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Black, Grey, & Dark Blue Cam Position Sensor Perdels Test

350K views 252 replies 80 participants last post by  Bosslom 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been intrigued by the everlasting Cam Position Sensor issues since replacing one on a friend’s truck in a parking lot, due to a no start situation after driving fine only minutes before.

When I bought by ’02 the first thing I did was order a spare CPS and throw it in the glove box like so many other 7.3 owners. Over the years I have read many posts and looked at the data the posters provided to make conclusions. Well the other day I decided to order one of the new Dark Blue CPS to see if it would make a difference.

I have noticed a slight miss in the idle of my truck since the dealer put in the grey “recall” CPS. I can’t complain too much, since it seems to run fine everywhere else and my wife will tell you there is nothing wrong at idle, even if I “show” her the feeling of the miss that I feel. I have pondered throwing in the spare Black CPS, but I have also read where some guys are getting less MPG on the black one versus the Grey one.

So when my new Dark Blue CPS arrived in the mail from Tousley Ford (great deal by the way and fast shipping) I decided to break out the AutoEnginuity for some testing of Perdels and Cylinder Contribution Tests (CCT). I decided to run everything in the stock setting on my DP-Tuner to keep it as close to real as possible. Truck was warmed up to get the Engine Oil Temp to spec where Perdels could be read.

CPS Information:
Black CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-A
Grey CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-B
Dark Blue CPS P/N: F4TZ-12K073-C







Black CPS is marked as: 1825899
Grey CPS is marked as: 1876735C91
Dark Blue CPS is marked as: 1876736C91

One thing I did notice about the three different sensors is the body that goes inside the block is much larger on the original Black CPS compared to the two newer versions. Does this have something to do with why they read differently? The Black one has a diameter of 0.892” while the Grey and Dark Blue have a diameter of 0.720”. Maybe nothing since it is just a plastic case, but it did make me think it could have something to do with it.






Here is the data from the Perdels tests:










The Black CPS brought Cylinder 3 and 8 down to a respectable level. Idle was very smooth and CCT passed with no codes. Start took less time than normal although the engine was warmed up.

The Grey CPS performed the same as I have seen in other posts. Cylinder 3 was higher than most and Cylinder 8 was above the 5% limit which appears to make the CCT fail. The CCT test did fail and gave me P0284 Cylinder 8 Injector Circuit Contribution / Balance Fault. Idle seemed to be smooth but if I pay close attention and lean on the door sill, I can feel the slight miss. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up

The Dark Blue CPS surprised me! The Perdels for Cylinder # 3 were much higher than the Black CPS and even higher than the Grey CPS. Cylinder #8 was slightly less than the Grey CPS reading. The CCT test failed on Cylinder #3 & #8 with codes P0269 & P0284. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up.

I was a little confused why the Dark Blue CPS (which is claimed to be the “new better version”) did a little better on cylinder #8 but far worse on Cylinder #3. The truck has a much more noticeable miss at idle now too. I will leave it in for a few weeks to see if it performs any differently or has any noticeable effect of fuel mileage.

I guess I would be curious to have a batch of CPS, and then I could run each one to see if it is a manufacturing issue or a design issue. I imagine I will end up pulling out the Dark Blue CPS and install the Black CPS. If I see my mileage drop way down I will probably drop in the Grey CPS again as it idles much more smoothly.



I'm sure every truck will perform a little differently, but this is what I came up with. I did pull various other data during these tests but limited the Perdels and CCT tests as the purpose of this post.
 
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#40 ·
I got my dark blue CPS from Tousley Ford online for under $19. You should try to check the PERDELS and see what kind of number you are seeing on #8. Anything above 4% will fail a CCT for that cylinder.

I will only get a code on mine when I run the CCT. Except with the black CPS.

What code are you getting for #8? Is it when you command a CCT? When the injectors rebuilt, did you keep #8 the same?
 
#41 ·
To not hijack this thread - I started my own.

On my truck in there is an AE injector in #8 - all others are AC, I've been told this was done because the AE is delayed and this would help with the firing order issue with 8 following 6 which might starve 8 - I've also been told this was to help with idle noise.

Because of this - #8 is the only injector I can tell you with absolute certainty is in the same cylinder it came out of.

I'm not sure how to run the PARDEL test - I have access to the ford NGS and another ford type scanner - I don't have any aftermarket scanners / programmers.
 
#42 ·
You're other injector solenoids should be labeled AD instead of AC. If you have AC injectors in there, someone has changed out the injectors. Why they would switch to AC codes and leave the AE is beyond me. Is there an oil crossover line installed in your engine?

Perdel or rotational velocity readings are a percent change that you can monitor while watching live data. Generally over 5% is where you start to get concerned.

Where did your code come from? Was it there when the scanner was plugged in, or did you have to run a CCT first?
 
#43 ·
I have AD injectors in mine. I changed out #8 7 years ago to AD. I just got my hands on a black original CPS and I can't believe how this thing runs. Even my 15 year old daughter noticed how smooth the X runs. What the heck is Ford thinking with these CPS revisions? Just ordered a spare black original for the glove box and will be ditching the gray ones in favor for the black originals.
 
#44 ·
They were thinking that when the CPS went out, customers ***** at the price of the black one. Now they gave you the cheap unit and as they say, you get what you paid for.
 
#45 ·
Got mine from Guzzle.
 
#46 ·
I have not had a chance to pull the valve cover yet - my 5 month old has had other plans for my time.... hopefully he'll be into cars when he's older.

I may have mis-spoke on the injector code for the other 7 - I know for sure the one next to the firewall on the driver side is AE - and has a blue connector for the harness plug - all the others have tan, several were marked "reman" already, and the UVCH looked pretty new to me as well.

Hopefully I will have time to run a compression test in the next few days - that will tell me if it's mechanical or not.

If the compression checks OK - I may swap the #8 injector to another hole and see if the CCT follows it - if so - I know it's the injetor - if not.... I'm starting to wonder if it's time to rebuild / replace the IPR, or - time to replace the HPOP?

The change from gray to old black CPS made no difference for me as far as the miss goes.
 
#47 ·
Well, just ordered a new dark blue/charcoal CPS from Tousley. Sure hope this solves my idle miss. It was silky smooth especially after I did the HX crossover, then I had the recall. Always thought it sucked after that. I ordered a extra O-ring so I can have the gray one as a spare. Normally the O-ring is mashed when I pull them out.

So my fingers are crossed that this helps. I have spend $20 in worse ways.
 
#48 ·
Cured my idle...

Ok guys, here is my non-scientific personal experience with the CPS's...
I purchased my truck in Feb 2007. It had the black CPS and it ran great. I saw all the hype about replacing it with the "new" gray one back then (before the recall), so I went out and bought 2 of them. One to replace the black one, and one for a spare. That was 2 years ago and about 10,000 miles ago. (I don't put that many miles on my truck). Ever since I've had the GRAY CPS in, I've had a rough idle, but never related it to the CPS. I then read this thread a few days ago, and for me, if nothing else, it was worth the gamble to possibly get rid of my rough idle. So $23.00 later ($19.00 + shipping) from Tousley Ford, and only 2 days...I got my new Charcoal ( F4TZ-12K073-C ) CPS in the mail. Got out my 10mm socket, extension and ratchet that I always keep in my truck (along with my old black CPS, and my new unused GRAY CPS), and changed it out. My rough idle is GONE!!! I have no idea about mileage, power, blah, blah, but what I can say is that it idles a LOT smoother with the new CPS.
So now I have my original (known good) BLACK CPS, my known good GRAY CPS, my new unused GRAY CPS all as spares, and my new CHARCOAL CPS installed in the truck. I will not be worried about being stranded due to a CPS problem. Like I said, I didn't measure any Perdels, readings, or anything, I just installed in and started it, and noticed that my idle is a LOT smoother. $23.00 well spent in my book.
Randy
 
#56 ·
Ok guys, here is my non-scientific personal experience with the CPS's...
I purchased my truck in Feb 2007. It had the black CPS and it ran great. I saw all the hype about replacing it with the "new" gray one back then (before the recall), so I went out and bought 2 of them. One to replace the black one, and one for a spare. That was 2 years ago and about 10,000 miles ago. (I don't put that many miles on my truck). Ever since I've had the GRAY CPS in, I've had a rough idle, but never related it to the CPS. I then read this thread a few days ago, and for me, if nothing else, it was worth the gamble to possibly get rid of my rough idle. So $23.00 later ($19.00 + shipping) from Tousley Ford, and only 2 days...I got my new Charcoal ( F4TZ-12K073-C ) CPS in the mail. Got out my 10mm socket, extension and ratchet that I always keep in my truck (along with my old black CPS, and my new unused GRAY CPS), and changed it out. My rough idle is GONE!!! I have no idea about mileage, power, blah, blah, but what I can say is that it idles a LOT smoother with the new CPS.
So now I have my original (known good) BLACK CPS, my known good GRAY CPS, my new unused GRAY CPS all as spares, and my new CHARCOAL CPS installed in the truck. I will not be worried about being stranded due to a CPS problem. Like I said, I didn't measure any Perdels, readings, or anything, I just installed in and started it, and noticed that my idle is a LOT smoother. $23.00 well spent in my book.
Randy
Just curious why you didn't just throw the original black CPS in there to try? What I found out it yes indeed with the charcoal CPS the idle was much smoother and the engine quieter but my highway mileage seemed to suffer about 1-1.5 mpg. Gambled and bought the original black one from guzzle orings for 48bux (should have kept my old ones) which seemed to cure the roughish idle, seems to have more seat of the pants and overall just seems to run stronger. Over the weekend I am doing a 1000 mile road trip so it will be interesting to see how my mileage does.
Anyway now I have 2 gray, one charcoal and 2 black originals (one new and in the box as spare).
 
#49 ·
Hey, thanks for the update. I got my cps from tousley the next day. Great service to say the least. I am going to throw mine in tonight and hopefully see the same results.

Thanks for posting!!!
 
#54 ·
re



You would probably want to use some di-electric grease to prevent corrosion. I don't think the intent of this thread was to promote the new cps which was actually for the the older trucks. I would be more inclined to get or keep an original cps.
 
#51 ·
Anyone have a link for the Tousley Ford CPS?
 
#52 ·
Try this: TOUSLEY FORD PARTS :thumbsup: put in P/N F4TZ-12K073-C
and be sure to select Ford!!!
 
#53 ·
If you do a search for thread called " may dyno today " or go to the E-series van forum and see it by van_350 sd he talks about the 3 CPS and how you can measure the air gap. He has a depth gauge and talks about how the different lengths do matter i guess you can get shims and that the air gap should be .025 to .030 his van is a 2000 7.3
 
#57 ·
I never really associated the rough idle with the Gray CPS until I read these recent threads. I was going to put the the original black CPS back in just to try it, but those are supposedly supposed to be defective (recall and all...). Each time I take my truck out, it's pulling a trailer, and I have my family with me, and it's up and down mountain passes heading to or from the lake. It's very likely that my black CPS is one of the "ok" ones, since it was working fine when I took it out, but I can't get myself to take the chance! I don't want to be heading down a steep grade pulling a boat and have my black recall CPS go out! I'm just keeping it around for diagnostic purposes if I ever need it!

Anyway, the $19 price tag was cheap enough to try, and it worked. I'll keep my eye on the mileage to see what if any change the new CPS makes to my mileage. I guess if the mileage is too terrible...I'll put the gray one back in and live withthe rough idle! Usually, if I have a problem, but I know what it is...it doesn't bug me as bad. Now that I know the gray CPS was the cause of my rough idle...I could probably live with it.


Randy
 
#59 ·
I was going to put the the original black CPS back in just to try it, but those are supposedly supposed to be defective (recall and all...). Each time I take my truck out, it's pulling a trailer, and I have my family with me, and it's up and down mountain passes heading to or from the lake. It's very likely that my black CPS is one of the "ok" ones, since it was working fine when I took it out, but I can't get myself to take the chance! I don't want to be heading down a steep grade pulling a boat and have my black recall CPS go out!
Randy
x2 on this...I am having an issue with a vibration and a very slight engine knock. I was so tempted to order one of the original black CPS from Guzzle's, but to me it just isn't worth the risk of having it go out with my family in the truck. I have the grey one right now, and I just ordered one of the dark blue ones from Tousley. The thing that's weird is that when I called up there and was talking with the guy on the phone from Tousley about it, he said the ones they are selling now are the original black ones because that's the only ones they can get to clear up the issues with cylinder 8...:scratchhead: He also said the black ones that they are selling now do not have the issue that would cause the motor to shut down unexpectedly. So I don't know if he just doesn't know what he's talking about or what? I guess i'll just have to see what ends up coming in the mail...
 
#58 ·
Threw my new one in last night. Idled ok, but nothing to shake a stick at. I did notice that my "knock" is gone. Smoothed out a bit.

Just hope that my MPG doesn't go in the tank.
 
#60 ·
twin turbo

Hey all,
Does somebody have a picture of what a twin turbo setup on a 99 7.3 might look like. I've heard alot about them on Dodges but none for the 7.3 Is it possible?
Thanks for the help.
 
#63 ·
I will say that it does look black so that may be why he is calling it "black". I had to stare at it for a minute too.

I finally got to drive it for 60 miles or so. I think it is a bit smoother, but nothing that is earth shattering. I still have a bit of a vibration/miss, but I have to remember that I have almost 200k miles on this truck with original injectors. I may have a mechanical issue going on with some of them. I will have no mileage reports for a long time because the boat or camper will be hooked up until August. I did get rid of the knock with this new sensor. Overall, probably worth the $23 bucks. Even though the gray one is a recall CPS that ford put in there, I can't possibly see why I would leave it in there if it is causing any problems such as knock or poor idle quality. I know that the black one will just shut off and that isn't good either. It is probably the best one out there, but for 2X the money, I will try this charcoal colored one.

We have to remember that it is a electronic sensor and they can ALL fail at anytime no matter what color they are.

Just trying to give some information for all out there.
 
#65 ·
I just put the new dark blue CPS in this morning. The vibration I was feeling with the grey one has decreased considerably, however, the slight engine knock still seems to be there. It did seem to quiet down the motor a bit as others have reported. Hopefully my fuel mileage will increase a bit.
 
#66 ·
Keep us posted. I am keeping an eye on mine too. I have towing trip planned in the middle of July. I should be able to post some results then.
 
#67 ·
Just drove 900 miles today with the original black CPS and man does that engine run well. It is just smooth and the is all there. Seems to run stronger than the recall unit.
 
#68 ·
I have two "original" black pre recall CPS? International PN 1821720C99
I just hope that when/if it fails it will be at an idle or low speed. The original black ones were recalled for flat failing? Never really heard what failure mode they had, 70 MPH on highway and engine dies or stalls at dead idle. I am questioning if I want to keep using this black on, it would suck to have the engine die on the highway while towing my boat. Just how did the original BLACK ones fail, any warning first?
 
#73 ·
I have two "original" black pre recall CPS? International PN 1821720C99
The C99's weren't the originals for the '99-'03s, they were for the '94-'96s. The originals were IH 1825899C93, which is the exact same CPS that Ford sold as the original in Ford packaging........they even have the IH part number on them.
 
#69 ·
I just put in the Tousley Ford dark blue CPS and it definitely made a difference in the idle and made the motor a tad bit quieter. It was worth the change.
 
#70 ·
Most of the people I knew that had failures were on start-up. They would drive it normal, shut it down, come out and the truck wouldn't run or would run like it was on three sick cylinders. I only know of one person who was cruising down the highway and then the truck started running bad. He pulled over and NO-START.

I know there must have been trucks dying on the road, or Ford wouldn't have had a Safety Recall. Maybe someone just pushed hard enough for them to get pressured into it though. IIRC the recall was based on the idea if you pulled out into traffic or were driving and it just shut down you could be harmed.

Here is what Ford posted about the recall:

"There have been 14 allegations of minor accidents or loss of control concerns, but no injuries due to this concern in over 10 years of vehicle service and billions of miles driven."
 
#71 ·
Most of the people I knew that had failures were on start-up. They would drive it normal, shut it down, come out and the truck wouldn't run or would run like it was on three sick cylinders. I only know of one person who was cruising down the highway and then the truck started running bad. He pulled over and NO-START.

I know there must have been trucks dying on the road, or Ford wouldn't have had a Safety Recall. Maybe someone just pushed hard enough for them to get pressured into it though. IIRC the recall was based on the idea if you pulled out into traffic or were driving and it just shut down you could be harmed.

Here is what Ford posted about the recall:

"There have been 14 allegations of minor accidents or loss of control concerns, but no injuries due to this concern in over 10 years of vehicle service and billions of miles driven."

I know that on my first CPS replacement, I was going around a curve on one of our major arteries in town and my truck just died. Going into a curve with no power what so ever is a little bit scary. I was able to pull on the shoulder and get someone out there that knew what what was going on and got the CPS replaced and went on my way. I can just imagine going down the road at 70 in traffic and you lose all power. I can only imagine my brithches getting a little tight..Lol. Hopefully that doesn't happen to anyone.
 
#74 ·
I have a 2000 CC, dually. I bought this truck in 2006 to pull my 12,000 lb 5th wheel RV. It was completely stock when purchased. Running solo, I could get 17-18 mpg's highway. Pulling the RV 10.5 to 11 mpg highway. In 2008 I had to rpl the turbo pedestal and HPOP seals. The air filter tabs broken while re-assembly. I did the DIY intake conversion rather than buy the OEM. I then installed the BTM. Heck, I was working on the truck anyway. After those two mods, my mileage decreased to 16 mpg's solo and 9 mpg's towing. I scratched my head wondering how did that work. After reading here on the forum about the cps situation, I remembered that I took my truck into Ford for the recall. I just installed the dark blue CPS from Tousley Ford and now I have an excuse to hit the road. It will be interesting to see the results. The engine does appear to run quieter. Time will tell if I regain the MPG's.
 
#78 ·
I guess you can, some do. But every time I tried it in my truck I lost 2.5mpg consistently. It did quiet the engine quite a bit, but I also had a bunch of chatter coming from my shifter (6-speed) with that CPS. I'm back to using the original black now and the truck runs great.
 
#76 ·
I guess I will give the new one a try I don't trust the old black CPS I had 2 go out before the recall and one was in a tunnel heading back from the coast backed up traffic a long ways the next one went out up in the hills when I had my 3 year old with me and no phone service. anyone have milage results yet for the new one.
 
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