Black, Grey, & Dark Blue Cam Position Sensor Perdels Test - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain FAQ Frequently asked questions in the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain forum.

 4Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2010, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
woodnthings8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3,573
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Black, Grey, & Dark Blue Cam Position Sensor Perdels Test

I have been intrigued by the everlasting Cam Position Sensor issues since replacing one on a friend’s truck in a parking lot, due to a no start situation after driving fine only minutes before.

When I bought by ’02 the first thing I did was order a spare CPS and throw it in the glove box like so many other 7.3 owners. Over the years I have read many posts and looked at the data the posters provided to make conclusions. Well the other day I decided to order one of the new Dark Blue CPS to see if it would make a difference.

I have noticed a slight miss in the idle of my truck since the dealer put in the grey “recall” CPS. I can’t complain too much, since it seems to run fine everywhere else and my wife will tell you there is nothing wrong at idle, even if I “show” her the feeling of the miss that I feel. I have pondered throwing in the spare Black CPS, but I have also read where some guys are getting less MPG on the black one versus the Grey one.

So when my new Dark Blue CPS arrived in the mail from Tousley Ford (great deal by the way and fast shipping) I decided to break out the AutoEnginuity for some testing of Perdels and Cylinder Contribution Tests (CCT). I decided to run everything in the stock setting on my DP-Tuner to keep it as close to real as possible. Truck was warmed up to get the Engine Oil Temp to spec where Perdels could be read.

CPS Information:
Black CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-A
Grey CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-B
Dark Blue CPS P/N: F4TZ-12K073-C







Black CPS is marked as: 1825899
Grey CPS is marked as: 1876735C91
Dark Blue CPS is marked as: 1876736C91

One thing I did notice about the three different sensors is the body that goes inside the block is much larger on the original Black CPS compared to the two newer versions. Does this have something to do with why they read differently? The Black one has a diameter of 0.892” while the Grey and Dark Blue have a diameter of 0.720”. Maybe nothing since it is just a plastic case, but it did make me think it could have something to do with it.






Here is the data from the Perdels tests:










The Black CPS brought Cylinder 3 and 8 down to a respectable level. Idle was very smooth and CCT passed with no codes. Start took less time than normal although the engine was warmed up.

The Grey CPS performed the same as I have seen in other posts. Cylinder 3 was higher than most and Cylinder 8 was above the 5% limit which appears to make the CCT fail. The CCT test did fail and gave me P0284 Cylinder 8 Injector Circuit Contribution / Balance Fault. Idle seemed to be smooth but if I pay close attention and lean on the door sill, I can feel the slight miss. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up

The Dark Blue CPS surprised me! The Perdels for Cylinder # 3 were much higher than the Black CPS and even higher than the Grey CPS. Cylinder #8 was slightly less than the Grey CPS reading. The CCT test failed on Cylinder #3 & #8 with codes P0269 & P0284. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up.

I was a little confused why the Dark Blue CPS (which is claimed to be the “new better version”) did a little better on cylinder #8 but far worse on Cylinder #3. The truck has a much more noticeable miss at idle now too. I will leave it in for a few weeks to see if it performs any differently or has any noticeable effect of fuel mileage.

I guess I would be curious to have a batch of CPS, and then I could run each one to see if it is a manufacturing issue or a design issue. I imagine I will end up pulling out the Dark Blue CPS and install the Black CPS. If I see my mileage drop way down I will probably drop in the Grey CPS again as it idles much more smoothly.



I'm sure every truck will perform a little differently, but this is what I came up with. I did pull various other data during these tests but limited the Perdels and CCT tests as the purpose of this post.

Ken
2002 F-350 CCLB 4X4, HD4R100 , Riffraff FRx, Riffraff CAC Boots & PRI's, Bellowed Up-Pipes, 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Powerslot rotors,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, DP Tuner-F6, Autoenginuity, EEC-V Breakout Box, KCM S.S. HPX Line, S&B Filters intake, Quad Autometer gauge pod, Inovations canopy, Banks Big Head wastegate actuator, 6.0L Trans Cooler,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Zoo-dad, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, Cobra 29LTD/NW CB, DVD and always looking to do more....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by woodnthings8; 05-17-2010 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Dark Blue CPS P/N Change
woodnthings8 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-17-2010, 10:55 AM
Senior Member
 
tbpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 856
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks for posting up this information. I got one of the new blue cps from Ford and seems to running nice and smooth at idle. I don't have AE to do any testing. Was the black c99 from international? I had one on my truck but did not seem to go in and out very easily. I guess because the diameter is slightly bigger.

2000 7.3 powerstroke. PHP 6 position chip (stock,high idle,60tow,80dd,100hp,no start) . 6637 riffraff filter kit . AIH delete. Oil crossover. 6.0 tranny cooler. In tank mods. Wicked Wheel. EBPV delete. Walker 21470 muffler. Riffraff FRX

Last edited by tbpower; 07-22-2010 at 05:55 PM.
tbpower is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
woodnthings8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3,573
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
My spare Black CPS was bought off of ebay several years back. It came in the original Ford packaging. If I remember correct, I paid something like $45 for it back then. The going price then was $145 at the stealer.

The Black CPS was a slight bit harder to install and remove compared to the other two. Not hard but did require a better grip.

Ken
2002 F-350 CCLB 4X4, HD4R100 , Riffraff FRx, Riffraff CAC Boots & PRI's, Bellowed Up-Pipes, 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Powerslot rotors,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, DP Tuner-F6, Autoenginuity, EEC-V Breakout Box, KCM S.S. HPX Line, S&B Filters intake, Quad Autometer gauge pod, Inovations canopy, Banks Big Head wastegate actuator, 6.0L Trans Cooler,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Zoo-dad, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, Cobra 29LTD/NW CB, DVD and always looking to do more....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
woodnthings8 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-17-2010, 01:52 PM
Senior Member
 
nctuso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 185
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
interesting....

i just got my new blue one in the mail the other day, just waiting to install it to see what happens

2001 7.3L F-350
4 door long bed
-210,000 miles on the truck
-2nd motor with ~115k miles on it
4" Flo~Pro Turbo Back Exhaust, 6637 with Pete's Pre-Filter, Superchips 1700 Programmer-60hp Setting, Glow Shift EGT-Trans Temp-Boost gauges, trans triaccumulaor spring &valve kit, 285 Goodyear Duratrac Tires, Standadyne used most fill ups, 15-40W Valvoline every 3-4k
nctuso is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 02:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 65
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Woodnthings8,
I have wanted to try this:
The CPS has that metal bracket that holds it from turning in the hole it is mounted in. Almost like it is holding it in there at a certain angle.
Has rotating the CPS a few degrees +/- then running a Cylinder contribution test ever been tried?
Have always wondered if that would change anything.
brian6674 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
woodnthings8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3,573
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6674 View Post
Woodnthings8,
I have wanted to try this:
The CPS has that metal bracket that holds it from turning in the hole it is mounted in. Almost like it is holding it in there at a certain angle.
Has rotating the CPS a few degrees +/- then running a Cylinder contribution test ever been tried?
Have always wondered if that would change anything.

Don't know, but I imagine since it is a magnet in the end it should not matter. The sensor "reads" the gaps in the timing sensor disc. You may be able to rotate it a degree or two with the hole provided in the bracket. I suppose you could open the hole and make it move more. I just don't think it would matter much......but I could easily be wrong!

Ken
2002 F-350 CCLB 4X4, HD4R100 , Riffraff FRx, Riffraff CAC Boots & PRI's, Bellowed Up-Pipes, 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Powerslot rotors,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, DP Tuner-F6, Autoenginuity, EEC-V Breakout Box, KCM S.S. HPX Line, S&B Filters intake, Quad Autometer gauge pod, Inovations canopy, Banks Big Head wastegate actuator, 6.0L Trans Cooler,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Zoo-dad, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, Cobra 29LTD/NW CB, DVD and always looking to do more....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
woodnthings8 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 09:44 PM
Senior Member
 
nctuso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 185
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
For what it's worth...

Put the new dark blue/gray CPS in tonight and the idle is much smoother, i the truck doesn't vibrate nearly as much as it did before at idle. haven't had a chance to drive it yet. Truck sounds alot quieter too.

been reading up on alot of these threads and sounds like no matter the color its pretty hit and miss?!?

2001 7.3L F-350
4 door long bed
-210,000 miles on the truck
-2nd motor with ~115k miles on it
4" Flo~Pro Turbo Back Exhaust, 6637 with Pete's Pre-Filter, Superchips 1700 Programmer-60hp Setting, Glow Shift EGT-Trans Temp-Boost gauges, trans triaccumulaor spring &valve kit, 285 Goodyear Duratrac Tires, Standadyne used most fill ups, 15-40W Valvoline every 3-4k
nctuso is offline  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:27 AM
Senior Member
 
boertje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Northern Idaho
Posts: 329
My Photos: (29)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The truck does idle and run quieter, however, on a long trip of 2000 miles I definitely l lost a mile per gallon.

2001 VW NB TDI speed.
SOLD: '02 PSD Excursion LTD Ultimate 4X4 Mineral Gray, PSD badges, Banks Exhaust, AIS air filter, DP-Tuner, Fuel mods, V code (2C3Z-5310-HA, AKA 3C34-5310-ADA) and modified F code (6C34-5560-F aka 5C32-5560-FA) springs with Timbren rear overloads, Bilstein shocks, hellwig sway bar, Powerslot Cyro rotors with Hawk LTS pads, IH CPS part # 1826899C93 (original CPS).
boertje is offline  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:29 AM
Senior Member
 
aklim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hartford, WI USA
Posts: 2,619
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
So are we fighting over the last few blacks or is there still a supply of them?

01 Excursion 7.3L Powerstroke. Gauges with AIH Delete, AIS, CCV Mod, 4' MBRP, BTS Trans, 6.0L Trans Cooler and Intercooler, DP-Tuner F5 chip, ITP In Tank Mod and Boost Annihilator, Diesel Innovation's Regulated Fuel kit, BTS Big Oil system, GTP38R Turbo with 1.15 A/R housing and BPD Stage II AC injectors. Bilstein Shocks with U code front and A code Rear.
aklim is offline  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:20 AM
Senior Member
 
nctuso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 185
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
drove into work this morning and the motor was a lot quieter and idled alot better at traffic lights. I also had somewhat of a surging idle at a stop and that did not appear this morning. Seems to be runnin better but i'm not holding my breath

2001 7.3L F-350
4 door long bed
-210,000 miles on the truck
-2nd motor with ~115k miles on it
4" Flo~Pro Turbo Back Exhaust, 6637 with Pete's Pre-Filter, Superchips 1700 Programmer-60hp Setting, Glow Shift EGT-Trans Temp-Boost gauges, trans triaccumulaor spring &valve kit, 285 Goodyear Duratrac Tires, Standadyne used most fill ups, 15-40W Valvoline every 3-4k
nctuso is offline  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,310
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
So are we fighting over the last few blacks or is there still a supply of them?
There can't be much of a supply out there. I know Ford won't sell any if they have any left because of the liability with the recall and all. And I have tried a few IH's, and none of them have them. In fact, one of the IH dealers did a national stock check for them and came back with nothing. I found one in original Ford packaging a few months ago, but was surprised to see that Guzzle was selling them now, so I put in an order yesterday.

2001 F-350 Crew Cab XLT PSD 4x4, Long Bed, 6-speed, 3.73, Manual Transfer, Power TTT Mirrors, 122k miles.
1989 Toyota 4x4 xtracab SR5 V6, Beat to heck with 200k+ miles and still running strong.
catch&release is offline  
Old 05-20-2010, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
woodnthings8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3,573
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Well I ran the truck about 30 miles tonight with the Dark Blue CPS. It did start up quicker than the Grey one had in the past. It also seemed to idle smoother tonight than it did over the weekend. I didn't feel the noticeable miss like I did previously.

I will re-run the Perdels this weekend to see if has changed any ( which I doubt ).

Ken
2002 F-350 CCLB 4X4, HD4R100 , Riffraff FRx, Riffraff CAC Boots & PRI's, Bellowed Up-Pipes, 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Powerslot rotors,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, DP Tuner-F6, Autoenginuity, EEC-V Breakout Box, KCM S.S. HPX Line, S&B Filters intake, Quad Autometer gauge pod, Inovations canopy, Banks Big Head wastegate actuator, 6.0L Trans Cooler,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Zoo-dad, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, Cobra 29LTD/NW CB, DVD and always looking to do more....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
woodnthings8 is offline  
Old 05-20-2010, 10:14 PM
RT
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 14,198
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I just finished my first tank of fuel with the new dark blue installed. Average this tank was 19.3 which isn't significantly different from my 19 MPG avg before. But, it is peppier and idles smoother.

2003 F-250 XLT Crew Cab 7.3L, Chrome BigTex Grille Guard, Quad pillar - 3 ISSPRO gauges (trans, pyro, boost) and DP-Tuner F6; Roush fuel pressure / temperature / oil pressure gauges, Ford Severe Duty AIS, 31 row 6.0 transmission cooler, ScanGauge II, Marinco mod, Walker BTM, Full Force Stage 1 injectors

IF MY BODY IS EVER FOUND ON A JOGGING TRAIL JUST KNOW THAT I WAS MURDERED SOMEWHERE ELSE AND DUMPED THERE
RT is online now  
Old 05-21-2010, 10:41 AM
Senior Member
 
weitekampt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Central Illinois, Fisher
Posts: 663
My Photos: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
would be interesting to see what the old blue CPS would do in your tests. If I remember correctly, it was for the 466. I ran one for many miles and just took it out for a spare. Still behind the seat in a box. I heard on stock motors there was a improvement in idle quality, noise, and mileage. Again, I ran it for 20k miles or so, but then took it out because I have a DP Tune so I really didn't know what I am messing with. I think somebody, maybe even Jody did some testing on this. It did retard things a bit if I remember.

I just thought it would be cool to see how that old blue CPS would do in your tests.

Thanks for the info and graphs. Very intersting!

2013 F-350 Lariat Ultimate SRW FX4, Roll-n-Lock, Cen-Pe-Co 5W40, FleetGuard fuel and oil filters.

SOLD.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2002 Crew Cab SB 4X4, XLT Lariat, BTS Trans, 6.0 cooler, DP Tuner F-6 Stock, 60T, 80T 80E, AutoMeter gauges, AIH delete, AIS, Gen2WW, EBV delete w/pedistal, Zoodad, HX Crossover, 203 stat, Coolant filter kit, Rotella ELC, 5W40 CenPeCo Syn, Terra Grappler 285/70/17, Monroe Reflex shocks, intercooler wrap removed, Roll-n-Lock, Recon cab lights, 230,000, DrawTite brake controller, AIC module, BTM, Dieselsite boot kit and intercooler boots
weitekampt is offline  
Old 05-21-2010, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporting Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
 
woodnthings8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3,573
My Photos: (4)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by weitekampt View Post
I just thought it would be cool to see how that old blue CPS would do in your tests.

Well if you don't mind not having a spare, You could ship it to me, I will test it out and ship it back within a week or so (depending on my weekend work schedule) I will pay for the return shipping.

Then I will post the results in a similar format.

Just PM me if your interested.

Ken
2002 F-350 CCLB 4X4, HD4R100 , Riffraff FRx, Riffraff CAC Boots & PRI's, Bellowed Up-Pipes, 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Powerslot rotors,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, DP Tuner-F6, Autoenginuity, EEC-V Breakout Box, KCM S.S. HPX Line, S&B Filters intake, Quad Autometer gauge pod, Inovations canopy, Banks Big Head wastegate actuator, 6.0L Trans Cooler,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Zoo-dad, Dieselsite Coolant Filter, Cobra 29LTD/NW CB, DVD and always looking to do more....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
woodnthings8 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

  Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com > 1999-2007 Ford Super Duties > '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain > '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain FAQ

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Thread Tools



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome