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-   -   Navistar / IH Water Pump Upgrade (https://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f48/navistar-ih-water-pump-upgrade-300269/)

calico5string 04-04-2012 12:11 AM

Navistar / IH Water Pump Upgrade
 
Hello All,

I recently installed a new factory Navistar/IH water pump into my 2000 F350 7.3L, in place of the stock Ford aluminum pump.

I had recently changed out a Navistar pump on T444e (in an older 4300-Series dump truck) at my work. I got a good look at it, and determined that it would be a perfect fit into my Ford truck.

My stock pump had recently began a slow, weeping leak at the top of the pump, where it seals against the block, when the engine was cold. This pump was only a few years old, and was a replacement from a popular automtive parts retailer.

The main reasons for my choosing the Navistar pump over the stock Ford pump were:

1. The Navistar pump is all cast iron. Obviously, it's a bit heavier than the Ford pump, but it is very well built, and (IMO) designed to last MUCH longer than the POS aluminum pump.

2. It has an integral COOLANT FILTER! I had been wanting to install a filter on the cooling system for some time, and this was the perfect setup! No hoses, no brackets, no hanging add-on filters that just don't seem to fit right anywhere. The filter mount is built-in to the pump, is easily accesible on the truck, and is properly designed to work with the pump and engine.

I didn't get into the "HOW TO's" of removing the stock pump in this thread. You should be able to get through that part. I have only documented the details and differences of the Navistar Pump install.

If you click the "thumbnail" images below, it will open a larger, more detailed image.

Okay, so on to the install:

The part number for the Navistar pump is: 1831676C92.

The obvious main physical difference from the Ford pump is the water inlet: it is on the right side (passenger side) of the pump. The stock Ford pump inlet is on the left. However, the radiator outlet is also on the right, and with just a small modification of the hose: NO PROBLEM.

Note that the Navistar pump's built-in coolant filter occupies the space where the inlet-horn formerly was (on the stock Ford pump). Thus, it is easily accessable from the below once the pump is installed...

Here are the two pumps for comparison:
(Note: The Navistar pump comes as bare cast iron. I sprayed it with silver-aluminum Krylon for a little extra protection...and, it looks much better!)

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...tar_W-Pump.jpg



THERMOSTAT
The thermostat used in the Navistar pump is the original "Short stem" design (shown on the left, in the Pic below).

VERY IMPORTANT: DO NOT USE THE "LONG STEM" THERMOSTAT that is used in the later-model Ford pump. It will COMPLETELY block the bypass port in the Navistar pump, causing there to be NO coolant circulation at all. You MUST use the SHORT STEM THERMOSTSAT.

The short stem thermo' is readily available. I purchased the one shown here from O'Reily's (about $12). The O'Reily's part number is: 4252. I specified a thermo' for a 1995 Ford Pickup with the 7.3L diesel engine.

As a side benefit: It's also a 203 'stat. The 203 is what was originally supplied in the Navistar (T444e) engines, and is also what Ford used in the earlier Powerstroke versions. I believe it was changed to 192 as a way to conform to the ever-tightening emissions regulations.

Although there is some (much) debate as to whether it is better to use 203 or a 192, that is a discussion for another thread.

YOU CAN ALSO GET A 192* SHORT STEM 'STAT IF YOU WANT IT! Just specify the cooler temp when you purchase the thermostat. (sorry, I don't have that p/n.)

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...hermostats.jpg

Yes, the stock thermostat outlet fits perfectly on the Navistar pump. Or, you can install the "trick" billet aluminum one. Either works equally well. (However, the stock one is a lot easier on the wallet).

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data..._Radiator_.jpg




MOUNTING BOLTS
The water pump uses a total of 9 mounting bolts to secure it it the front of the engine. 4 of the 9 also pass through and secure the engine front-cover (timing/cam gear cover) to the engine block. This cover is what forms the back side of the water pump (the pump volute) as well as the base for the LPO & HPO pumps, and part of the oil cooler mount.

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...ump_Volute.jpg

The bolts are all metric size, M8 x 1.25. There are three different lengths used for the stock pump, as shown in the Pic below (110mm, 80mm, and 30mm). Since the Navistar pump has a slightly different shape (with the inlet being on the other side), a couple of the stock Ford bolts must be substituted.

If you use the original factory bolts that came out, you will need to purchase 3 additional bolts: Two bolts @ 60mm long, and one bolt @ 110mm long. You will then have the three original bolts left over after your install (two 30 mm and one 80 mm).

The bolts were readily available at a local NAPA store. Unfortunately, Autozone, O'Reily's, etc., were not able to supply them (at least they were not an "in-stock" item).

In the case of my pump install, I decided to replace ALL of the bolts with new ones: Four @ 110mm long, Two @ 60mm long, and Three @ 30mm long (all M8x1.25), along with flat washers for under the heads.

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data..._Locations.jpg
(Note: The picture says "35mm bolts". That should have been "30mm bolts")



PUMP BODY MODIFICATION
Next: there is a bolt-boss cast into the the front of the Navistar pump (I believe this was for an additional pulley on the T444e engine). This boss will need to be cut or ground down about 3/8".

I used a 4-1/2" grinder with a "cut-off" wheel in it, and just shaved off about 3/8". You could also simply grind or sand it down with a grinding or sanding wheel. Or, if you have access to a milling machine (and wanted to be really fancy!) you could mill it off.

In any case, it needs to be cut down a bit (3/8" minimum, to all the way flush, maximum), otherwise the belt will interfere with it once the pump's installed. It could also be cut-off after the pump is installed in the truck (on the engine)...but it's much easier to do on the bench!

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data..._Bolt_Boss.jpg

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data..._Clearance.jpg




HEATER HOSE ROUTING
There are several "extra" pipe ports in the Navistar pump. However, the new pump came complete with a bag of pipe plugs for use in plugging the unused ports. The temperature sender installs in a port near the thermostat, the same location as the Ford pump. Use the supplied plugs to block off all the other unused ports, as necessary.

The heater return hose, which originally connected at the front/top of the stock Ford pump (above the pulley) will now need to be relocated to the inlet horn on the new Navistar pump. I used the 1/2" pipe port on the side of the inlet, behind the larger 3/4" port, in the picture (sorry, didn't get a shot of it!). Aim the fitting upward in order to connect it to the heater hose. You may need to fine-tune the angle once the pump is in (or do a "test-fit" for hose position, prior to final install).

I used a 1/2" pipe 90-deg hose elbow fitting. Seal the pipe threads with your favorite dope, teflon tape, etc.

For the heater hose: You can cut the original factory "cold" (return) hose and re-route it (using some additional off-the-shelf 5/8" heater hose and a hose-to-hose coupler) along side the factory "hot" hose, down to the new location on the Navistar pump.

HOWEVER, on my install, I used a new factory Ford "HOT" hose in place of the original "cold" hose. I routed it right along with the original "hot" hose, down to the right side of the block. It was plenty long enough to reach the new connection spot on the Navistar pump inlet. And, it looks TOTALLY factory! The heater hose factory Ford part number is: F81Z-18472-MAA (it also had a "KH-260" on the label).

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...ne_Fitting.jpg

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...eturn_Port.jpg

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...ater_Hoses.jpg

Continued in the next post...

calico5string 04-04-2012 12:33 AM

Navistar Pump Install, Continued...


LOWER RADIATOR HOSE
Since the Navistar pump inlet is on the opposite side from the factory Ford pump, the lower radiator hose will need to be replaced.

I used a NAPA "Heavy Duty" OTR truck flex-hose (made by Gates). The NAPA part number is: FM-124. It is a 2-1/4" ID x 2" ID x 25" long. The 2-1/4" end fits the Navistar pump perfectly. However, the 2" end is a bit large for the oulet spigot on the radiator (which is 1-1/2" OD).

I solved this by cutting a short piece of factory lower hose (about 1-1/2 inches long) and slipping it inside the 2" ID flex hose, thus forming a bushing to down-size the larger hose. Once it's on the radiator and tightened down, it just becomes a really thick hose-end. Worked like a charm...

If desired, you could also use a little adhesive or sealant between the bushing and the hose, if it makes you feel better! I didn't, and it's working good!

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...Lower_Hose.jpg

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data..._Bushing_1.jpg

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...g_Finished.jpg

--> NOTE: I recently found a part number for a "molded" lower hose (unfortunately, after mine was in). It is a NAPA 8763. I believe the diameters of the hose will still require the bushing trick I used above, but I cannot be certain of this (as of this writing) as I have not seen one yet. So, if you don't like the flex-hose look, try this one...

The lower hose, installed, fit like a glove. Routed nicely around the starter cable...

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...nstalled_1.jpg

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data...nstalled_2.jpg



FINISHING THE INSTALL
Once the pump is in, and the hoses are hooked up, you can stuff the radiator, fan & shroud back in, and fill it up with coolant. Oh yea, don't forget to pick up a coolant filter and install it before filling the radiator! The filters are:NAPA # 4070 (non-SCA filter) orNAPA # 4071 (SCA/DCA pre-charged, 4-units). These are also available from Fleetguard, Donaldson, Wix, and others, however the part numbers may be different.

As for coolant: I used a product from Fleetguard called "ES Compleat" (http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/htm..._compleat.html). I have been using this coolant in my truck for 5 years. Yea, I know...it's a Cummins product. But it is a VERY good coolant, and it designed for extremely long life, particularly when used in combination with coolant filtration. It isn't cheap, but then, really good stuff seldom is! I also used distilled/demineralized water for the 50/50 dilution. (I use this exact coolant in a 1200 HP Cummins V-12 engine in a large crane that I maintain).

However, any good diesel engine-rated coolant will work. It should be Glycol-based, and preferably a low-silicate type. You can also add SCA'a (Suplemental Coolant Additives) to enhance the corrosion and cavitation protection. This is also sometimes refered to as a "DCA-IV" additive ("Dry Chemical Additive Four"). Even though it says "dry", it is avaiable in liquid form. Also, the coolant filters can come with the SCA additive in them (in dry form), and it will supplement the corrosion inhibitors as it's used. You can also use the non-SCA type filter if desired (it's just a filter...).

At such time that you need to change the filter (15000 to 20000 mi.), the little valve can be shut off to facilitate changing the filter without loosing coolant.

Although it seems like a lot to do for just a water pump, I think the little bit of extra effort involved, is greatly offset by the advantage of the heavy-duty Navistar pump, and the engine-life advantages of the coolant filter.

Good Luck!

Cheers,

rammertide07 04-04-2012 10:44 AM

Awesome write-up:thumbsup: Deffinately going onto my truck when I replace the pump.

Any foreseen problems with running ELC?

calico5string 04-04-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammertide07 (Post 2180764)
Awesome write-up:thumbsup: Deffinately going onto my truck when I replace the pump.

Any foreseen problems with running ELC?

Thanks!

And no, no problems with the EL coolant, to date. I've been running it for about 5 years now with no issues.

Fleetgaurd has some test strips which can be used to check the corrosion inhibitor levels in the coolant. I do it about one a year. So far it's in good shape...

txgp17 04-04-2012 05:30 PM

I you weren't so far away, I'd buy you a case of your favorite brew.

calico5string 04-04-2012 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txgp17 (Post 2180887)
I you weren't so far away, I'd buy you a case of your favorite brew.

HAHA, thanks!

My favorite is the COLD kind...:yesnod:

Actually, I'm having an ice-cold Miller Lite as I type!

Thanks again,

bigjas 10-03-2012 11:01 AM

Lessons Learned
 
Thanks for the great write up!

Other than needing to cut and/or grind down the boss and the casting ID, the installation of the International pump is no more difficult than installing another stock style water pump.

I am posting some of the lessons I learned while preparing to, and while completing this install in a parking lot about 80 miles from home (I had leave the truck where it was until I could return on Saturday to make the repairs, so I was able to buy a pump and modify it at home).

The biggest challenge I had was getting the seemingly "easy-to-get" parts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico5string (Post 2180656)
Navistar Pump Install, Continued...

LOWER RADIATOR HOSE
--> NOTE: I recently found a part number for a "molded" lower hose (unfortunately, after mine was in). It is a NAPA 8763. I believe the diameters of the hose will still require the bushing trick I used above, but I cannot be certain of this (as of this writing) as I have not seen one yet. So, if you don't like the flex-hose look, try this one...

I have read several posts indicating the NAPA 8763 hose works in the 1994-1997 trucks, but it was much to short for my 1999 (too bad, because the it is about half the price of the NAPA FM-124). I discovered this about 9:00 pm on a Saturday night. Sunday morning I was informed the Denver warehouse had one, but it was closed on Sundays.

If you want to try and find the flex hose elsewhere, it is a Gates #26517 (and it will probably have a green stripe instead of a yellow one).

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico5string (Post 2180656)
Navistar Pump Install, Continued...

MOUNTING BOLTS
If you use the original factory bolts that came out, you will need to purchase 3 additional bolts: Two bolts @ 60mm long, and one bolt @ 110mm long. You will then have the three original bolts left over after your install (two 30 mm and one 80 mm).

The bolts were readily available at a local NAPA store. Unfortunately, Autozone, O'Reily's, etc., were not able to supply them (at least they were not an "in-stock" item).

In the case of my pump install, I decided to replace ALL of the bolts with new ones: Four @ 110mm long, Two @ 60mm long, and Three @ 30mm long (all M8x1.25), along with flat washers for under the heads.

NAPA does carry the 110 mm bolts, but none of the Colorado Springs stores had them on hand. International had them on hand, ask for part #1818693C1 (>$4.00). The International bolt was identical to the stock bolt (flange bolt with reduced head), the NAPA bolt (>$2.00) is just a regular style bolt.

If you want to replace all of the bolts with the OEM stlye here are the International part #'s (I have not physically verified these #'s)
30 mm bolts - 1817958C1
60 mm bolts - 1817811C1
None of the local hardware stores carry an 8x1.25 bolt longer than 100 mm.
Quote:

Originally Posted by calico5string (Post 2180656)
Navistar Pump Install, Continued...

HEATER HOSE ROUTING
I used a 1/2" pipe 90-deg hose elbow fitting. Seal the pipe threads with your favorite dope, teflon tape, etc.

For the heater hose: You can cut the original factory "cold" (return) hose and re-route it (using some additional off-the-shelf 5/8" heater hose and a hose-to-hose coupler) along side the factory "hot" hose, down to the new location on the Navistar pump.

HOWEVER, on my install, I used a new factory Ford "HOT" hose in place of the original "cold" hose. I routed it right along with the original "hot" hose, down to the right side of the block. It was plenty long enough to reach the new connection spot on the Navistar pump inlet. And, it looks TOTALLY factory! The heater hose factory Ford part number is: F81Z-18472-MAA (it also had a "KH-260" on the label).


I used a 45 degree fitting for the relocated heater return hose (from NAPA), and was able to use the existing return hose without cutting or kinking it. Detach the return hose from the valve cover brackets, and shift it back toward the firewall (so it is now above the supply hose near the firewall). Then pop it back in both valve cover brackets and route it between the AC and the supply hose to the fitting. I pulled the wire loom cover off the supply hose and placed it over the relocated return hose next to the AC.


Fan Clutches
Check your fan clutch! I am reasonably confident my pump failed due to a bad fan clutch. At 280,000 miles, I cannot complain to much about this, but the water pump only had about 60,000 miles on it. Around 2300 RPMs, there was an intermittent squealing noise I could never isolate. The squeal is now gone, and the turbo's sweet song is much more pronounced. My wife even commented the truck sounds different. She knows the sound of m truck, and can normally tell when I am close to the house. She was surprised when I walked in the door after first making the repairs, because the truck sounded so different. I guess the fan clutch died a slow enough death I never recognized how much different it sounded.

klhansen 10-03-2012 11:18 AM

Very nice and complete writeup. :thumbsup:

I'm nominating you for a gold star and a spot in the FAQ subforum. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...ons/icon12.gif

Your thread will be #2 in the 7.3L Engine Upgrades and Aftermarket FAQ subforum.

snakedoc 10-08-2012 08:31 AM

I know this is an older thread but i my have found a hose that will fit.
NAPA 8763 Lower Radiator Hose

Shamish 12-30-2012 06:47 PM

I just noticed this very informative thread. This is great. When/if my water pump fails, I am going to install one of the International pumps. The integral filter attachment is way cool!

wood4heat 01-25-2013 11:37 AM

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I just lost my water pump. I am considering the IH pump even though I already have the diesel site remote filter kit installed. My question is if it would it be worth the extra effort to switch to the IH pump when I already have a coolant fiter? I figure I could remove and sell my existing filter kit to offset some of the cost.

Thanks

txgp17 01-26-2013 09:32 AM

I would. The warm-up time with the Diesel-site kit is kinda long. Eliminating that allows your engine to reach operating time faster. I have to close my Diesel-site filter off during the winter.

Skip01 07-25-2013 07:17 PM

I found a picture of the T444 water pump with this hose , http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dac-71716

It looked like it was an aftermarket set up for the Fords.
Incase you cannot see the link the part is a Dayco # 71716
Maybe this is the lower hose ?

Paine 07-30-2013 08:25 AM

Nice setup here!! I also have the dieselsite filter kit and a newer (part store lifetime warranty) pump but I think I would spend the coin and put the dieselsite filter on a different vehicle to switch to this setup!

nacholibre 09-08-2013 09:02 AM

Need Lower Hose Help
 
We're in the process of doing the H2O upgrade on my 2002 2wd F350 Drw and I'm having trouble sourcing a lower hose that will fit without rubbing on the drag link. The one listed in the original post is too long.. Looks like something 20" to 21" would work. Any recommendations?? Thank you!


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