Rough starting 1984 F250 6.9L IDI Diesel - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
6.9L IDI Diesels (Not Power Strokes) Technical discussion of topics related to vehicles powered by the 6.9 Liter In-Direct Injection Navistar engines.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Rough starting 1984 F250 6.9L IDI Diesel

Diesel noob here.

Got a rebuilt 1984 250 6.9, turbo I think? for a work truck, runs great when warmed up, but starting her in the morning is a task.

I'm in Portland,OR and lows are around 40 right now. Have block heater but haven't used it yet, did not seem necessary. I won't always have access to electric in my travels so would like to avoid using when possible.

First few days I started it was very rough, 4-5 tries, had plugs on for 30-60 sec. Lots of white smoke out exhaust. But it eventually turned over and ran very smooth all day. Near instant starts after initial rough morning start

Then I left heater on one night, did not realize it was hard wired and drained battery. Charged batteries, then burned out starter trying to turn her over...not fully charged turns out.

Now I have fresh batteries, new starter and alternator. But only way I can get her going in morning is a squirt of starter fluid.
I hear this is very bad from some and nbd from others.

I wouldn't mind changing glow plugs, but hear that may not be issue. Some say it's the actual electrical housing for plugs...or something else entirely.

Lots of opinions out there, curious to hear more. Would like to fix myself if possible and have a reliable starting truck when I'm out in the country hunting, wandering, what not.


Can provide more info and pics as needed. Thanks for any help!

Last edited by Jordansaia; 03-25-2016 at 09:27 PM.
Jordansaia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 09:32 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
ArcticDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 3,609
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Welcome to the Forum.

As you have already heard, starter fluid is a very bad idea and the guys who have told you its no big deal should probably be avoided.

When you say the "heater is hard-wired" I am not sure which heater you mean. Do you mean the blower motor for your dashboard heater/vent system? Or your block heater?

A block heater is in no way connected to your batteries. The block heater operates on your homes 120v AC current and all the power onboard your truck relies on the batteries 12v direct current. They are completely independent of each other. There is really no "bad" time to plug in your block heater when the engine is not running as far as your truck is concerned. Your wallet might dictate otherwise but given your decpscription of cold starts I would plug in 2-3 hours before trying to start even at +40*.

I would also inspect/test the GPs and the GPR (Relay) because your description sounds like the classic symptoms for one or both of these needing replacement. You just need an inexpensive multi-meter ($10 at Sears) that can test both Voltages and Resistance (Ohms).

Plugging in the block heater will be a far less costly practice than using starting fluid until you get this sorted out.

Cheers


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 03-25-2016 at 09:39 PM.
ArcticDriver is offline  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 09:45 PM
Senior Member
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Valley, Ca.
Posts: 17,604
My Photos: (7)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Rough starting 1984 250 6.9 Diesel

If your glow plugs are energized for 30-60 seconds, your burning them out. No longer than 15 seconds is needed. If you do need to do it twice, wait about 30-45 seconds and then another 10-15 seconds should do it.

I would start by changing the glow plugs, make sure you DO NOT use Autolite.

1994 F-350 7.3 IDI Turbo, crew cab, E4OD,4:10 L/S, LB, Dually
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ATS Turbo upgrades: 3" DP with 3" exhaust Magnaflow XL muffler:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2012 Copper Canyon 273 FWRET w/2 slides, Air Lift 5000 bags
Pillar pod: Autometer C2 Series gauges: pyro,trans, boost, water, oil pressure
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hypermax Cowl induction, K&N air filter, flex-a-lite 26K trans cooler with fan,Tekonsha prodigy
Train Horns:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


PM please not visitor message
chuckster57 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks for the quick reply guys!

The heater that is hard wired is the dash vent. Not sure why it is, but I'd like to resolve that when I get starting issue sorted. The CD player also resets when turning truck on/off. But these are minor issues for now.

I'll start out testing the plugs and relay.

What numbers am I looking for with the resistance and voltage?
Do I need to take out plugs to test?
Where is relay located?

Been looking through videos, but finding lots of different results so far, I prefer the written word anyways

Thanks!
Jordansaia is offline  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
What brand of plugs do you recommend?
Jordansaia is offline  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-25-2016, 11:26 PM
Senior Member
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Valley, Ca.
Posts: 17,604
My Photos: (7)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quick test is a test light. Clip the Eire lead to the positive post and then use the tip to touch the top of the GP. Light on-GP may be good. No light GP is shot.

Using an Ohm meter from good ground to GP tip should be 2 Ohms if I remember right.

Motorcraft/Beru are the preferred brand. I have a set of DieselRx from thedieselstore.com that have been in since 2008.

1994 F-350 7.3 IDI Turbo, crew cab, E4OD,4:10 L/S, LB, Dually
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ATS Turbo upgrades: 3" DP with 3" exhaust Magnaflow XL muffler:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2012 Copper Canyon 273 FWRET w/2 slides, Air Lift 5000 bags
Pillar pod: Autometer C2 Series gauges: pyro,trans, boost, water, oil pressure
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hypermax Cowl induction, K&N air filter, flex-a-lite 26K trans cooler with fan,Tekonsha prodigy
Train Horns:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


PM please not visitor message
chuckster57 is offline  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks for the advice, will post update on how it goes tomorrow

So, if the starting issue does turn out to be plugs or relay and I replace, can I expect good cold starts when I am out in the back country? What other common starting issues could I have?

Want to do my best not to get stuck out there!
Jordansaia is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 12:25 AM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
ArcticDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 3,609
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordansaia View Post
Thanks for the advice, will post update on how it goes tomorrow

So, if the starting issue does turn out to be plugs or relay and I replace, can I expect good cold starts when I am out in the back country? What other common starting issues could I have?

Want to do my best not to get stuck out there!
Since your truck runs great once its started then just replacing the GPR and GPs are quite possibly the whole problem. These are common failure parts. Even if just a few of your GPs test "failed" it is pretty common to replace them all. As Chuck mentioned the concensus is to stick with Motorcraft (which are made by Beru if you find that brand).

Once replaced you should not have an issue starting cold in temps at +20*F and maybe even colder as long as your batteries are good and fully charged.

I still don't quite understand what is going on with your dash heater/vent blower remaining powered on after the ignition is off. Can you actually hear and feel the blower still operating? This is not common so don't rule out there could be a different issue killing your batteries. Here again, a multi-meter will allow you to test charging voltage and battery voltage when you shut down for the night and compare it against the following morning. A very important tool for your emergency kit in the back country.

Fun times ahead as you start to read old posts here at TDS and learn more about your rig.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 03-26-2016 at 01:03 AM.
ArcticDriver is offline  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The previous owner did a rebuild and pulled out the old dash, did a customized flat panel with multiple gauges.... Half of which don't work.

Heater and defrost are running directly from battery I think. I need to manually turn off after use or they drain battery.

Speedo and fuel gauges seem good

Tach gauge is very irratic, think it's reading off alternator, but I havent traced it yet. Did find a very strange device strapped to old alternator. Need to take a pic to describe well. Looks like a 3" strip of metal bent twice at 90 angles, then two wire contacts coming from top and running into main wire housing. Guessing this is the tach device.

Engine hums when warm, feels like good power and response when driving, tranny feels good but I don't know too much about them to closely inspect

Lots of oil leaks, white smoke coming from lower part of block when attempting to start cold with GPs. Smoke goes away after 1-2 minutes of idle.

That's all the obvious stuff I've noticed. Think I'm going to get better versed into hacked electrical systems soon...
Jordansaia is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
And yes @ArcticDriver to clarify, blower is still running normally after ignition is off
Jordansaia is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 03:57 AM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
ArcticDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 3,609
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordansaia View Post
And yes @ArcticDriver to clarify, blower is still running normally after ignition is off
After your post describing the PO work on custom dash I realized you have a FrankenDash and anything is possible

Good luck !


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.
ArcticDriver is offline  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 07:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Zork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 187
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
If your glow plugs are energized for 30-60 seconds, your burning them out. No longer than 15 seconds is needed. If you do need to do it twice, wait about 30-45 seconds and then another 10-15 seconds should do it.

I would start by changing the glow plugs, make sure you DO NOT use Autolite.
Don't use Champion @ $2 either. The Motorcraft/Beru seem to be the best according to what I've heard about reduced swelling and longevity.

The full loathe honey, but to the hungry even what is bitter tastes sweet.
Zork is offline  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yep def a FrankenDash,glad i got her on the cheap.
So i went to test the glow plugs today and I have no idea where they are. What I thought was them looks like it has injector lines going into top of block. The other candidates have no harness. Picture attached, what am i missing?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0326160956a_1459012926663.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	406.0 KB
ID:	91682  

Click image for larger version

Name:	0326160956_1459012979471.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	472.2 KB
ID:	91690  

Jordansaia is offline  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 02:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 86
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yeah, you were probably looking at the injectors. I circled them both for you. The glow plug connectors have a little plastic hook on one of the large flat sides you have to squeeze to pull them off.

It wouldn't hurt make sure you have 12V going to each plug too.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0326160956_1459012979471.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	691.6 KB
ID:	91706  


1985 6.9L F-250 XLT-Lariat; Ext. Cab, 8ft box, 175k Miles, C6, 2 wheel drive 3.55 Ford 10.25 open.
bobleny is offline  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-26-2016, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Jordansaia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 34
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks will give it a shot.

Also, tried block heater for for 3 hours this morning and no start. Had to use starter fluid again. Any other ideas?
Jordansaia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > Ford Diesels > 6.9L IDI Diesels (Not Power Strokes)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome