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are 6.2 gassers really that bad?

4K views 32 replies 10 participants last post by  DonWarkentin 
#1 ·
I got this info from hand calculated owner of a I think its a 2015 6.2 F250 dually CC 4x4 who uses his mainly for farm use/hauling flatbed trailer with his kubota tractor or car trailer with vehicles etc....nothing extremely heavy - kubota w/trailer and truck are around 15K lbs - he is usually pulling 6 to 9K lbs when towing or empty trailer before pickup of vehicle. I didnt ask what gear ratio.

He disclosed his hand calculated mileage on his truck and it was as follows


In a years time he only has two tanks over 10mpg, one empty at 11.02 going to wichita and another 14.90 driving around in the snow.

ALL of the rest are from 5 to 7 mpg which are loaded/trailer and then 7 to 9 empty

that is scary bad if you ask me and ford is coming out with a 7.3 gasser who will likely be even more thirsty - our old 460 did that good and had a 3 speed trannie with no overdrive.

I got 5 to 7 with my 351 windsor h.o. pulling my skid steer

With these gas figures how does a person justify going back to gas?

I put on 25K minimum per yr and if i use 7mpg @2.5$/gal thats ( current prices ) $8929/yr
Diesel would be 15mpg ( what i avg in my diesel now ) $4650 @ 2.79/gal = $4279 savings so in a tad over 2 yrs i have paid for my diesel engine and have the resale to boot.

In 300K miles which is the current state of my diesel on that gasser i would have spent $107142 on gas
$55,800 on diesel = savings of $51342 - i realize i would have DEF costs and repairs for diesel are expensive but what am i missing?

I would think we could get a gasser that could do better than those numbers WOW

I been wanting to go back gas but this doesnt make sense - thoughts anyone?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Gas starts in cold weather, don’t stink, cheaper to maintain , half the price for oil change, cheaper to purchase, warm up quicker, make better around town ride

Before you say anything let me get my flame suit on

I have had 2 of the 7.3L power strokes. Went with a gaser 2 years ago. Well looking to go back to a diesel because I want to. But the diesel costs a ton to own..... vs the gas. Not opinion, just facts of ownership
 
#3 ·
Gasoline engines in these trucks have always had poor mileage. 5-7 seems unusually low BUT it's "farm use" suggests the truck is used on a property where the average speed is low, idle time may be high on top of a lot of towing.
 
#4 ·
I'm averaging 14 MPG with the 2018 Ford with the 6.2 without much of a load. I like the engine well enough but admit I miss the '99 and '00 7.3L PSDs that I had. But as mentioned, the cost of ownership of the diesel is high, so unless you need what a diesel affords work-wise, then a gasser is a much more economical option. I'm getting old and was reaching a point where I didn't think I'd have the strength to loosen the oil filter on the PSD to do my own oil changes, so went with the gasser on the new truck. I don't regret my decision despite missing the diesel engines and all that they afforded.
 
#5 ·
#7 ·
Ships are switching from bunker fuel to diesel, increasing the demand for diesel and raising the price. https://www.ttnews.com/articles/cargo-ships-may-switch-diesel-fuel-2020

If diesel prices go sky high, then the gas option may become more appealing. Ford is aware of this, and will be ready for it with the gas 7.3l.
Some cargo ships are switching from fuel oil to LNG. There are a couple container ships that run from Tacoma to Anchorage, Alaska are doing that. Currently, Diesel is about 20c cheaper than gas up here. But you're right, if diesel prices go way up, gassers will be a lot easier on the pocketbook to own.
 
#6 ·
thanks guys, im thinking if the 6.2 is any indication how much ford put into the economy considerations the 7.3 gasser will be even worse - thats a scary thought.

you would think with 6 to 10 speed transmissions, fuel injection, better aerodynamics, technology, we could produce something better than we are. I know the V10 was a vacuum as well.

Im about 4 yrs out on a replacement so i will have time to see what happens before i move on anything that will give me time to ponder real world results. If im going to get V10 mileage out of a 6.2 i may as well go 7.3.
 
#8 ·
I am amazed that people might expect good fuel economy from an engine that puts out 385-hp and 430 lb/ft of torque. I too think it will be interesting to see where the real world 7.3L numbers end up.
 
#9 ·
I would ask............should we not expect descent fuel economy from companies ?

Should we not expect technology to perform better and have better fuel economy?

With all the focus on the environment, should we not expect something better than a 1976 fuel mileage?
 
#10 ·
You get 15-mpg pulling 15K pounds?
 
#12 ·
expectation of gasser for me for a 3/4 or 1ton would be

15mpg empty at hwy speeds
13 mixed/city
10 to 11 hauling avg load
8 extreme load

diesel now
i get 18 to 19 now at hwy speeds
17 mixed
11 to 14 towing large to small
The least was GCWR of 30K and i got between 9 and 10

i dont have a heavy foot
 
#13 ·
Back when I bought my '99 V10, the costs I paid in fuel over time a 7.3L owner paid for on the sticker for the motor.

In the end a diesel sells due to MPG and power while loaded. Not to mention how many miles on intends on driving or owning the vehicle.

The new gasser 7.3L will be a hot seller with plenty of people. Add on a few power tweaks with a tuner or forced induction.....it's going to be the modern day "old school" High Boy of the past.

BTW for those arguing about the global impacts.....diesel trucks are going to be replaced by electric variants. Nothing compares to the low end TQ of a DC motor with INSTANT power...no lag, no weakness......no pollution. Just think....instead of a old school front axle...how about two DC motors up front controlled to add traction/pulling power when needed. No power used when flat driving, motor recharges battery, then uphill climbs the system engages the two DC motors to pull the vehicle up the hill. Added traction in the snow/mud when a Mode button is pressed or the system determines it's needed.
 
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#14 ·
diesel trucks are going to be replaced by electric variants. Nothing compares to the low end TQ of a DC motor with INSTANT power...no lag, no weakness......no pollution.


I doubt most of us here will be able to live to the completion of this nor be able to afford one when it happens - i see the CNG metro transit busses around here ( no clue how they work )

the good portion of us will likely be toting our high maint diesels or gas guzzlers.

I think part of the reason trucks/diesels have gotten so expensive is they are preparing for the prices they will be charging for these new trucks that are technologically advanced and the RnD that they claim cause them to be so $$$$ even tho they have fewer parts and require less overall maint costs.

We all know its a racket for technology, environmental impacts, fuels, lobbyists, agendas, and we will all be the ones paying for it and we have yet to experience any benefit from it from what i would call substantial outside of airbags and longevity, unfortunately most of the longevity gain is offset by expensive maint costs.

All we have managed to do is create more creature comforts - they all burn the same amount of fuel, they continue to cost tons more, - i do like airbags and them lasting longer but they have to due to their cost.

We will likely not see any benefits going forward either
 
#15 ·
They said the same thing about cell phones nor did anyone REALLY think they would be using it for the internet. If we were talking about living on Mars....sure I would agree with you.

There's plenty of vehicles out there that are 100% electric...is 2008 really that far back?? Nope...so why in the next 10 years can't you see the big three pumping out 100% electric trucks?? BTW I'm currently addressing a hybrid drive version....after that the dye is cast and the future will be here soon!! Ford already has an F150 Hybrid in the works.
 
#16 ·
i live in the world of technology, i work in IT and have for the past 35 yrs, ive see things go from big chief tablets to a smart phone/ipad and they only thing i can say we have gained in true benefit is speed of accessing something and the amount of information we have available. It basically boils down to convenience. Now saying that we of course have other things on the back side that have helped but at what cost?

I would trade convenience for cost any day. We as a people are poor at setting boundaries around destructive things out of convenience. Living in technology daily i see it tearing us apart as a people. We know the statistics and reasons but we are foolish in taking steps to create the boundaries we need - myself included - Do we take some of the benefits of those things yes but I would say the negs far outweigh the pos.

I am not talking advancement, im talking reality based

So what will be ultimately gained from a vehicle that is electric?

What will we lose moving to an electric vehicle?

those are the things of Depth i am talking about - its all about control, the Gov't will own us just like our finances do as they dictate where we are.

When we move into the world of 5G our lives are going to change monumentally - we will be able to be tracked in every movement from what we consume and where we are at any give moment. We can be now but not in the real time and statistically based data we will have in 5G.

the Gov't is driving this and we are falling for it to be more like the EAST. They already have it - we will be living in a world of less control and more control of the gov't.

I am a skeptic by nature and also a realist/prove it to me kind of guy. I see it all Big Picture and we are less than 10 yrs away from the European model.

An electric vehicle will not be our cure. An electric vehicle will not be 20K less than gas/diesel. The prices of those will go down until the electric is proven or we are forced out of the gas/diesel and into the electric which will enable them to drive those prices back up.
 
#17 ·
not to get side tracked into technology but we are talking about gasser/diesel/electric and the movement of that technology - here is WHY the gov't has blessed the 5G technology so much and is embracing the abilities to move it forward even quicker - IE......sprint/Tmo merger - funding for companies to expand it quicker and $$$$ to borrow/grant to do it.

Cars will have the ability to be fully driven by automation due to the real time speed/technology of 5G, with that automation comes instantaneous data capture, where are the cars, where are the accidents, where are the people traveling, where did they go, how long were they here, what did they buy while they were there, where did they charge/fuel, how long did that route take, how many vehicles did they pass, were they speeding, blah blah blah you get the picture

with all of that data capture, we will be driven by market/advertising/control

we will lose the ability to travel freely, the automation will enable control of our automated driverless vehicle with 5G - we get in, it will require us to type in our destination, it routes us and all the other cars in the area to navigate around congestion because its real time - you will need to put in EVERY place you want to stop/go by on the way or you will not be able to do that.

you will get route options but at some point you will be directed w/out a choice due to lets say a major event like accident, sporting event, this is a convenience maybe but what about the 99% of the other time when you are being tracked like a criminal - we are VERY close to this, insurance agencies are a big lobby for this also for the data on their insured.

It you think america has lost their ever loving mind to technology and convenience we are paying a dear price for it. What our ancestors left behind is all falling in our laps due to our own foolish choices.

Some would debate already we have lost our freedom vs just losing it but there is no question our forefathers are rolling in their graves watching us implode.
 
#18 ·
Here in CO, everyone knows 5G is all about the governments desire for mind control of the population.

?
 
#19 ·
Here in Southern California, we already have 100% electric FedEx delivery trucks. Advantages are: low maintenance costs, low fuel costs, greater longevity, greater reliability, greater torque at lower rpms. Total costs over the lifetime of the truck is lower for electric than for diesel. Initial cost is higher for electric, but the savings on maintenance and fuel make the electric the better choice over the long run.
 
#20 ·
i dont think a battery powered f250/350 will drag a load of cows/excavator weighing 10K lbs very far, current distance on a standard battery pack on an F150 is 87 miles EMPTY

thats going to be a tough sell for most fellas trying to get something done
 
#21 ·
The range is up to 300 miles for the all electric F150, and it seems to be getting better all the time.

https://electrek.co/2019/01/16/ford-all-electric-f150-pickup-truck/

I didn't say that Ford already has an F250/350 that can pull 35,000 lbs for 500 miles before needing a recharge. But it won't be very many years before it will be available for sale.
 
#22 ·
i was trying to be graceful at 10K instead of extreme - standard battery pack on F150 is 87 miles but they are adding more batteries at an increased cost that only last 10yrs to the tune of 2500 for the standard battery replacements so add the extra cost for more mileage, add the extra cost for more batteries at purchase, then the extra cost for replacements at 10K miles and the added charge time for the bigger batteries you get more reasons to steer away.

That being said i get it, there are reasons to go there, and there are Battery powered Semi Trucks with a range of 500miles and a 90 minute - 80% charge that will take them another appx 300 miles - but for a consumer situation its a hard sell.

We dont want to have to wait on charging to do something, we dont want to wait on anything, we want to go and go when we want and do it now with NO restrictions. We dont want to have to jack with chargers in our homes or added expense to put one in. We dont want to have to find a place to charge, we dont want to be sitting in the middle of no where for 90 minutes to wait to be able to continue our trip or have to plan our trip so we make sure we can charge our vehicle to get where we are going - in 10 yrs maybe it will be better but by that time it will be something new in another direction and those vehicles will be sitting around with unusable batteries - IE...........how many ford/chevy electric/hybrids have already been abandoned? I will pick on the cMax a good friend i work with bought one and so did his dad on the same day - both got the extended batteries for extra mileage - while they like them and have had ok service from them - a few quirks and trips back to the dealer and a couple recalls. Biggest complaint.............loss of battery charge/distance loss. In the 4yrs he has lost 40% of his capacity so about 10 %/yr which is from the sounds of things is on track.

So the first year my truck goes 250 miles the next year it goes 225 and at 4 yrs im at 150 miles, im sorry but thats HORRIBLE and that is a tough sell.

Rarely is anyone that uses a pickup using it empty in ideal conditions without the a/c running or wind reduction or weight added so that 300 number is exaggerated to begin with. My friend and his dad out of the gate only got about 85% of the claimed distance BRAND NEW. In the winter its about 50% with the added friction of cold bearings/thick oils/heater/blower/add night time and lights and you are draining things fast.

You will get some tree huggers to bite and some thrill seekers and techy nerds but you wont get the majority of the folks that USE trucks to bite, we dont want to be inconvenienced by something we want improvement over waht we have which is EXACTLY why I said - you will get the adrenaline junkies to bite on a gasser with ego splitting Cu In displacement but the guys that are wanting reliability, cost savings, better mileage, will be the ones holding things back.

This is why i used the example of the 6.2 mileage, not picking on it or any other it was just the REAL data i had from a REAL person USING one and not getting the kids from soccer practice.

FORD has not done any better in 40 + yrs in regards to fuel consumption ( ie a 1975 460 with a 4bbl gets just as good as a 2018 6.2 with all its technological advances ) - we could likely say that for any other manufacturer as well.

Why is that? I smell cahoots..............

Its like a computer video game trying to figure out where we will end up on the road in an Electric Vehicle, it takes more than a math equation to figure out where we will be when we run out of power...........does anyone think people will flock to that?

I think not
 
#23 ·
Don, im not trying to be a poop here im trying to understand how the manufacturers drinking some environmental Kool-Aide imagine something like this will ever fly.

Its like they forgot all about the consumer and are so caught up in their agenda they have lost perspective but maybe i am just too narrow minded to see it
 
#24 ·
Volvo, Mercedes Benz, Mack, Peterbilt, Freightliner, Volkswagen all have already begun selling 100% electric trucks or are scheduled to start selling them this year. That's not 10 or 20 years in the pie in the sky future. That is right now. Yes, there is enormous demand for electric trucks.
 
#25 ·
Moved to Other Technical Questions. Getting a little far afield to be in 2017 & Up general questions.
 
#27 ·
A “picture” is worth a thousand words.
 

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#29 · (Edited)
Mercedes Benz has delivered ten electric trucks so far.
Tesla semi truck on the road real life conditions gets 600 miles range with 75,000 lb load.
Two freightliner eCascadia electric semis are built and will be put into use this month with 250 miles range.
Fedex has had electric trucks built by Navistar that last an entire eight hour shift before recharging in use on the road since 2010.
Electric vehicles have down time for recharging. Because of the decreased maintenance downtime for electric vehicles, the electric vehicles have the advantage over the lifetime of the vehicle.
 
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#30 ·
I did not realize they had decreased maintenance.
Interesting.
 
#33 ·
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