew cab, 4x4 with 280K miles. I will add that to the sig line later.

Thanks,
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 12:01 AM
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The relay will have 12 volts to it as long as the key is turned on, that wire is what I believe that you have put your switch in. The relay is activated when it gets its ground from the PCM.

So the wire that you are saying is the control wire is always hot with the key on and that is normal.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Bugman.

So if what you say is true, what turns the glow plugs off, and how long is it ok for the to stay on, without risking another burn out.

'96 F350 Crew Cab.

7.3 Power Stroke

LWB, 4X4

Dedicated for use with an older Lance Cabover camper
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 08:56 PM
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The PCM will remove the ground it provided (at pin 101) and the GPR contacts will switch back to OPEN. The glowplugs will stay on for up to 2 minutes after the key is turned to WTS. Cheers!

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Feeley View Post
The PCM will remove the ground it provided (at pin 101) and the GPR contacts will switch back to OPEN. The glowplugs will stay on for up to 2 minutes after the key is turned to WTS. Cheers!
Thanks Patrick. So assuming my PCM is sending the wrong message, is there any reason not to just run it how I have it?

I am not actually sure if I have interrupted the ground side or the hot side, though I do know how to test for that. I think I am on the hot side.

Seems like I should remove the PCM ground, and run my own switched ground. Then I'd have full control over the glow plugs and just need to know how long I should be running them, and whether it is important to keep cycling on warm up and how to mimic what it wants.

I only drive this rig for weekend camping trips, so its not like I need to go warm it up every day, I just need it to be able to start when not plugged in at the end of a ski day in the mountains. At home I'll usually plug it in for planned trips, and then not even use the GPs, right?

The switch I got is rated for 3 amps @12Vdc. It is a momentary switch, so I can't leave them on by mistake. Any reason this is not sufficient? (this is to replace the on/ off button that is on it now, that could be left on any mistake)

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Dedicated for use with an older Lance Cabover camper

Last edited by DFrank; 02-04-2016 at 09:25 PM. Reason: add on
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 09:45 PM
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Haven't some guys wired up a small LED in the cab that lights up whenever the GPs are energized?

Has it ever actually been confirmed that the GPs were remaining on all the time?

It seems like a diagnosis was made the first night your mechanic buddy helped you out and you wired a bypass but could you remind me how you know the GPs are staying on.


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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFrank View Post
At home I'll usually plug it in for planned trips, and then not even use the GPs, right?
The GPs still cycle after the block heater has been plugged in based on EOT and BAR.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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AD, you are correct, that I am not sure that they always stay on, just that they sometimes are on longer than two minutes, and with blowing a set after just a few days of driving, I want taking any chances.

Maybe I should wire an LED as you suggest, fed bu the GPR, leave the switch as I have it presently (ON/OFF buttons) and get a better feel for how often/ long they may be staying on by themselves.

What else might cause GPs to fail in just a few hundred miles of driving?

'96 F350 Crew Cab.

7.3 Power Stroke

LWB, 4X4

Dedicated for use with an older Lance Cabover camper
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