Navistar / IH Water Pump Upgrade - Page 3 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com
'99 & up Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine FAQ Frequently asked questions in the Upgrades and Aftermarket - 7.3L Engine forum.

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post #31 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-24-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Tech View Post
"Other than the eventual problems of cavitation and electrolysis associated with so many dissimilar metals, high mileage AND a spinning iron based wheel (creates an electrical charge) that further aggravates the problem along with a steel thermostat housing that corrodes against the aluminum housing...

In the kit adverposted above, doesn't Bob Riley include a billet aluminum thermostat housing with a steel thermostat and iron pump?

Is there an OEM engine made today for a light truck, gas or diesel, that doesn't have aluminum heads?

Has the Navistar T444e proven to be less susceptible to coolant cavitation than the PSD?
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post #32 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-28-2013, 08:20 PM
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I would imagine that the aluminum housing is anodized (with a black dye) to create a corrosion barrier and effectively bringing the dissimilar metals "closer" together on the anodic chart scale. If you look at dieselsite's picture of the housing, the product is black and not bare aluminum stock.

2002 7.3L F-250 4R100 Crew Cab with 270k miles, 5" MBRP turbo back axle dump exhaust, 6637 intake, ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (pyro, tranny, boost, fuel pressure, HPOP pressure), AIH delete, 05-07 headlights/grille, clearance/running lights, F650 lower dash, DP-Tuner, Harpoon mod, Driven Diesel hutch and RR kit, dieselsite 203* thermo/billet housing, leveling kit on 35/12.50R20s, PMF duals, redhead steering, GTP38R (WW2), T500 HPOP, 250cc/200% FFD injectors.
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post #33 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-28-2013, 08:23 PM
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Also, any idea as to how much this international conversion kit will cost from dieselsite? Currently it just says out of stock and no price is listed. I like the integral water pump filteration system rather than the tacky looking add-on filtration systems.

2002 7.3L F-250 4R100 Crew Cab with 270k miles, 5" MBRP turbo back axle dump exhaust, 6637 intake, ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (pyro, tranny, boost, fuel pressure, HPOP pressure), AIH delete, 05-07 headlights/grille, clearance/running lights, F650 lower dash, DP-Tuner, Harpoon mod, Driven Diesel hutch and RR kit, dieselsite 203* thermo/billet housing, leveling kit on 35/12.50R20s, PMF duals, redhead steering, GTP38R (WW2), T500 HPOP, 250cc/200% FFD injectors.
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post #34 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 11:09 AM
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I'm curious about the Dieselsite price too. This will be a no brained for me when the time comes!!

2003 Ford Excursion Eddie Bauer 4x4 7.3L Powerstroke
BASB w/ billet wheel, DIY Tymar, Full Force 180/80's, Adrenaline HPOP, RiffRaff FRX, Magnaflow TBE, DP-Tuner F6 custom tuned, Bilstein shocks, 05 Harley HL with HID conversion, Edge Insight CS, Dieselsite BRV, Factory 20" wheels, Dieselsite turbo boots, Johnny Lightning VB, 6.0 tranny cooler

2008 Subaru WRX STI
305whp/369wtq
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post #35 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 06:33 PM
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I believe they'll be $399 once they come back in stock but I will double check.
post #36 of 79 (permalink) Old 12-30-2013, 12:41 PM
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Anybody know about how much I should plan on spending on concentrated Rotella ELC? Best price I've found online is between $30-$40 per gallon...

2002 7.3L F-250 4R100 Crew Cab with 270k miles, 5" MBRP turbo back axle dump exhaust, 6637 intake, ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (pyro, tranny, boost, fuel pressure, HPOP pressure), AIH delete, 05-07 headlights/grille, clearance/running lights, F650 lower dash, DP-Tuner, Harpoon mod, Driven Diesel hutch and RR kit, dieselsite 203* thermo/billet housing, leveling kit on 35/12.50R20s, PMF duals, redhead steering, GTP38R (WW2), T500 HPOP, 250cc/200% FFD injectors.
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post #37 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2014, 05:46 PM
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my cps connector write is stretched pretty good too reach around the IH pump. anyone else have trouble getting it plugged in?

David Dunbar
2003 4x4 7.3 Excursion Ltd
4" exhaust, Tymar DIY, Vcode & modified Fcode, Helwig, Inappropriately valved Bilsteins, Isspro 3 gauge w/ windshield mount, DP tuner 80-60tow-40tow-HI, 6.0 31-row ATF cooler,
BTS Transmission, DI Up pipes
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post #38 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-04-2014, 07:15 PM
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A heads up for anyone doing this mod. Before you install the pump, remove the snap ring holding in the ball valve. Pull the valve out and throw away the oring. Replace it with a -205 Viton oring.

The factory oring likes to get brittle and crack causing a leak. And getting that snap ring out with the pump on the motor is not a fun task.

97 Green F-350 XLT 7.3L PSD 4x4 CC LB BTS E40D Manual Hubs 4.10 36000 miles when purchased 4/1/06. Mods - ISSPRO Performax gauges, Tymar intake, Tymar 3x4 DP to 4" ss exhaust, custom rear disc brakes, hydroboost conversion, electric fuel, CCV mod, 6.0 fan, tru-cool 4739, Swamps 175/30% injectors, stage I Stealth pump, LASB turbo, Spearco 6.0 cac, live tuned 442hp/860tq.

next up -> rsk w/ v codes

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post #39 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffee Tech View Post
"...so many dissimilar metals... aggravates the problem along with a steel thermostat housing that corrodes against the aluminum housing..."
So you are saying the benefit of a cast iron water pump is to reduce dissimilar metals?
Doesn't the water pump bolt to an aluminum front cover?



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Last edited by NYB; 01-05-2014 at 09:21 PM.
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post #40 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 10:09 PM
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NYT,

I did not replace my stock one with a Navistar to avoid dis-similar metals even though there were not sacrificial anodes on the original.

I did it exclusively to attempt to get a longer lasting pump. The filter is only a fringe benefit for me. I have no idea if it will last longer than the 1.5 years I got out of the aluminum one I had to buy from Car Quest that I had to slap on while on the road. I am a bit disappointed in the original only lasting from 2003 to 2011.

It is noted for the record that you think it's a dumb idea to use the Navistar pump.

David Dunbar
2003 4x4 7.3 Excursion Ltd
4" exhaust, Tymar DIY, Vcode & modified Fcode, Helwig, Inappropriately valved Bilsteins, Isspro 3 gauge w/ windshield mount, DP tuner 80-60tow-40tow-HI, 6.0 31-row ATF cooler,
BTS Transmission, DI Up pipes
Tomball Texas
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post #41 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 10:50 PM
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It is noted for the record that you think it's a dumb idea to use the Navistar pump.

That would definitely make for an erroneous record. I never once said it was a "dumb idea". In fact, I did a user name search just now, and I have never once used the word "dumb" in any post, ever, until this very post just now.

I have only asked questions about why people are going through the pains of installing an IH pump and dealing with a non premolded lower radiator hose, because I'm having trouble seeing any obvious benefits other than the filter boss, which you said is only a fringe benefit, not a factor, in your decision.

I'm just trying to learn why... because my searches about the topic have come up empty handed as far as any proven benefits. There is a big difference between asking questions versus condemnation.

And when someone does answer the questions, but the answers don't make sense to me (like how cast iron bolted to an aluminum cover with a common contact of water in between them is less dissimilar than aluminum bolted to aluminum), I have to ask again, until I understand. That is no more saying that it is a dumb idea than it is saying I am dumb because I don't understand.

I've read posts about the IH pump leaking, and posts about making sure to remove a check ball to take out the original O ring and replace it with a -205 Viton O-ring, and posts about how some lower hoses that were once thought to work ended up not working.

I haven't read (yet) that someone got 250,000 miles out of an IH water pump, whether on a T444e, a 94-97 (where the IH pump retrofits easier) or on a 99-03, which is what would really interest me to know.

One thing your experience with getting 8 years out of your stock Ford water pump (2003-2011) versus 1.5 years out of your CarQuest replacement, is that the Ford water pump is likely to last longer than a generic one from a chain auto store. You are not alone in that report... I've read that 100 times.

But how does one infer from that common experience that the IH pump will be more reliable than the Ford? Just because it is IH? We have enough history to know that IH is not infallible. Just because it is cast iron? We have enough history to know that when gas engines came with stock cast iron water pumps years ago, everybody "upgraded" them with aluminum ones. Ford Motorsports still advertises aluminum water pump upgrades for the older iron engines.

So the record should reflect my curiousity, not my condemnation. I'd like to know whether or not the IH pump is a more reliable water pump for the 99-03, and why. If the reasons put forward make logical sense, and the installations prove to be more reliable than the genuine Ford stock replacement, then I'll consider getting one too.

As of now, the only reasons I'm hearing are that people hope or assume it will be more reliable. That's ok, because none of us can predict failure... but what is it about the IH pump that gives people more hope than the Ford pump? Substituting an unproven solution because a previous solution failed seems similar to putting in an Auto Zone pump because the CarQuest pump failed.

Are there reports of high mileage achieved with an IH pump on a 99-03 without problems like leaks or impeller failure? Are there attributes about the IH pump that haven't been mentioned that I may have missed? That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

Last edited by NYB; 01-05-2014 at 10:56 PM.
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post #42 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 11:31 PM
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OK, reasonable answer. I thought you were just knocking the idea because it was not what Ford put on. I have seen that type of manufacturer knows better than anyone ideology before.

Most folks do not post about positive long term results of a modification. I'll let you know in ten years if the IH pump is still functional. I'll let you know a lot sooner if it fails.

I had to make a decision pretty quick as my truck was leaking badly and I parked the truck. Searching this forum and others I noted comments on many aftermarket pump longevity etc. I can get OEM parts from XL Parts here in Houston a lot cheaper than from the dealer but I rolled the dice on the hope that the cast iron one that IH put on engines going into severe duty commercial vehicles like dump trucks and school buses would last longer than a slightly less expensive (but big total difference per PSD's by Ford).
I apologize for tagging your repeated questioner posts as thinking the mod was dumb. You are just vetting the mod before doing it too. I had to make a quick decision and hope it was sound.

David Dunbar
2003 4x4 7.3 Excursion Ltd
4" exhaust, Tymar DIY, Vcode & modified Fcode, Helwig, Inappropriately valved Bilsteins, Isspro 3 gauge w/ windshield mount, DP tuner 80-60tow-40tow-HI, 6.0 31-row ATF cooler,
BTS Transmission, DI Up pipes
Tomball Texas
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post #43 of 79 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 12:58 AM
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OK, reasonable answer. I thought you were just knocking the idea because it was not what Ford put on. I have seen that type of manufacturer knows better than anyone ideology before.
And I have been guilty of that kind OEM ideology too, more often than not. In fact, one of my favorite quotes is "I want to take full advantage of all the engineering I already paid for with the price of the vehicle" So, it was not an entirely unreasonable attack on your part! I just had to step in and clarify, because in this case, no, I too, would like the absolute most reliable water pump money can buy, because I only want to do it once.

The long running (for years) "How many miles on your 7.3 and what have you done to it" thread, proves, if nothing else, that the waterpump ends up on everyone's repair list. My original water pump has lasted 13 years now, and is still going strong, but I don't want to be in the situation where I needed a water pump YESTERDAY, and have to take whatever is handy. I think you've been there done that!

So this preparation ahead of time is intended to avoid succumbing to popular but unproven trends without asking questions first and learning why. I'd rather reveal my ignorance and learn something new than jump on the bandwagon... Get this wheel... oh no, now get this wheel... etc. I want to know why the wheel is being reinvented in the first place. (Metaphorically speaking).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
Most folks do not post about positive long term results of a modification.
But some people do! I'm still bragging about what I did to manage my transmission temperatures 10 years after the fact, even though in that 10 years better solutions have been invented. Since it has been 10 years since the last of the 2 million 7.3L were produced, I was thinking surely there would be more early adopters of the IH pump on the 99-03 by now, but where are they?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
I'll let you know in ten years if the IH pump is still functional. I'll let you know a lot sooner if it fails.
Thanks! I'll bet a lot of people would be interested to know too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
I apologize for tagging your repeated questioner posts as thinking the mod was dumb. You are just vetting the mod before doing it too.
Thanks again, and you nailed it. Not gonna pick a waterpump because it's cool, but because it cools.
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post #44 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 10:03 AM
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bumping this thread - any other updates on this IH pump? Is this the way to go - or stay oem with external filtration...
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post #45 of 79 (permalink) Old 02-08-2014, 08:20 PM
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