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Black, Grey, & Dark Blue Cam Position Sensor Perdels Test

350K views 252 replies 80 participants last post by  Bosslom 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been intrigued by the everlasting Cam Position Sensor issues since replacing one on a friend’s truck in a parking lot, due to a no start situation after driving fine only minutes before.

When I bought by ’02 the first thing I did was order a spare CPS and throw it in the glove box like so many other 7.3 owners. Over the years I have read many posts and looked at the data the posters provided to make conclusions. Well the other day I decided to order one of the new Dark Blue CPS to see if it would make a difference.

I have noticed a slight miss in the idle of my truck since the dealer put in the grey “recall” CPS. I can’t complain too much, since it seems to run fine everywhere else and my wife will tell you there is nothing wrong at idle, even if I “show” her the feeling of the miss that I feel. I have pondered throwing in the spare Black CPS, but I have also read where some guys are getting less MPG on the black one versus the Grey one.

So when my new Dark Blue CPS arrived in the mail from Tousley Ford (great deal by the way and fast shipping) I decided to break out the AutoEnginuity for some testing of Perdels and Cylinder Contribution Tests (CCT). I decided to run everything in the stock setting on my DP-Tuner to keep it as close to real as possible. Truck was warmed up to get the Engine Oil Temp to spec where Perdels could be read.

CPS Information:
Black CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-A
Grey CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-B
Dark Blue CPS P/N: F4TZ-12K073-C







Black CPS is marked as: 1825899
Grey CPS is marked as: 1876735C91
Dark Blue CPS is marked as: 1876736C91

One thing I did notice about the three different sensors is the body that goes inside the block is much larger on the original Black CPS compared to the two newer versions. Does this have something to do with why they read differently? The Black one has a diameter of 0.892” while the Grey and Dark Blue have a diameter of 0.720”. Maybe nothing since it is just a plastic case, but it did make me think it could have something to do with it.






Here is the data from the Perdels tests:










The Black CPS brought Cylinder 3 and 8 down to a respectable level. Idle was very smooth and CCT passed with no codes. Start took less time than normal although the engine was warmed up.

The Grey CPS performed the same as I have seen in other posts. Cylinder 3 was higher than most and Cylinder 8 was above the 5% limit which appears to make the CCT fail. The CCT test did fail and gave me P0284 Cylinder 8 Injector Circuit Contribution / Balance Fault. Idle seemed to be smooth but if I pay close attention and lean on the door sill, I can feel the slight miss. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up

The Dark Blue CPS surprised me! The Perdels for Cylinder # 3 were much higher than the Black CPS and even higher than the Grey CPS. Cylinder #8 was slightly less than the Grey CPS reading. The CCT test failed on Cylinder #3 & #8 with codes P0269 & P0284. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up.

I was a little confused why the Dark Blue CPS (which is claimed to be the “new better version”) did a little better on cylinder #8 but far worse on Cylinder #3. The truck has a much more noticeable miss at idle now too. I will leave it in for a few weeks to see if it performs any differently or has any noticeable effect of fuel mileage.

I guess I would be curious to have a batch of CPS, and then I could run each one to see if it is a manufacturing issue or a design issue. I imagine I will end up pulling out the Dark Blue CPS and install the Black CPS. If I see my mileage drop way down I will probably drop in the Grey CPS again as it idles much more smoothly.



I'm sure every truck will perform a little differently, but this is what I came up with. I did pull various other data during these tests but limited the Perdels and CCT tests as the purpose of this post.
 
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#77 ·
I just ran from FL to SC and got mid 16 running the *36 CPS. I got high 17s running the *99 black CPS, and the best I ever had was with the old black CPS (almost 19).
I love the starting and low rpm smoothness, but I could feel the sluggishness trying to accelerate at hwy speeds. I am also blowing more black smoke.
Back to the *99 and hope Ford gets a decent part out soon. Perhaps try the *35?
 
#79 ·
C&R,
Any idea why you lost MPG? Mine seems to run very well with this CPS and I have got high 17 on hwy with it but I don't have a real baseline of MPG as back in the day this one one of the first changes I made was Gray to Black. I wonder if there will be another round of new design CPS coming sometime?
 
#80 ·
C&R,
Any idea why you lost MPG?
It seems that every truck is different as far as how they run with the different CPS's. However, from all the reading I've done on the internet about all the different ones, it appears that the reason the trucks run smoother is that the different CPS's change the timing. I did read somewhere awhile back that the 7.3L runs most efficiently when it is at its loudest.:dunno:
 
#82 ·
Well, nothing like making this whole process as complicated as possible.:icon_rolleyes:

You'd think the engineers would have figured this whole thing out by now and come up with a decent CPS (CMP) that works for all. If each engine is different and needs "shimming" to operate within that range, well......that's a real cluster. Wonder why there is no C93 (original '99-'03 CMP) on their chart?
 
#83 ·
The odd thing I found with my gray and black CMP sensors is the black one is longer by about .008-.010" than the gray one. So I am confused how shimming a shorter gray CPS will correct the gap? Too me, if the black OEM one was installed properly to achieve the gap the shim should have been in place. I will also assume International is the one installing them, not Ford.

I know I read somewhere the Black CMP sensors were longer and the thought was; They were too close to the plate and that was creating a interference, which obviously would create a failure. IIRC something was sent out to the sealers to check the CMP sensor and shim it .010" to provide clearance.

If the gray one is shorter, shimming will only make it shorter. Maybe the black one sits 0.015"-.020" off of the plate. Then a shim would help. Now that the new ones were designed shorter, the gap may need to be fine tuned? I think I will just pick up a shim kit and start throwing in shims starting at the lowest thickness, until I either pass the CCT or it starts running rough.
 
#84 ·
Just yesterday I installed the Blue/graphite CPS I ordered from Tooley Ford. Wow, what a difference. Immediately the idle was noticeably smoother, the engine at idle is quieter, and just runs better in general. I was having a problem with surging while driving at slow speeds ie.. 35mph and under. Its gone and drives like a new truck. Old gray cps in the trash.

By the way, what truck model was the Blue/Graphite CPS originally built for?
 
#85 ·
the whole issue is frustating as some experience rougher running or worse mileage with new cps. Very inconsistent which does support the need to shim to each engine.
 
#86 ·
Replaced the gray recall CPS with an black IH nos CPS last weekend in my 99 F350 dually 410 rear 4x4 CC truck. The gray seemed to idle quieter, but was sluggish on off idle acceleration, and mileage was kind of mediocre (12-15 mpg). The black one (IH Part #1825899C93) gives it crisper off idle performance, seems to run alittle better overall. The engine is noiser than with the gray recall CPS. Seems to start alittle faster. Mileage seems to have gone up a bit, especially around town driving. Limited highway mileage seems to have gone up as long as I keep it in the sweet spot of rpms. I have another black nos CPS I bought previously. I am going to install it after I run this one a few weeks. Will post any changes when I install that one.
 
#87 ·
The CPS on my 02 quit as I was turning in an intersection about 15 MPH. Very hard to steer at that speed. ford replaced it with a unit that was then recalled
 
#89 ·
wow excellent thread! 7.3 noob learning a lot here :thumbsup: will go check my cps tonight. i didn't feel any idle/knock issues so far so it's probably running the original black cps. is it preferable to replace that with the new blue/gray one or just keep the blue/gray as spare and replace if the black one dies on me?
 
#90 ·
If you have the original black one, you do take the chance that it may fail at an inopportune time. If you carry a spare and a 10 mm wrench, you can change it in about 5-10 minutes. A few people have had them fail when pulling out into traffic or times that are not safe, so you do take a small risk running it.

The gray CPS was Ford's answer to these failures. Unfortunately it creates some issues and "phantom codes". It may be safer to install, but like any electrical device can fail at any time.

The new dark blue CPS has not been out long enough for any longevity tests to be done yet. I have had mine in since the start of this thread and have put maybe 1000 miles on it. It seems to work good, minus the CCT failing.

As long as you run with a spare, and you don't have a family member who could get stranded far away, I would run anyone of them. The black one would be my preference for idle characteristics and drive ability though.
 
#91 · (Edited)
Cool.. I'm the only one that drives my truck and can swap the spare in if needed. Will order the new blue one from tousely as a spare.

edit: any concerns about the CCT failing? what does that mean in practical terms?
 
#93 ·
My 2001 F250 with the 6speed throws a p0308 code and turns on the SES light with the gray or blue CPS in it. Both the grey and blue CPS fails the CCT test under AE.

It runs totally fine with the black CPS in it, and passes the CCT test with flying colors.

The dealership who did the recall said "no way! it's a bad injector!"

The thing that make me angry is I have to SMOG check this next year.. With a SES light on, it's a total no go.
 
#94 ·
My 2001 F250 with the 6speed throws a p0308 code and turns on the SES light
What are the Perdels readings with a gray or dark blue CPS? The manual truck throw a P0308 code when Perdels exceed 4% while the Automagics can go up to 9% before a code is thrown.

The thing that make me angry is I have to SMOG check this next year.. With a SES light on, it's a total no go.
I would run the black on all the time if I didn't get a SEL. Did the dealer put in the gray CPS as part of a recall, and if so did it pass then?
 
#95 · (Edited)
What are the Perdels readings with a gray or dark blue CPS? The manual truck throw a P0308 code when Perdels exceed 4% while the Automagics can go up to 9% before a code is thrown.
It was just over 4% on cylinder 8 for both the grey and dark blue CPS; black is down under 4%. This is also the 275hp engine with California Emissions. I can hookup AE and get perdels readings if desired.

I would run the black on all the time if I didn't get a SEL. Did the dealer put in the gray CPS as part of a recall, and if so did it pass then?
With in a few hours of having the recall performed, I had a SES and p0308 code. The grey also causes longer starter cranking, bad gas milage, and a poor idle on my truck. The new dark blue one does better starting, and a smoother idle, but it still causes a p0308 code.

The Ford service writer said it was impossible for the grey CPS to cause a p0308, and wanted $160 to just look at it. I asked if they hook the truck up to the Ford scanner after replacing the CPS and make sure it's all ok, and he said 'no'.

I went and bought the AE scanner, and told them no way I'm going to pay for them $160 to tell me to replace the #8 injector, when everyone else is complaining about the grey CPS. I when I finally found someone selling a brand new black one, I immediately bought one, and now the problem has disappeared.

I'm looking for a way to contact Ford about this whole mess, and see what they have to say.. I think the next step is the local Ford rep, just above the dealer.
 
#97 ·
Hmm, more #8 injector issues. I wonder if there is any relationship to the #8 failing after installing a gray cps and it being the LL injector that was installed to fix the cackle issue.
 
#103 ·
This issue is very frustrating because I don't have a Ford Degree and don't understand most of what is going on here. I do know my truck does not run for long. I did the Ford recall on mine 2 years ago then my mechanic last month said it threw a code and he replaced the grey one with another grey one. It still does not run. I am afraid to drive it because it fails in traffic or at the most life threatening times available. I am still looking at the CPS because when it does die and I try to start it, I don't get the movement in the tach.

With all the discussion on colors of CPS units, are all the different colors from the same manufacturer? Is buying one from IH a better bet like this one?Improved Blue CPS for 7.3L Ford Powerstroke Diesel
 
#105 ·
This issue is very frustrating because I don't have a Ford Degree and don't understand most of what is going on here. I do know my truck does not run for long. I did the Ford recall on mine 2 years ago then my mechanic last month said it threw a code and he replaced the grey one with another grey one. It still does not run. I am afraid to drive it because it fails in traffic or at the most life threatening times available. I am still looking at the CPS because when it does die and I try to start it, I don't get the movement in the tach.

With all the discussion on colors of CPS units, are all the different colors from the same manufacturer? Is buying one from IH a better bet like this one?Improved Blue CPS for 7.3L Ford Powerstroke Diesel
Did they ever check the wires under the Valve cover? My truck was doin that stuff a few years back it would crap out run fine for about 6 months do it again run fine for almost a year and do it again kept throwin a code for the CPS took it too a different shop they said they have seen this before and it was the harnesses under the Valve cover were vibrating loose and every once and a wile it would make the truck die They put a shim kit under the valve cover harnesses and replaced the wires has ran good ever since. JUst a thought for somethin to look into.
 
#107 ·
I ran the Black one for awhile and I also ran the Dark Blue both towing and empty. Mileage was a little bit better with the black one than the Dark Blue, but hard to really tell as each trip was different enough that the roads could have made the difference. I towed with both and honestly cannot tell much of a difference power wise. I have run the Perdels a few times since then with the Dark Blue and it is staying pretty much the same. I still notice a slight roughness at idle, but no difference when driving.
 
#108 ·
So did you leave the dark blue on in, since it is supposed to be a better choice if a failure occurrs?
I'd like to get some of the mileage back as I am using the gray one which I installed about 18 months ago. But the black one had better perdal #'s on your comparison so I am leaning torward that over the dark blue.
 
#109 ·
I have the Dark Blue one in now, and have had it in since mid-August. I think I would run the black one if you have one. The Dark Blue and the Gray both will work, but the original Black one just provides a smoother idle.

Since running my original tests I have come to the conclusion that the pick-up in the black one is superior to the others. Being a few thousandths of an inch longer doesn't hurt it either. I think this makes for a better signal returned to the PCM. The Perdels tell the truth and I can live with the off chance it fails and I have two spares in the glovebox. I know Riffraff Diesel and Diesel O-rings.com both had black sensors available for sale, Not sure if they still do or not.
 
#110 ·
I ran the original black until I started having engine problems. It was usually when first starting up in the morning but while in drive the engine would stop and all the dash lights would come on and then it would start up again (maybe due to the fact that the manual tranny was still engaged and it was push-starting itself?). Either way, this happened two or three times in a week so I took it to the dealer and had the recall done. That stopped my problems.

With the grey CPS installed I've noticed that the engine runs much worse at idle, almost with a slight lope. But it's better than being stranded on the side of the road.
 
#113 ·
I had trouble with an aftermarket CPS.
I tossed it out and I am running the grey ford one at the moment.
I am keeping very accurate book on what I do with the truck including fuel.
So I know exactly how much she used in the last 70,000 km.
I have black CPS on order at the moment and I am curious on what my mileage is going to do.
 
#114 · (Edited)
Not sure if any of you guys are using it yet, but IH# 1876736C91.

Its dark grey, with a purple O-ring. I had heard alot of good about it, so I took out my old grey (ford) cps and put in this one. My truck has never idled, nor ran so smooth. It's amazing.
Quote above is from the other big Powerstroke site, the thread is titled: New CPS

EDIT: But, going by your 1st post on page 1, not so sure his findings are true in all cases.

This is an International Part#, note it's dark grey, not light grey like the Ford one.

Sorry if this is already mentioned in this thread, I looked for it, but didn't see it.
 
#115 ·
Quote above is from the other big Powerstroke site, the thread is titled: New CPS

This is an International Part#, note it's dark grey, not light grey like the Ford one.

Sorry if this is already mentioned in this thread, I looked for it, but didn't see it.

Yep it is on the first page post #1

Dark Blue CPS is marked as: 1876736C91
 
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