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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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High Silicons in oil

Hello all,

I have a 2017 F250 and while 90% of the driving is highway and loads less than 2000#s, the other 10 is city/highway with loads between 16,000-18,000lbs.

I have run Amsoil since about 30,000 miles and have Black Stone analyze until a baseline was established. Based on nothing more than results, I decided that 25,000 would be the point where I change only because I run a 25K filter.

My concern is that Blackstone has said many times that silicon is high, they always question my air filter. Even though the little suction thingy never said I needed to swap filter, I swapped it at about 55,000 miles. I still have had 2 reports after that say silicone is high.

Anybody have any ideas on what could be the cause ? Everything else looks good in the report, its just the silicon.

Thanks
John
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 04:50 PM
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I would say they are asking more like " What brand/make filter are you running?"...Not "What is the condition of your filter ??".

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Previous 2 reports have said Silicon is high, the suggested air filter, cracks in intake trac or possible residue from work that had been recently done.

I changed air filter and this report states high silicon, the truck has never had a thing done besides filter swaps so that rules of work done and I doubt it has a intake leak.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo X View Post
I doubt it has a intake leak.
But you don't know unless you check. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the issue.

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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So how would 1 check on these trucks ? I know on a gas engine you spray starter fluid and idle will increase, I also know on new vehicles you get a code. I’m shocked that these trucks aren’t smart enough to detect a leak.
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 07:56 AM
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So how would 1 check on these trucks ? I know on a gas engine you spray starter fluid and idle will increase, I also know on new vehicles you get a code. I’m shocked that these trucks aren’t smart enough to detect a leak.
I don't recommend spaying highly flammable chemicals for one. With gasoline engines you have the oxygen sensors and fuel trim parameters that could indicate an intake leak and will set lean codes. Not so here.



These diesel trucks are capable of detecting a leak however it will not determine if or set a code for a poorly sealed filter housing or a poor quality air filter. Leaks after the MAF sensor cause problems with the air management system - EGR flow detection and control and the turbocharger operation. Leaks there will also cause problems with the exhaust aftertreatment system. Leaks between the air MAF sensor and the intake manifold will set an appropriate code for boost, EGR flow and MAF/MAP sensor correlation. The diagnostics for all of these codes usually begins with a VISUAL INSPECTION of the air filter housing, turbo inlet tube and the charge air intake components. That is enough to detect a leak. Inspection will require some disassembly most notably the inlet tube - remove it noting the assembly and torque of the clamps, proper installation of the filter AND COVER, flex it and inspect the ribs of the pleated sections, look for dusting by wiping the inside with a clean finger. If you see any marks, that will confirm the presence of dirt. Look into the turbocharger inlet and inspect for signs of dirt. There should be a little oil there but no signs of dirt.




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Originally Posted by Turbo X View Post
I have run Amsoil since about 30,000 miles and have Black Stone analyze until a baseline was established. Based on nothing more than results, I decided that 25,000 would be the point where I change only because I run a 25K filter.
Could you elaborate on this statement a little for me?


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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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I don't recommend spaying highly flammable chemicals for one. With gasoline engines you have the oxygen sensors and fuel trim parameters that could indicate an intake leak and will set lean codes. Not so here.



These diesel trucks are capable of detecting a leak however it will not determine if or set a code for a poorly sealed filter housing or a poor quality air filter. Leaks after the MAF sensor cause problems with the air management system - EGR flow detection and control and the turbocharger operation. Leaks there will also cause problems with the exhaust aftertreatment system. Leaks between the air MAF sensor and the intake manifold will set an appropriate code for boost, EGR flow and MAF/MAP sensor correlation. The diagnostics for all of these codes usually begins with a VISUAL INSPECTION of the air filter housing, turbo inlet tube and the charge air intake components. That is enough to detect a leak. Inspection will require some disassembly most notably the inlet tube - remove it noting the assembly and torque of the clamps, proper installation of the filter AND COVER, flex it and inspect the ribs of the pleated sections, look for dusting by wiping the inside with a clean finger. If you see any marks, that will confirm the presence of dirt. Look into the turbocharger inlet and inspect for signs of dirt. There should be a little oil there but no signs of dirt.

But using a can of starter fluid is so much easier than the methods you suggest, hahaha. Thanks for the tips and its something I will further look into. I use Ford air filter so I assume I can eliminate that as a issue/cause In all my analysis but the first, they have mentioned that silicon is high and suggested it being caused by filtration or leak in trac or silicon from previous work. As already mentioned, filter was swapped with no better results, other than air filter and Diesel filters the engine hasn’t been touched.

I run a Amsoil 25K filter, oil analysis has proven the filter to be still working at 28,000 miles and oil to be able to go beyond 28,000 miles on 2 separate occasions. I can appreciate the savings of going 25,000 miles between oil changes versus the recommended of 5000-7500 with Ford Oil and since I change the filter at 25,000 miles I just figured I would make that my changing point for oil.

No factual or scientific reason, just because I wouldn’t think of trying to go 50k(2 oil filters) between oil changes. The oil might go 50K once but could I go that number all the time ? Things like dusty driving conditions, towing more, idling more might change the number I can go between changes and I wanted a solid date number I knew I could go. In my mind and with my wallet 25K seemed to fit.

Your thought please ?
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 12:42 PM
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Out of curiosity, what is the micron rating of your Amsoil oil filter? Or P/N?

That report is very impressive for 25K-mile OCI.

How does Blackstone establish the “Unit/Location averages” for all trucks in Column 2?
I doubt many trucks see your extended OCI so are the “averages” just other samples with similar 25K OCI ?


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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 12:56 PM
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What you should do is disassemble the intake piping behind the filter box and take a clean white towel and wipe the interior. If you see any dirt come out, then you have a leaking seal somewhere. I haven't looked at how the 6.7 is piped yet, so can't say how far back you can go, but the closest you can get to the turbo the better. I would suspect if you are getting high silicon levels, is because fine dust is getting sucked in somewhere, and the most likely place is pre-turbo. It can also get in via the PVC system, so check that as well.

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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 01:13 PM
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Have you ever had a VOA performed on your chosen Amsoil product to learn how much Silicon is present prior to use?
Amsoil should be able to provide this value.


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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 03:35 PM
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How does Blackstone establish the “Unit/Location averages” for all trucks in Column 2?
That column is for the truck in question. It's the average value for all the UOA's that they've done. Location would likely refer to a stationary engine installation.

For the first UOA, it would match the current values.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ArcticDriver View Post
How does Blackstone establish the “Unit/Location averages” for all trucks in Column 2?
That column is for the truck in question. It's the average value for all the UOA's that they've done. Location would likely refer to a stationary engine installation.

For the first UOA, it would match the current values.
That makes sense.
Thanks

I would like to see a VOA on the specific Amsoil he uses.


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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 09:20 PM
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One thing to consider is age of filter in and out of use. If you only drive 5,000 mi a year that means 5 years that the glue in the filter has to keep working. I know Cummins is very concerned about filter shelf life. I never did ask AMSOIL filter life but it might be worth it if you are going to keep them on for longer than a year.
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In my shop experience has shown over and over that there are no savings when you save money on oil changes. You end up paying for it with more oil leaks if nothing else.
Seeing how long you go on oil strikes me as seeing how long you can go before you crap. Sure you'll save time in the bathroom and save toilet paper but you're carrying around a lot of crap in the mean time. Same with oil. Results from UOA will tell you the oil is OK in some ways but it does not gauge the harm some of the contaminants that have increasing levels will do to some parts of engine. How does it affect rear main seal? Valve stem seals? Rocker arm tips?
Air filters are not catching anything smaller than the fiber to fiber space. That small stuff is often small enough to pass oil filter. It collects solely based on the cubic feet of air consumed and then wiped down cylinder walls into oil by rings. It gets out of engine by draining the oil.
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Seeing how long you go on oil strikes me as seeing how long you can go before you crap. Sure you'll save time in the bathroom and save toilet paper but you're carrying around a lot of crap in the mean time.
The forum has a Philosopher.
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