CP4--Confirm or Deny - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 152
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
CP4--Confirm or Deny

A service adviser told me that the CP4 return path flow had been changed in 2017 to route it back to the tank so that metal particles would have to go through filters again before getting to the injectors. This would be similar to what the S&S Diesel Bypass kit does. But S&S still seems to be marketing their kit for 2017+. Can anyone confirm or deny a change in CP4 fuel routing for 2017+?
Thanks.

2012 F-350 SRW CCSB XLT 6.7
Blue12 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 03:48 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
HeavyAssault's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: VA
Posts: 4,034
My Photos: (6)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Wish I had some diagrams myself.

2015 F-350 CCLB PSD 4X4 3.55 ELD

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some stock stuff, some modded stuff, some deleted stuff.....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HeavyAssault is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 07:09 AM
Senior Member
 
ford_doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ Native
Posts: 4,473
My Photos: (1)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I have not seen ANY documentation from Ford or Bosch regarding changes or revisions to the CP4 HPFP in the 6.7L Power Stroke as of this date. The fact that this continues to be discussed tells me there likely aren't any?

Just in case there are misconceptions about fuel flow and return with regard to the Ford Super Duty trucks I can tell you by the service documentation, description and operation, nothing has changed. The return fuel from the high pressure fuel injection pump combines with the return fuel from the fuel rail and is routed to the fuel cooler and then to the diesel fuel conditioning module. (primary filter) Inside the module there is a thermo-recirculation valve that depending on temperature of the fuel will recirculate the returned fuel either to the primary filter or back into the tank.

The only things that I can tell you that HAVE changed in 2017 Super Duty's with 6.7L Power Stroke engines are in the low pressure fuel system. The low pressure fuel pump has been moved from the fuel conditioning module to the fuel tank and the fuel conditioning module with filter is all new.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




2019 Ford Fusion ENERGI Titanium Plug-in Hybrid
Ford Senior Master Diesel Technician
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Diesel Technician Society
Diesel Mentor Directory


Last edited by ford_doctor; 09-28-2019 at 07:21 AM.
ford_doctor is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 152
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks for the description.

2012 F-350 SRW CCSB XLT 6.7
Blue12 is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 10:36 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 611
My Photos: (3)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
So, just to clarify... If the CP4 implodes, the particles will have to go thru the primary filter to get to the injectors or be flushed into the tank based on fuel temperature?

2017 F-350 CCSB 6.7L
[old]2002 7.3L PSD, 6spd, 4x4 Off-Road, Super Cab, Short Bed, ARE Topper, SCMT Autometer gauges, Tymar, 4" SS aero-turbine exhaust, & WW.

'73 Bronco 351 SEFI, 35's & Locked!
Jesus_man is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 11:44 AM
Senior Member
 
ford_doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ Native
Posts: 4,473
My Photos: (1)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus_man View Post
So, just to clarify... If the CP4 implodes, the particles will have to go thru the primary filter to get to the injectors or be flushed into the tank based on fuel temperature?
No. We were discussing fuel return flow to the tank.

The problem with the CP4 contaminating the entire high pressure fuel system is due to how fuel flows once it enters the pump. Fuel enters the main body of the pump where it lubricates and cools the cam, followers and pumping elements. From there fuel is sent to the high pressure cylinders through the volume control valve. So any debris created from the cam, followers and pistons that makes it's way past the screens on the VCV heads directly to the fuel rails and then the injectors. The unused fuel returns as previously described.

This explains why removing the VCV from the pump for contamination is needed to verify pump failure.
Attached Images
 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




2019 Ford Fusion ENERGI Titanium Plug-in Hybrid
Ford Senior Master Diesel Technician
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Diesel Technician Society
Diesel Mentor Directory

ford_doctor is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 03:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 611
My Photos: (3)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Ahh, ok. I had a euro diesel car fail in this way and was only hoping that there was some safety measures to prevent that my this truck.

My tdi is also prone to this failure...

2017 F-350 CCSB 6.7L
[old]2002 7.3L PSD, 6spd, 4x4 Off-Road, Super Cab, Short Bed, ARE Topper, SCMT Autometer gauges, Tymar, 4" SS aero-turbine exhaust, & WW.

'73 Bronco 351 SEFI, 35's & Locked!
Jesus_man is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 04:41 PM
Senior Member
 
ford_doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ Native
Posts: 4,473
My Photos: (1)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
There is a website that sells a "bypass" kit that blocks off the fuel feed to the VCV from the inner pump and takes clean fuel from the filter piped in from the current inlet connection. Looks like it works but I personally can't endorse it because I have no experience with it.

I think these are the peeps that came up with it: https://ssdiesel.com/shop/ford/kits-...pass-kit-2011/

And the Learn How It Works link WITH DIAGRAMS! https://www.drivingline.com/articles...42-bypass-kit/


I have seen it for sale on other websites.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




2019 Ford Fusion ENERGI Titanium Plug-in Hybrid
Ford Senior Master Diesel Technician
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Diesel Technician Society
Diesel Mentor Directory


Last edited by ford_doctor; 10-07-2019 at 06:48 PM.
ford_doctor is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-02-2019, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 152
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yes, the aftermarket bypass kit is what I mentioned in my original post. S&S Diesel makes it and others sell it. It sounds like Ford has not incorporated a return path change. Thanks to Ford_Doctor for the information.

2012 F-350 SRW CCSB XLT 6.7
Blue12 is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-03-2019, 06:08 AM
Senior Member
 
ford_doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ Native
Posts: 4,473
My Photos: (1)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Well the thing is the pump is not Ford's, it is Bosch. I think that if this truly is going to reduce or eliminate contaminating the rest of the high pressure system a design change would be fairly easy to implement. One could debate that making the pump more robust or resistant to suspended water would be more prudent but then again, keeping water and other things out of the fuel to begin plays a big part.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




2019 Ford Fusion ENERGI Titanium Plug-in Hybrid
Ford Senior Master Diesel Technician
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Diesel Technician Society
Diesel Mentor Directory

ford_doctor is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-03-2019, 08:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,486
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
So if water gets into the CP 4, kiss it all goodbye and replace everything? https://www.injectorsdirect.com/prod...amination-kit/


Ouch. What besides draining the water separator every so often and getting fuel from a high turn over station can be done? Additives? At $700 the Dieselsite filter seems like a good deal compared to what the repair kit costs.
HeavyAssault likes this.

DD 2018 F150 Platinum 3.5 EB
Tow Baby, 2012 F350 King Ranch SRW SB. Rolling Thunder III
Sold due to neglect
U.S.N. Paradise BB91904 '99 F350 CC LWB DRW
Mods, SuperHyper Improbability drive stage II.
Hypermax 5" turbo back system, triple pillar guages, Heater core shutoff. AEM Brute Force intake. 3.73 gearing. DP PCM with 80HP Installed!
ACD2 is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-03-2019, 10:03 PM
RT
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,322
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I realize this isnít feasible for most, but for my Audi I purchase fuel in a separate tank. I treat it with Optilube lubricity additive. I then run it through a 2 micron filter and then a Goldenrod water absorbing filter. Then it goes in the car. Easier to do when you get 40 mpg and only drive it on the weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2003 F-250 XLT Crew Cab 7.3L, Chrome BigTex Grille Guard, Quad pillar - 3 ISSPRO gauges (trans, pyro, boost) and DP-Tuner F6; Roush fuel pressure / temperature / oil pressure gauges, Ford Severe Duty AIS, 31 row 6.0 transmission cooler, ScanGauge II, Marinco mod, Walker BTM, Full Force Stage 1 injectors

IF MY BODY IS EVER FOUND ON A JOGGING TRAIL JUST KNOW THAT I WAS MURDERED SOMEWHERE ELSE AND DUMPED THERE
RT is online now  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 06:01 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
HeavyAssault's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: VA
Posts: 4,034
My Photos: (6)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I've found that the DieselSite insurance plan along with getting fuel from quality stations, then adding a quality fuel additive have done wonders for me. I run 10 micron filters in the DieselSite kit, Howe's fuel products, and in recent months only using Shell fuel. I'm QUITE happy with the results across the board.

It's not a single focused issue of water in the fuel, but the lubrication properties of ULSD. I'm sure you understand how running crappy oil in your motor causes problems you can understand the problem of poor fuel lubricating the inside of the HPFP.
ford_doctor likes this.

2015 F-350 CCLB PSD 4X4 3.55 ELD

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some stock stuff, some modded stuff, some deleted stuff.....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HeavyAssault is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 06:49 PM
Senior Member
 
ford_doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NJ Native
Posts: 4,473
My Photos: (1)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Absofreakinlutely.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




2019 Ford Fusion ENERGI Titanium Plug-in Hybrid
Ford Senior Master Diesel Technician
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Diesel Technician Society
Diesel Mentor Directory

ford_doctor is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Today, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 152
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
As said above, it's not just water, but gasoline, ethanol, methanol, etc. can also have the same effect of reducing lubricity in a fuel that is already low in lubricity. I have read on the internet (so it's true) that Canadian fuel is higher in lubricity. I have run Ford Cetane Booster and Performance Improver PM-22A since my truck was new. It adds lubricity and may also act as a demulsifier. Demulsification is important to separate any water into droplets that can be removed by the primary filter. Because alcohol is a problem I would avoid ANY fuel product that even hints about alcohol. But, the most important thing that I do is always, always, always, get a receipt for every tank of fuel. That way I can go back on the fuel station insurance if the pump tears up and furl analysis shows contamination. I am also considering switching to the more expensive Opti-lube product which is very well regarded.

Thanks again for all comments.

2012 F-350 SRW CCSB XLT 6.7
Blue12 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 2017 & up Ford Super Duties > 2017 and up 6.7L Engine and Drivetrain

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome