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CPS Testing Information

121K views 126 replies 38 participants last post by  ArcticDriver 
#1 ·
What type of CPS Cam Position Sensor do you have?

The old, original Black units are the best, the International
1825899C93 that were manufactured around 2000 to 2003.

The new Ford/IH Gray or blue units suck, they have about 1/8"
of plastic covering the hall sensor and they are not centered,
they are off-center almost 1/8" throwing the timing way off
giving high EGT's and poor fuel economy.

Here is a new IH Blue CPS, I cut the end plastic off that was 1/8" thick
and put silicone around the sensor. Notice how the sensor is off set?


Here is a photo of a Borg Warner CPS that has a much better hall sensor,
USA made and it's centered. I cut them all open to inspect what type each
sensor uses and if they were centered or off-set.




Here is the old stock "the best" CPS from 2000 NOS stock, notice the sensor is centered and there is no plastic covering the sensor.




Here is a pic of a CPS 'Air Gap' instrument, it measures the gap.
Some engines need to be shimmed the 466 for instance, and even the
7.3L works better with 1 or 2 shims sometimes. Depends on the type of
CPS you are using. If you don't have this 300.00+ instrument you can simply
add a single shim to your CPS and see how it runs. You may or may not notice a difference without software ie: AutoEnginuity. My Van seems to be dialed-in using one shim with an old, original Black CPS.



Here is a pic of how many CPS I tested and cut open.



The CPS is specified at about 18#s ft. torque to install it.

This is the one most sensitive, important parts of the vehicle
that will either make it run like a vette or a ****box.


When you look at this pic notice the cam sensor counts the teeth
as the wheel spins, it counts the smallest tooth between 5-6 (It's so small you cannot write on it) and the largest
tooth at 11 and this thing is spinning like crazy. This is responsible for the timing, fuel delivery, amount of fuel etc. So the new CPS that have the 1/8" of plastic covering the hall sensor are already at a disadvantage. The CPS has a magnetic hall sensor and it counts the teeth. It needs to count them perfectly.

On the old, original Black CPS the magnetic hall sensor has such a strong magnet you can pick up small metal objects with it, like a small key, or large nail clippers etc. I noticed the stronger the magnetic signal, the better the CPS can count the teeth correctly thus giving you optimum performance.

the new Blue or gray CPS from Ford/IH have such a weak magnetic strength due to the 1/8" plastic covering the sensor and the fact the sensor is off-set from center, it's wasting so much fuel and causing high EGT's.




To sum it up,

If you have one of the new CPS units in your truck, try to either get a new Borg Warner black unit or an old International 1825899C93.

When you call IH to get this part#, it will refer you to the new CPS
that is the poor design. You will need to get an old stock unit.

And the Borg Warner BWD unit only has about 1/32" of thin plastic
covering the end cap on the hall sensor and it's only blocking the signal a little bit. But you can still cut the end off with a dremmil tool like I did to expose the hall sensor and the unit will work 100% this way as nothing is blocking the magnetic hall sensor itself.

I tried to explain this in easy way, but it's much more complex.

The CPS is really the brain & heart of the truck put together.


I tried over 15 CPS units in my van, and I found one old stock unit
that had the best magnetic strength and it made the van run great.
I get 18-20 on a 80HP tune at 67 mph 1886 rpm or about.
 
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#2 ·
Whew! That's quite a lot of info. The short of it, yes, I'm running an old style Black CPS. I had a spare when they did the recall on my truck and stuck in the gray CPS. I didn't like that my truck failed the cylinder contribution test in AE with thd gray, so I went back to the black one. Seems to idle better and mileage is slightly better with the black CPS.
 
#3 ·
Is there any way of putting sealing or candle wax on the end of the sensor and running it then checking the distance? I do believe you talked about matching the "old" sensor but maybe that's too far away? Do you feel it could be an issue if it were too close - other than for obvious "the end is ground off" signs?
 
#4 ·
Van350sd - what's the part number for the Borg unit? I've never tried one of those.
 
#5 · (Edited)
CSS1603 is the Borg Warner unit,

When I cut the ends off the CPS units I use GE Silicone
to fill the voids and let it cure overnight.

Then it's good to go.

I have a bunch of pics with all these units cut open, I will UL to
an imageshack photo site and post the folder for the pics.

The hall sensors for the new Ford/IH Gray or Dark Blue CPS units have
an American Co. made sensor but they are made in Asia. These are the cheaper, weaker, off-set units. They tried to save a buck.

The Borg Warner units have the same Co. hall sensors but they are the better
quality/model (Top of the line) in it's class, cost more per unit. So the BWD units
did not go the low-bid route.

When I get the pics UL I will post the links.



This side angle shows how thick the plastic is in front of the hall sensor, after I cut
off the plastic I filled silicone around it and tried the unit. It worked so much better,
but the unit still sucks because it's off-set and the timing was off.

Plus you can see the sensor itself is about 1/8" away from the inside plastic cover,
so in total the sensor is about 1/4" away from the flush edge of the front of the unit.
It's about 1/4" back from where it should be. A major design flaw.





The Gray units are the same off-set units as the Blue Units, I will find those pics,




The Offset units are the ones that cause high EGT's and poor fuel mileage.

So far for the new production the Borg Warner is my choice.

I still have some of the old CPS for my van and this is what I'm using now, they are my favorite. But if you cannot find them anymore the BW/BWD is the way to go.

What the wires do:


This printable paper shows how the CAMP/CPS/CMP starts and you can follow the electrical to troubleshoot problems, this is a good download
and handy paper to keep in your truck. High Res. When you click on the pic, click the pic again to enlarge.;

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data/500/7_3L_wiring_diagram_handy.jpg
 
#6 ·
I don't know that I follow all of your reasoning. Plastic should not affect magnetic properties. I will admit I can see how a stronger magnet in the older sensors make them more effective, but putting a plastic casing should not make the magnetism any weaker or stronger.
 
#7 ·
If I did not take the time to do all this testing I would ask questions like this also.

But the bottom line is the 1/8" plastic is blocking the hall sensor from counting the teeth.

If you look at the old, original black CPS the hall sensor goes all the way
to the front/flush with the end of the cps with no plastic or obstructions in it's way.

The Hole in the 7.3L CPS is designed for the CPS unit to send the signal
to the wheel centered, not off-set 1/8" or better. It throws the timing way off.

The BW unit has the hall sensor centered and it works great for an aftermarket unit.
 
#10 ·
Any more info on shimming the CPS? I picked up a BW CPS today and it runs better than my grey.
 
#14 ·
In what way does it run better? I am considering trying one, I'm wondering if it will help mpg's due to the 1/8 inch timing difference.
 
#11 ·
where are the Borg Warner sensors sold?
 
#13 ·
I got mine at Oreilly Auto Parts. They had it in stock.

What color is the borg warner cps unit that was mentioned earlier? I am seeing black and grey on the websites.
They are grey, but sometimes pictured black.
 
#15 ·
so what your getting at is that the borg warner and the original black ones are the tops for cam sensors right??? well i bought a cam sensor thats an original black one for an obs truck on ebay anybody got any info on that one will it work better than the pos charcoal gray one
 
#17 ·
I just realized that at Advance Auto parts/O'reily's, they have the BWD CSS1603 but its grey. The one that BWD makes that is black is CSS626.
The BWD CSS1603 is for 97-03 7.3's
and
the BWD CSS626 is for 94-96 7.3's.

Now I assume the correct one is the CSS626? considering its black, has a little circle in the center of the end of it that sticks out with two dimples which is just like my original black cps sensor (1825899)

The grey one (CSS1603) is flat with three dimples on the end.


So its the CSS626 correct?
 
#19 ·
I know that but its not black, its grey? The one in van_350sd pictures seemed black. And I know a few others have been suggesting using 94-96 cps's which are working better than the actual ones for our trucks (97+)

So thats why I ask if the CSS626 is the correct one. van_350sd also has two BWD cps boxes in a picture, I wonder if he got the two BWD's mixed up if they are different?
 
#20 ·
I bought my CSS1603 from o reillys over the weekend and its black.
 
#22 ·
Ok, well just checked at a few other Advance Auto parts stores, all grey cps in boxes. Check an O'reily's same thing, Pepboy's same thing. I wanted to make sure whats going on so call BWD tech and they said they just changed the color, same exact one as the older BWD css1603's were black, now grey.

Just wanted to get to the bottom of this considering its like the Ford/IHC grey cps nightmare was probing its head around again.

So for anyone concerned about when they open there box, CSS1603 in grey is correct.
 
#24 ·
After looking at the cutaways I'm going to have to crawl under my truck and look at the orientation of the CPS relative to the centerline of the Crank. Those teeth are not that large so that offset could (if you clocked the CPS in 90° increments) advance or retard timing OR place the sensor to the inside or outside of the arc of the teeth as they pass by. Has anyone tried rotating / "clocking" their CPS to see if there is an effect?
 
#25 ·
I am pretty sure that you cannot clock the CPS any differently; maybe 180*. The CPS only slides in the bracket one way.


I am planning to pick up one of the BW CPS's this week. Do we have to cut the tip off? also does the BW need shims? If so where do you get the shims from?
My new IH that I picked up from Dfuser seems to make the truck run/idle smoother but nothing so far on mileage(which is my biggest concern). Does not feel like I gained any performance either. I figured I could try the BW unit to see how it fairs against the IH.
 
#26 ·
Just tried the BWD on Saturday. In my case, the old girl didn't like it. She would idle fine but going down the express way she acted liked there was something awful in her mouth and she wanted to spit it out. I had to pull over and swap it out. Good thing I had the old one and the 10 mm still on the floor. Could I have gotten a bad one? Because the swap in and out was zip zip...nothing unusual.

Peace
Robert
 
#27 ·
Just tried the BWD on Saturday. In my case, the old girl didn't like it. She would idle fine but going down the express way she acted liked there was something awful in her mouth and she wanted to spit it out. I had to pull over and swap it out. Good thing I had the old one and the 10 mm still on the floor. Could I have gotten a bad one? Because the swap in and out was zip zip...nothing unusual.

Peace
Robert
Anything is possible and it could be possible for different trucks to act differently with ea CPS. I would think if you got a bad one that it would not work or possibly leave you stranded, but I'm no expert. Maybe you can go back where you got it and tell them it made your truck run like crap and ask to try a different one. Everything is mass produced these days, so there is a possibility that you got a lemon.

I will report back next weekend with my findings after I try one of the BW's
 
#30 ·
OK...maybe I'm carrying this too far but if the pickup is offset by 1/8" and that offset is tangent to the window arc that adds up to about a 2.4° of advance or retard assuming a swag of 6 inches for the centerline diameter of the window. Don't know if or how that affects a diesel but in a gas engine that could definitly make a difference in performance..
 
#31 ·
There is no doubt the recall gray is the worst. Rough idle and failed cct's are common.

The original black IH1825899c93 is by far the best.

I have heard good things about the BW as well.

Maybe one day someone will make the ultimate cps for our trucks.

Stay safe.
 
#32 ·
I decided to pick up a BWD today. Wish I would have seen this thread before I bought my IH cps. I paid $40 for the IH and paid $27 incl tax for the BWD.
The IH did smooth out my idle and seemed to run fine. I do not think it increased my fuel mileage at all. If it did, it was very little.
I just did 1 quick test run with the BWD after installation. Truck still seems to run the same. Will have to see If I get any mileage increase.

Question though: are we supposed to cut the tops off and put a thin coat of silicon on them, shims, or just install them? I would think shims would not be a good idea as there is already a 1/8" gap.
 
#33 ·
SOOOOOOOoooooo is the OP going to cut open another Borg Warner CSS1603 Camshaft Sensor to see if the new grey ones are the same as the old black ones. Industry is funny with following anothers lead. If Ford, IH, and everyother manufacture changed I find it hard to believe BWD is holding their ground. Regardless I will need to buy 2 more so ORielies here I come. At $26 it is a good buy anyways.
 
#34 ·
I tried the BW CPS but I can't get it to work right with the wipers on intermittent. It will kill the engine after a couple of minutes. I was reading another post that said the wiper motor generates electrical noise which messes with the CPS signal. Has anyone tried installing a noise filter using capacitors across the wiper motor wires. It works for CB radios.

I really like the sensor, the engine was much smoother and ran great. I have used the gray and dark blue sensors and the dark blue isn't bad, but the mileage isn't great.

Maybe we as a group we can figure out a fix that will allow the use of after market sensors.
 
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#54 ·
I tried the BW CPS but I can't get it to work right with the wipers on intermittent. It will kill the engine after a couple of minutes. I was reading another post that said the wiper motor generates electrical noise which messes with the CPS signal. Has anyone tried installing a noise filter using capacitors across the wiper motor wires. It works for CB radios.
...
Try wrapping the connector in aluminum foil. I don't have this sensor but investigating which one to purchase.
 
#35 ·
My new bw cps stalls now to. Only on delay wipers ? Hi or low wipers all is fine. Truck starts and runs better with it. How to stop the delay wiper stalling ? Any ideas.
 
#36 ·
I have the exact same problem. I'm going to try the Delphi one and see if it works better. I have read that some people have been having some success with it. Maybe someone will chime in about how well the Delphi one works.
 
#37 ·
I haven't had the need for wipers yet. I will have to try and see If I get the same issues on BWD CPS or not. I will report back once I have tested intermittant wipers.
 
#38 ·
I live in Washington. It's more like "wow it isn't raining, I guess I can turn my wipers off now". So having a sensor that doesn't shut the truck off in the rain it kinda important.
 
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