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CPS Testing Information

121K views 126 replies 38 participants last post by  ArcticDriver 
#1 ·
What type of CPS Cam Position Sensor do you have?

The old, original Black units are the best, the International
1825899C93 that were manufactured around 2000 to 2003.

The new Ford/IH Gray or blue units suck, they have about 1/8"
of plastic covering the hall sensor and they are not centered,
they are off-center almost 1/8" throwing the timing way off
giving high EGT's and poor fuel economy.

Here is a new IH Blue CPS, I cut the end plastic off that was 1/8" thick
and put silicone around the sensor. Notice how the sensor is off set?


Here is a photo of a Borg Warner CPS that has a much better hall sensor,
USA made and it's centered. I cut them all open to inspect what type each
sensor uses and if they were centered or off-set.




Here is the old stock "the best" CPS from 2000 NOS stock, notice the sensor is centered and there is no plastic covering the sensor.




Here is a pic of a CPS 'Air Gap' instrument, it measures the gap.
Some engines need to be shimmed the 466 for instance, and even the
7.3L works better with 1 or 2 shims sometimes. Depends on the type of
CPS you are using. If you don't have this 300.00+ instrument you can simply
add a single shim to your CPS and see how it runs. You may or may not notice a difference without software ie: AutoEnginuity. My Van seems to be dialed-in using one shim with an old, original Black CPS.



Here is a pic of how many CPS I tested and cut open.



The CPS is specified at about 18#s ft. torque to install it.

This is the one most sensitive, important parts of the vehicle
that will either make it run like a vette or a ****box.


When you look at this pic notice the cam sensor counts the teeth
as the wheel spins, it counts the smallest tooth between 5-6 (It's so small you cannot write on it) and the largest
tooth at 11 and this thing is spinning like crazy. This is responsible for the timing, fuel delivery, amount of fuel etc. So the new CPS that have the 1/8" of plastic covering the hall sensor are already at a disadvantage. The CPS has a magnetic hall sensor and it counts the teeth. It needs to count them perfectly.

On the old, original Black CPS the magnetic hall sensor has such a strong magnet you can pick up small metal objects with it, like a small key, or large nail clippers etc. I noticed the stronger the magnetic signal, the better the CPS can count the teeth correctly thus giving you optimum performance.

the new Blue or gray CPS from Ford/IH have such a weak magnetic strength due to the 1/8" plastic covering the sensor and the fact the sensor is off-set from center, it's wasting so much fuel and causing high EGT's.




To sum it up,

If you have one of the new CPS units in your truck, try to either get a new Borg Warner black unit or an old International 1825899C93.

When you call IH to get this part#, it will refer you to the new CPS
that is the poor design. You will need to get an old stock unit.

And the Borg Warner BWD unit only has about 1/32" of thin plastic
covering the end cap on the hall sensor and it's only blocking the signal a little bit. But you can still cut the end off with a dremmil tool like I did to expose the hall sensor and the unit will work 100% this way as nothing is blocking the magnetic hall sensor itself.

I tried to explain this in easy way, but it's much more complex.

The CPS is really the brain & heart of the truck put together.


I tried over 15 CPS units in my van, and I found one old stock unit
that had the best magnetic strength and it made the van run great.
I get 18-20 on a 80HP tune at 67 mph 1886 rpm or about.
 
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#39 ·
So I tried the Delphi CPS, it works good. So far there isn't any problems with the wiper interference problem. I drove around a bit today and the engine runs noticeably smoother. It looks exactly like the old black one. We'll see if it lasts in the long run, and hopefully the mileage will get a little better.

Observations I notice between the dark blue and gray sensors compared to the Delphi black sensor.

Much stronger magnet.

Dark blue and gray an only hold a 8mm 1/4" socket, Delphi can hold a 19mm 3/8" socket.

Magnet centered in sensor on the Delphi sensor. You can check this by hanging a small drill bit above the sensor with some fishing line. The drill bit will center on the center of the magnet. Both ford unit are offset from the center, Delphi is centered.

Perdels

All under 1.0 with the Delphi. Ford units both fail 3 and 8.

It would be nice if someone else will chime in if they are running the same sensor and what their results are.
 
#40 ·
So I tried the Delphi CPS, it works good. So far there isn't any problems with the wiper interference problem. I drove around a bit today and the engine runs noticeably smoother. It looks exactly like the old black one. We'll see if it lasts in the long run, and hopefully the mileage will get a little better.

Observations I notice between the dark blue and gray sensors compared to the Delphi black sensor.

Much stronger magnet.

Dark blue and gray an only hold a 8mm 1/4" socket, Delphi can hold a 19mm 3/8" socket.

Magnet centered in sensor on the Delphi sensor. You can check this by hanging a small drill bit above the sensor with some fishing line. The drill bit will center on the center of the magnet. Both ford unit are offset from the center, Delphi is centered.

Perdels

All under 1.0 with the Delphi. Ford units both fail 3 and 8.

It would be nice if someone else will chime in if they are running the same sensor and what their results are.
I will have to check this on my BWD unless you have already?
Where did you get the Delphi and what CPS were you running prior? Thanks
 
#41 ·
OK - I scanned the thread and must have missed it. What is the part number for the Delphi and where can you get it? I'm running the black and am quite happy with it, but would like to have a good fallback.
 
#42 · (Edited)
K, Found it so far at advance auto for $35 PN is:
HTS101

Amazon, rockauto...

My local advance auto says to call for availability. I will call them tomorrow to see if they have any stock, otherwise I will pick one up from amazon
 
#44 ·
K, Found it so far at advance auto for $35 PN is:
HTS101
Must be some mistake. Advanced proudly states this is a Delphi Camber Position Sensor :icon_rolleyes:

I don't want to monitor my alignment. :no:
 
#45 ·
Anyone try the Delphi with intermittent wiper on ?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC
Bennet said he hasn't had any problems yet and he lives in Washington state or Oregon where its always raining. We will have to wait for an update, but should be safe

Must be some mistake. Advanced proudly states this is a Delphi Camber Position Sensor :icon_rolleyes:

I don't want to monitor my alignment. :no:
We might need to monitor the camber:jester: let us know when something is worn in the front end. I am going to see if they have one today. Good thing they have a picture to show what it really is:yesnod:
 
#46 ·
It doesn't rain much in the Northwest. We just use our wipers a bunch.
 
#47 ·
My new bosch CPS is also killing my engine w/ the intermittent wipers on. Glad I checked back in on this thread. Delphi on order.... Too bad. I really liked how the engine was smoother. No mileage improvement though.
 
#48 ·
I replaced the factory original grey sensor about eight years ago as a preventive measure with a Ford black sensor. I reckon that I put about 100k miles on that sensor.
I recently replaced that Ford black CPS due to intermittent engine cut-outs. It seemed to happen after engine reached full operating temp and at freeway speeds.
I purchased a BWD sensor from Advance and noticed smoother running, but also noticed that it would cut out when running the wipers in intermittent. I guess I’ll try the Delphi sensor next.
I’m not sure about this new part's application, but it seems to me that the BWD part is not compatible with the Ford 7.3. It’ll be interesting to see how Advance handles this return.
 
#49 ·
I actually got to use my intermittant wipers today. Only 7 miles each way to/from work. Did not have any issues with my BWD. Maybe not enough runtime for it to happen. I still want to try the delphi, just haven't ordered.
 
#50 ·
The Delphi sensor is still working great for me. No stalling, cut outs, etc. My truck isn't a daily driver, so I haven't checked the mileage. Definitely runs smoother. I'm pretty happy with it. Maybe someone else can check perdels and mileage. It would be nice to compare with mine.
 
#51 ·
Bennet,
What is the delphi part # you are using and where did you get it?
A bunch of us a curious......:bowdown:
 
#52 ·
I have previously posted and 99.99% sure its what he is using

Delphi CPS: HTS101 can be found at amazon or advance auto. Amazon is best bet:thumbsup:
 
#53 ·
That's the number I'm using. Bought it on amazon because I'm lazy and they will ship to my door in two days. Still working great.


QUOTE=INFRNL;2193584]I have previously posted and 99.99% sure its what he is using

Delphi CPS: HTS101 can be found at amazon or advance auto. Amazon is best bet:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]
 
#55 ·
I still have not had any stalling with intermittent wipers using BWD (knock on wood), but I still want to pick up the delphi just to test it. Think I will order one. My advance auto's have to order the delphi in; they only stock BWD from what I was told.
 
#56 ·
Finally got my delphi on the way. will test it out in the next few weeks. Not a great time to be testing for fuel mileage as we are getting ready for summer fuel im my memory serves right.
 
#57 ·
UPDATE:
I did not cut the plastic off like the op, but I checked to see where the magnet is on all my CPS's. I have 2 ford, IH, BWD, and Delphi.
fords and new version IH are a touch off center but not much. BWD is almost centered and Delphi is just about perfectly centered. There is a difference in magnet strength but I do not recall whats what.
Delphi and BWD have the big end like the original black. Performance wise; I do not see any difference between IH, BWD, or Delphi. No intermittant issues with BWD as some have. Delphi might be getting slightly worse mileage out of the IH, BWD and Delphi.
I will have to monitor more. BWD will typically drop .01 when I start the day but gaings it back by the end of the day and I only travel 14-15 miles a day. Today a went running around and dropped .02. This is on the lie-o-meter, but is a good way to tell whats going on. I still hand calculate actual mileage. I will have to try to monitor more to see if I can feel any performance differences. Kind of nervous about mileage though.
Since I only go through 1 tank of fuel a month, and I am going on a long rd trip; I will probably run 1 tank for ea cps (IH,BWD,Delphi) to see if there is a mileage difference.

Just wanted to share my thoughts, but you should be good with any of the 3 non-ford cps's I mentioned
 
#58 · (Edited)
Here's another tidbit of info on the Grey recall Ford CPS versus the original IH black CPS.

When I replaced my engine, it had a grey CPS in it. Still has the stock injectors installed, but running my DP 80e tune. I've been monitoring fuel mileage since I had the truck, and since Dec when I had the engine put in, noticed mpg wasn't all that good. So after things warmed up a bit and I was pretty sure we were off winter fuel, I swapped in the original black CPS that came with the truck.

The two fill-ups prior to the swap were both 14.8 mpg, with driving conditions my normal 15 mi (one-way) commute to work hauling sailboat fuel. I swapped in the old CPS not quite 50 miles into the third fill-up, which included one ~ 2 hour highway run hauling an Explorer engine for another TDS member. That fill-up resulted in mileage of 16.5 mpg, and the 4th, again just normal driving pattern was 16.3 mpg. I'd say that's significant. No other changes were made.

If you can find an original CPS, I'd recommend it. The Delphi or BWD unit mentioned in this thread would be another good move. They may be more reliable than the old IH black CPS, which did have the problem of dying, although I've never had an issue with mine (I do carry a spare).

Here's the raw data in case you're interested.

Code:
[LEFT]Fill Date  Mileage    Gal    MPG   Notes[/LEFT]
4/11/2012  145403
[LEFT]4/25/2012  145806   27.267  14.8
5/10/2012  146174   24.784  14.8   5/12/12 146219 Changed to original black CPS
5/25/2012  146659   29.47   16.5
6/7/2012   147031   22.882  16.3[/LEFT]
 
#59 ·
Thanks for the update. I would love to find an original. one day I might be able to catch a deal from someone selling a spare.

I prefer the BWD over the delphi, just seems peppier but it could be my imagination. The oring on the delphi is junk as well.

on my rd trip I have been on for the last week; I have gotten just over 17mpg highway using BWD and Delphi. This is the best I have ever seen. I had 14 city before I left. Will continue to monitor.

I have one last 600mi trip home from Bellevue, NE. I am going to see how my IH cps does. I also had 1 bad tank of fuel from Memphis; 15mpg. This was the only tank that had Clear fuel, all other tanks were the typical yellowish/green. I will steer clear of clear fuel from now on.
 
#60 ·
Update:

Just finished a week of towing my 9000 lbs 5th wheel all over Washington and Oregon. Covered 1500 miles. Average fuel MPG towing 60-70 MPH was 12.5 MPG. The truck ran great. No missing or crappy running. The Delphi cps in my opinion is much better than the grey Ford cps.

There's one long grade coming out of Mitchell, Oregon towards John Day, OR that is 6% for about 5 miles. Last year with the grey sensor I could barely hold 50 MPH in second gear. This time I pulled it at 55-60 in 3rd without a problem. Not a real scientific test, but more old a seat of the pants test. I'm going to keep it since its working good in my opinion.
 
#61 ·
I do not recall, did you ever try the BWD cps? If so, curious what you think in comparison between BWD and Delphi?

I did not do long enough tests, but I like the BWD better.
 
#62 ·
I did try the BWD sensor but it caused problems in the rain. The truck would randomly cut out. Glad to hear it works for you. I really with someone would check the perdels between them. The BWD and Delphi both made the truck run smoother, minus the problem with the BWD sensor.
 
#63 ·
I think I recall you mentioning that now. I read somewhere that someone found a fix for the intermittent wiper issue. You have to add coils somewhere. If I can find it again, I will post it here.
 
#64 ·
I just ordered a HTS 101 Delphi CPS and this is what came out of the box. Grey CPS PN 1876735C91. Isnt this just the same international and ford **** in a different box? Auto part


What the hell?


Will the Delphi HTS 100 work?
 
#68 ·
I just ordered a HTS 101 Delphi CPS and this is what came out of the box. Grey CPS PN 1876735C91. Isnt this just the same international and ford **** in a different box? View attachment 42577

What the hell?


Will the Delphi HTS 100 work?
I got the same POS from Rock Auto. Returning it immediately. looks like we are all stuck with garbage. Thanks Ford. :thdown:
 
#65 ·
to fix the wiper issue you need to shield the ground for the wiper motor.
adding a choke/ferrite beads to the ground will prevent the issue.
but i dont know where the ground is lol

ive ran the delphi and borg warner cps and the bg was better.
but the delphi i still better than the ford cps. better idle/starting/smother power.

ive ran three different ford cps and they all sucked. the delphi cps is better, and yes it does look the same.
 
#66 · (Edited)
I bought the bwd css626 (94-97 part) today to replace the IH. INSTANTLY SMOOTHER IDLE. No more off idle stumble, noticably smoother throttle response over the entire range. I haven't heard of this one having the wiper issue. I'll check tomorrow. $24.99 at Oreilly. We'll see if I get any fuel mileage increase. I lost 3 mpg from the recall and never got it back with the IH. In fact I've run the grey and the IH in the past week, no noticeable difference in idle or mileage, same off idle stumble.

Update~I have no issue with the intermittent wipers causing any kind of shutdown.
 
#67 ·
Update

I bought a css626 from O'reilly on Friday (March 20, and it got returned tonight, March 23). Truck idles instantly smoother, with a smooth throttle response. However, yesterday, it was randomly misfiring. Tach would drop a few hundred ROM, the would sputter and it nearly dies on the road. I put my IH Blue/gray unit back in. delphi is on order. They tried to not allow me to return it. I told them if I had to for 6 months I wouldn't try, but two days to failure is not happening. Then the "smart" one tried to tell me there was no warranty...so I showed him the lifetime warranty on the receipt.:SM130:
 
#70 ·
Thanks!!


I assume the ferrite chokes are to stop the wiper issue? I can go get one tomorrow. Got a good source for the chokes?

Edit- They have them at Radio Shack if you still have one open near you.
 
#72 ·
I had a good, pre-recall CPS that Ford changed into the recall CPS that cost me about 4 mpg. Tried the BWD, but that one was worse so I took it back. I put in a dark grey one from RiffRaff and it was better but slowly got worse as well. Yesterday I put in the Delphi and it's ALMOST as good as the pre-recall one. Best so far. Mileage improved 3mpg driving the same loop as earlier in the day, with numbers on my lie-o-meter I have not seen in a long time, and the exhaust note is smoother and less cackle-y. I did note that the magnet seemed weaker of the three, but as long as it performs well I don't care.

When I took the dark grey out the o-ring was gone on one side, so it may have allowed the CPS to move a little causing the slow deterioration in performance.
 
#74 ·
Nick, thanks for all the info. I got the Echlin CPS yesterday. I put two chokes on the wiper harness and the intermittent wipers no longer kill the truck. Smooth idle, smooth acceleration. ....until today. Cut out on me several times while driving. It drops about 300 RPM then kicks back on, did it several consecutive times. truck was at full temp. I put the IH CPS back in because it doesn't cut out on me. It's not raining here so I never touched the wipers. Will chokes on other locations cure this problem? I really like the smoother idle, but I'm not sure if my truck is going to let me get away with a better CPS. I did read the other thread, but I haven't seen any mention of random misfires.
 
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