When is Ford going to learn how to build a decent diesel engine ? - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
 28Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
When is Ford going to learn how to build a decent diesel engine ?

My 2008 F350 has 220,000 light duty miles on it. I love the truck, but the engine is on its last legs. I'm pi$$ed to learn that the 6.4 is basically a throw away engine and a reman is going to cost $15K or so by the time I'm done. To say nothing about my 6.4 needing a new fuel system, DPF and radiator while I had it.

So I'm in the market for a new truck. I haven't looked at new trucks in forever. So I test drove a 2017 F350 with a 6.7L thinking I would finally be able to buy a Superduty with a good engine that would outlive the rest of the truck. Because Ford now builds their own diesel engines and the 6.7s are bulletproof, right ?

Wrong !

I walk past the service bay doors and there are two 2011+ Superduties in the bay with the cabs lifted. One has the heads removed. WTH ? I ask the salesman about the 6.7s and of course he tells me what a great engine they are. I point to the trucks in the service bays and he he starts telling me about emissions, fuel quality, abuse, etc. Really ?

So I start talking to truck owners about their 6.7s and I get the same familiar Ford diesel story. "Oh yeah, love the truck and the engine is excellent." "Have you had any issues ?" "Well..."

And then you start getting the real story. Blown turbos, leaking radiators, dropped valves, DEF issues, etc. On the 6.7s ! And the owners always smooth things over by saying the dealer took care of them and it was covered under warranty.

Of course it was ! Most of these trucks are only a few years old ! But what about when these trucks have some real miles on them and the real issues start coming out ?

I remember when the 6.0L came out. It was supposed to be such a great engine. Then people got some miles on them and, well, you know the story.

And then came the 6.4. It was supposed to be bulletproof. Supposedly Navistar fixed all the 6.0 issues with it. And now we find it has issues, it doesn't last much longer than 200K and it is a throw away engine when that time comes.

And then came the 6.7. It was supposed to be the engine that ended the issues, because this time Ford designed it themselves. Millions of miles of testing, extreme duty, blah, blah, blah. But guess what ? The 2011s had bad valves. They've had turbo issues. The radiators leak, just like the 6.4 radiators leaked. WTH ? The DEF systems give problems. The fuel systems can give problems and now I learn that the 2015-16s have an issue with valves during the regen process.

Are you kidding me ?

And the kicker of it all is that when you open the hood there is crap from fenderwell to fenderall, grill to firewall.

One of the main selling points of a diesel engine is supposed to be reliability and longevity. Listen up, Ford. I am not going to sink $75K into a new truck with a questionable engine. Luckily I skipped the 6.0 trucks by keeping my 2000 until I bought my 2008. My experience with the 6.4 has been so so. I purposely waited until the 2017s came out to get my next truck and now I find out the same old song and Ford diesel dance. Sorry, I'm not biting.
someguy24 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 02:55 PM
Senior Member
 
badbart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In your dreams
Posts: 1,010
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I was right there with you but I have friends that are Ford diesel techs who talked me into getting one. They tell me the issues with them are few and far between. Obviously if you are the one having the issue at the moment what I am saying is not likely helpful but I have observed from afar and I have taken the plunge. So far, so good. Easily the most powerful truck I've ever owned. Time will tell.

2011 F350 4x4 XL Crew Cab Dually

2010 Keystone Fuzion 405 Toyhauler
badbart is offline  
post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 11:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 613
My Photos: (3)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
That's two threads where you're telling us you don't like the 2017's. You're entitled to your opinion and as someone else mentioned in your other thread, there is just no pleasing some people. So what value do you add with threads like this other than trolling.

Did you happen to walk by the service bays of Ram and Chevy and see no diesels on their lifts?? I mean, if someone were to build an absolutely trouble free vehicle, then there would be no contest. Rolls Royce was to be one such company, and yet... So even if you spend a quarter of a million dollars on a vehicle, it will not be trouble free.

Perhaps buying a truck for you is like voting at the polls; checking the box next to the lesser of evils??

If you like your 2008 so well, why not spend that $15k on the engine and continue enjoying it?? That's a far cry from the cost of these new trucks!
96STROKE likes this.

2017 F-350 CCSB 6.7L
[old]2002 7.3L PSD, 6spd, 4x4 Off-Road, Super Cab, Short Bed, ARE Topper, SCMT Autometer gauges, Tymar, 4" SS aero-turbine exhaust, & WW.

'73 Bronco 351 SEFI, 35's & Locked!
Jesus_man is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 12:11 PM
Senior Member
 
lincster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Phoenix Az.
Posts: 2,864
My Photos: (29)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Then don?t buy one.
HeavyAssault likes this.

2019 F350 4X4 Dually, FX4, Crew Cab, Ultimate Lariat Package, Agate Black, Black Leather towing a 2006 LE3905 Weekend Warrior

2002 F250 CC, 4X4 - Sold
2004 F350 CC, FX4, loaded - Sold
2006 F350 CC, DRW, FX4 - Sold
2012 F350 CC, DRW, FX4 - Sold
lincster is offline  
post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 11:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 58
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I don't personally believe $24,000 blown engines every 50,000 miles acceptable,so stay with my 1997.

Fred 1997 Queens, NY
Freddyfender1999.999 is offline  
post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-24-2017, 11:03 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 25
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Yep, just like every other car on the planet.

1st model year changes will have teething issues. Get the last model year prior to major engine changes and you will have a higher degree of reliability/ less failures.

If you expect eternal perfection in a vehicle (at any price) then you don't understand economics.

Toyota comes the closest to complete long term reliability, but even they have similar issues. I've got two 4.7L V8s that are crazy reliable engines. But that moronic plastic tank/ metal fin radiator design leaks like a sieve just like it does in the Ford SD.

So, you weigh the options and pick the best fit for your needs.

If you could actually build a truck that never wore out in any regard, then you would be in business for a decade and gone. Since no one would ever need a new one unless they crashed the old one.

A vehicle is a consumable tool. Granted with a higher entry ticket and a longer usable life than most. Use it up, recycle it, and buy another.
lincster and Phillippeterson like this.

2003 Toyota 4Runner Ltd RWD V8
2004 Lexus GX470
2012 F350 Lariat CCLB SRW
GregWork is offline  
post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:47 PM
Senior Member
 
MX727's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 444
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
So, I've documented my issue with the 2014 HPFP and my disgust with Ford. That being said, are those same issues still cropping up in the 2016-2017? I was under the impression that changes were made.

Thanks

2000 F350 Lariat, Black with Tan Interior
2004 F350 Lariat, White with Gray Interior
2007 F350 Lariat, Red with Black Interior
2014 F450 DRW Lariat, Ruby Red with Black Interior
2017 F350 DRW Lariat, Graphite with Black Interior
2019 F450 DRW Lariat, Graphite with Black Interior
MX727 is offline  
post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-26-2017, 09:36 AM
Junior Member
 
carbonation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 29
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Whoever told you the 6.4 was bulletproof was blowing more smoke than a bro truck on a race tune.
The 6.0, believe it or not, is a really great engine, once the problems that crop up are addressed. The problems remained consistent, but the time to failure was the variable, depending on how much fuel was applied, and cylinder pressure wasincreased.
The 6.7 is clean sheet, and the only one like it. Intake is on the low side of the head, exhaust up top, turbo in the valley with short runners. That fixed the exhaust bellows and up pipe problems in short order. The oil system was fixed, the cooler is outside the engine. The cooling system was fixed... a split design to handle the oil and turbo cooling differently than the heads.
Yes, there are some problems, DEF tanks being one, the fuel system being two, IF exposed to water. I'm willing to bet the owners with problems drove the crap out of them, little maintenance, didn't drain the water separator, didn't add anything to the fuel to deal with water.
A FASS system, a DPF friendly tune from DPTuner, and regular maintenance can and will make the 6.7 as close to bulletproof as you can get. Even regular, diligent maintenance stock can get impressive numbers.
You can look and find DuraMax and Cummins problems as well. But you wont find too many mentions like this.


Last edited by carbonation; 09-26-2017 at 09:41 AM.
carbonation is offline  
post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-02-2017, 11:06 AM
Senior Member
 
MX727's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 444
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
You’d lose that bet.

2000 F350 Lariat, Black with Tan Interior
2004 F350 Lariat, White with Gray Interior
2007 F350 Lariat, Red with Black Interior
2014 F450 DRW Lariat, Ruby Red with Black Interior
2017 F350 DRW Lariat, Graphite with Black Interior
2019 F450 DRW Lariat, Graphite with Black Interior
MX727 is offline  
post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 08:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Unfortunately, I am with you man. I will not own a 6.7 or any modern diesel for that matter. It is ridiculous to think that a bad fuel pump may set me back 10K. This is simply unacceptable. This could have been designed differently. One truck is too many to have that issue. Fuel quality is ofter hit or miss. Or the phrase "I need a extended warranty on a 75k truck?" Umm no, that is unacceptable as well. When the 7.3 dies a gasser will replace it.
Superdick likes this.

2000 F350 DRW 7.3
tomlin is offline  
post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
 
69mach1377's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ABQ, NM, USA
Posts: 1,593
My Photos: (1)
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Sticking to my 7.3 also...it has sort of replaced my old 69 mach1 as my hotrod project as in I'm alright with wrenching on it now and again.

2000 F250 XLT 4x4 SC 7.3 w/rebuilt 4R100, 3 autometer gages, Super Zoodad, PHP Hydra chip, 4" DP/Exhaust w/dual 3.5" outlets, 275/70/18 Kumho AT51s on 8.5" rims, 08 AlumDiffCvr, Bilsteins, 31 row trans cooler, WW, BPV delete, AIH delete, hutch, harpoon and billet FPR (70psi), rear air bags, Jimmijammers.
Jayco 26BHS elite, no RV parks...just the woods, lakes and streams if possible.
See my album for a recent pic.
69mach1377 is offline  
post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 06:51 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
HeavyAssault's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: VA
Posts: 4,072
My Photos: (6)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Show me the BEST current model year diesel motor. Something that has NO issues with any mode of operation. Step up.....
Phillippeterson likes this.

2015 F-350 CCLB PSD 4X4 3.55 ELD

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some stock stuff, some modded stuff, some deleted stuff.....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HeavyAssault is offline  
post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-15-2017, 06:11 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 1,437
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
My 2016 has been flawless.. my 2011 6.7 was flawless too. traded at 125k..I work it hard. Trans was clunking then but probably solenoids. The 2017 might have issues with anything other then the 6.7. actually being a new body model year.
HeavyAssault likes this.

2016 F350 Lariat Copperfire Bronze,Black Leather Crew Cab,Short Box SRW. Supplemental Heater,3.55 ELD, Remote Starter. Used for hauling 16ft x 8.5ft. Work Trailer , 8ft. Fisher Plow, Lance 820 truck camper for those days I can get away.
Captcaper is offline  
post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 11:16 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Things have gotten too complicated with modern vehicles. It's not just Ford. In fact Ford is probably one of the better ones. The advent of CAN BUS was the game changer. I chased a CAN issue with the wife's Jeep. Dash lights all lit up. Turn Signal on with the switch turned off. Basically not driveable. Turns out after two days of troubleshooting it was the right rear stop/tail bulb. The tail filiment burned out and fell onto the brake light filiment. One new bulb and it was fixed. It would have been a high dollar fix at a dealer or any shop. I got lucky. There is no need for this level of complexity.
Phil G. and MrTommy like this.

2000 F350 DRW 7.3
tomlin is offline  
post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 06:01 PM
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
ArcticDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 3,803
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Good luck to any diesel engineering team that needs to keep up with all the obstacles the EPA throws at them.

The only ones to figure it out so far were the VW engineers....and look at all the trouble it got them into.

https://www.epa.gov/emission-standar...les-and-trucks

"We are from the Government and we are here to help!"
aclasshog likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 CC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 182,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II, AIC, Bilstein 5100, Stancor GPR, Marinco Mod, B&W Turnover Ball, Michelin Defender LTX


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 F-250 4x4 SC LB 7.3 PSD w/ZF-6. 177,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. ScanGauge-II. Bilstein 5100. Stancor GPR. Walker BTM. Noco Mod. Michelin Defender LTX 285/75/16.

SOLD:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2000 F-250 4x4 SC SB 7.3 PSD w/4R100. 164,000 miles.
NOS Black CPS. Rebuilt Fuel bowl w/gold spring, 6.0 Cooler, Walker BTM, Stancor GPR, Michelin LTX M&S2.

Last edited by ArcticDriver; 11-17-2017 at 06:06 PM.
ArcticDriver is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 2017 & up Ford Super Duties > 2017 and up 6.7L Engine and Drivetrain

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome