Sabotaged or really bad fuel? - Page 2 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Sitting to long.

Well, I should apologize. There is a better than average chance that it wasn't Costco at all. I purchased a truck that has been sitting around since July (Build date). More than enough time for what little fuel it had to go bad. The dealer topped it off from less than a 1/4 to full. So for that, I apologize to Costco and you all for the misleading post.

I did go down to Costco and fill a glass growler 2/3 with Diesel before getting yelled at by the attendant since it wasn't an approved container. Poor fella about had a heart attack until I told him it's only diesel. Anyway, the fuel in the glass jug looked beautiful.

I siphoned 15 gallons out of the truck and drained the separator. I replaced the old stuff with fuel from another name brand station. I will be draining the separator tomorrow to see what there is to see. If it runs clean, I will replace the filters and hopefully, no further issues.

Thanks for the ideas and help. You are all helping me figure this out. Merry Christmas!

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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mowhawky View Post
Well, I should apologize. There is a better than average chance that it wasn't Costco at all. I purchased a truck that has been sitting around since July (Build date). More than enough time for what little fuel it had to go bad. The dealer topped it off from less than a 1/4 to full. So for that, I apologize to Costco and you all for the misleading post.

I did go down to Costco and fill a glass growler 2/3 with Diesel before getting yelled at by the attendant since it wasn't an approved container. Poor fella about had a heart attack until I told him it's only diesel. Anyway, the fuel in the glass jug looked beautiful.

I siphoned 15 gallons out of the truck and drained the separator. I replaced the old stuff with fuel from another name brand station. I will be draining the separator tomorrow to see what there is to see. If it runs clean, I will replace the filters and hopefully, no further issues.

Thanks for the ideas and help. You are all helping me figure this out. Merry Christmas!
Thanks for providing the additional details.
Was the 15 gallons you siphoned the entire amount of fuel in the tank?
Did you find more water in the 15 gallons?

I would still be sure to run the two fuel treatment products that I posted earlier by Power Service.
There is a good chance you have microbial contamination if it sat all those months with water in the tank.


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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 11:18 AM
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I'm curious if someone at the dealer accidentally put DEF in the fuel tank.
Happens more often than would you think. Lol

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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Still

Drained the separator again and have a quarter sized pool of water at the bottom of the jar. In addition, the fuel is still cloudy. I can actually see stuff floating in the fuel. Thanks for recommendation on the products. I will order some.

This issue is beyond what I think should be remedied by me. I am calling the dealer tomorrow to get this in the books in case it is something that may have after effects down the road. All that stuff has got to be clogging my filters and I don't know how much they can stand.

I'll let you guys know what they say tomorrow. At the very least they should replace my filters.

Thanks.
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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Well, i'm screwed.

Took the truck to the dealer and they drained some fuel and sent a picture and info right to Ford. Ford says to remove and flush EVERYTHING that touches the fuel and replace a whole bunch of stuff, injectors included. The really awesome part (sarcastic) is that it's NOT covered under warranty since I have gotten fuel since I took delivery of the truck. I had a long discussion with the service adviser and a Ford tech. Here is what it boils down to:

Never get fuel at anything other than a "Name Brand" station. Costco,Fred Meyer, Arco all crap. Service Technician words not mine. I told him how I took a sample of fuel at Costco and it was beautiful. He of course came back with "You got a bad batch". I told him that no where in the owners manual does it say which stations to avoid.

Anyway, I siphoned more fuel from a new tank to continue to dilute what is in the tank and I am going to run it until "E". Then a fresh tank with some Diesel water remover and Stanadyne. I will empty the fuel water separator every 50 miles until no more water is found.

By the way, the repair by Ford would be around 12-13 GRAND. They did it recently for someone who put gas in their tank. It was covered under their insurance (comprehensive). I am pretty sure my coverage would take care of it but not positive.

The service adviser recommended I just get as much of the bad fuel out and run it down and put fresh fuel in it and just keep doing that. I have noticed nothing form the truck with regard to run-ability.

So the million dollar question is: Do I report this to my insurance and let them tear the truck down or do I keep on keeping on and change filters once I can get this to clear up? If I get a mechanical break down later, my insurance should cover it since I also have the breakdown insurance.

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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 09:44 PM
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Probably should just drop the tank, clean it, dry it and be done with the possibility of water from that fillup. Future fillups is another deal altogether.
I still am bothered by the amount of water you have come up with....doesn't make sense.
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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 02:59 AM
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If the water/fuel seperator was doing its job then the components downstream should not have been exposed to enough water to cause damage.

As suggested above, dropping the tank one time and just being done with it might offer greater peace of mind.

One question I would have for Ford is whether your future warranty is now in jeopardy since they have a record of this tied to the VIN. If that is the case then you have suffered a real financial loss and might want to check with your insurance company since the resale value of the truck is diminished.

Could this be covered under Comprehensive?


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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Giving it until the end of the Holiday weekend

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If the water/fuel seperator was doing its job then the components downstream should not have been exposed to enough water to cause damage.

As suggested above, dropping the tank one time and just being done with it might offer greater peace of mind.

One question I would have for Ford is whether your future warranty is now in jeopardy since they have a record of this tied to the VIN. If that is the case then you have suffered a real financial loss and might want to check with your insurance company since the resale value of the truck is diminished.

Could this be covered under Comprehensive?
I agree. I am going to put small amounts of fuel in the tank for now. I ran it to almost empty and put 3 gallons in. I'll do that a couple times and continue to empty the fuel water separator after each drive. If the fuel doesn't clear up after just a couple of these drives, then I will contact my insurance and let them talk to Ford.

I wonder what fuel looks like if someone adds DEF to the fuel. An experiment is in order with some of the fuel I pull out. The only people who have put DEF in the truck would have been Ford.

What I don't get is the real cloudiness of the fuel. You can't even see thru an 8 oz glass of the stuff. Ford won't admit to biomass in the tank because of the water. BTW Costco fuel is listed as Top Tier if you are curious.

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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 10:09 PM
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This is supposed to be diesel in the def tank. So same thing.


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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 10:10 PM
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If you think it might be bacterial growth, add a diesel fuel biocide...

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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-30-2017, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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not sure

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If you think it might be bacterial growth, add a diesel fuel biocide...
I'm a little timid about adding a biocide at this point. If I have a failure at this point, I don't want a unapproved additive in there. I have used Stanadyne to give the Fuel/Water separator a helping hand in pulling the water out.

The previous picture looks exactly like what I was seeing. I say "was" because it has gotten better. I ordered a filter set (motorcraft) from Rock Auto and once I believe it's close to looking normal, I am going to replace the filters.



I

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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 03:01 AM
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My concern is that Ford now has documentation that you have WIF and IF you should decide not to follow their recommended procedure to replace all components that could have made contact with the contaminated fuel then will your warranty be effected?

Now lets say that your truck experiences a mechanical issue a year from now and you take it in under warranty. Can Ford deny the warranty work by saying the issue is a result of the WIF "if" you should fail to follow their repair procedure at this time?

I wonder if having introduced this issue to Ford and not following their recommended service may have greater implications than the immediate concern of cloudy fuel.


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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
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If you think it might be bacterial growth, add a diesel fuel biocide...
I'm a little timid about adding a biocide at this point. If I have a failure at this point, I don't want a unapproved additive in there. I have used Stanadyne to give the Fuel/Water separator a helping hand in pulling the water out.
A small amount of Stanadyne Performance additive is insufficient to chemically treat the quantity of water that is present in your fuel tank. If you are not going to drop the tank then the amount of water will atleast require a fuel additive dedicated to water removal by chemical means and in sufficient quantity to allow the chemical reaction to take place. Not just an all-in-one product that lubricates and increases cetane.

Most truck owner don't realize this until they have experienced it.


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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 03:45 AM
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BTW Costco fuel is listed as Top Tier if you are curious.
Maybe of interest to some readers but Top Tier just started rating diesel fuel in October 2017. Prior to that it only applied to the gasoline products.

http://www.toptiergas.com/top-tier-diesel-fuel/


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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 12-31-2017, 07:02 AM
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The cloudiness of the diesel fuel is the result of it being emulsified with water. There have been major differences of opinion on the best way to treat minute amounts of water in fuel...some contend it is best to "demulsify" the fuel (using a product like Stanadyne) while other argue encouraging "emulsification" is best. There are good arguments from both camps but they are discussing small amounts of water. For example:

According to the Stanadyne website:
"Helps Remove Water – special demulsifiers cause tiny water droplets to come out of suspension/emulsion, so the filter/separator can more effectively remove water"

And the counterpoint:
The downside to a Demulsifier causing excess water to fall out of the fuel is the water will sink below the diesel and sit in the bottom of the tank where it contribute to corrosion/microbial growth and may possibly freeze in the fuel lines during winter months.

However, I think everyone agrees that when significant amounts of water are introduced into the fuel tank such as in your case then a more aggressive method of removal must occur or large amounts of water can be introduced to the mechanical filter TOO FAST allowing some water to reach the injectors and combustion chamber.


Another negative to a passive approach to water removal is the longer water is present in a fuel system the greater the opportunity of microbial development. BTW, microbes will not be distributed equally throughout the fuel tank, it will be heavily concentrated in a layer at the interface of the water and fuel layers so your fuel pick up might not access this layer and therefore it won't be visible in your sample bottle. I think everyone agrees that microbial contamination of diesel is a bad thing.

Unfortunately, an "all-in-one" product like Stanadyne Performance or Diesel-Kleen additive cannot remove significant amounts of water such as you have in your fuel. Here is a good explanation by Power Service of why you must use a product dedicated only to treating water contaminated fuel:

"There is a lot of misinformation about additives and water dispersants. When you use an additive like our Diesel Fuel Supplement or Diesel Kleen these are mixtures of additives in a package. These various chemicals have to be balanced so they will not separate when you mix them together. It doesn't matter if you use our additives or one of our competitors, a good water dispersant takes a lot of room in the additive package. If you add a strong detergent, strong cetane, excellent lubricity, corrosion, top of the line antigel, and stability to the additive package there is not much room left for a water dispersant. A good multiple benefit package will always have a weak water dispersant package. It is a matter of chemistry. The only way to get a strong water dispersant is to get an additive whose top attribute is to control water like our Diesel 911. It takes a lot of water dispersant to take care of free water so it will take up a lot of room in a container."

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnut60 View Post
Probably should just drop the tank, clean it, dry it and be done with the possibility of water from that fillup. Future fillups is another deal altogether.
I still am bothered by the amount of water you have come up with....doesn't make sense.
Both Ford and Wingnut are on the right track about dropping the tank but at the very least, you might want to add Diesel 911 or a similar dedicated product that will aggressively deal with the presence of WIF.

.


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Last edited by ArcticDriver; 12-31-2017 at 08:02 AM.
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