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Thread: Removing fats from WVO? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-23-2016 05:50 PM
Excalibur773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencnaz View Post
The best way to get rid of the fats is to turn it into biodiesel. This chemical reaction will strip the free fatty acids out and turn them into methyl ester chains.
Is there a trick to dealing with the fats as opposed to straight oil when turning it into biodiesel. I had the most problems ever when I got to the bottom of the barrel. I struggled to get separation. In the end most of it did but there's still a couple of gallons slowly dropping the water while bio gradually floats to the top. Taking 6 -12months so far.. Thanks
06-23-2016 03:53 PM
Spencnaz The best way to get rid of the fats is to turn it into biodiesel. This chemical reaction will strip the free fatty acids out and turn them into methyl ester chains.
06-23-2016 08:02 AM
go wvo Hi Excallibur

1,500km on a set of GP's ----- I can only say what I have experienced, I have a set of Bosch plugs off eBay and have done 10,000km on them in the Hiace so far, and much more than that in the Hilux without a problem, are they genuine Bosch plugs is my question.

I still say gp's are part of servicing and you can expect to replace them, but of course, not at 1,500km. I do give mine a longer glow rather than a shorter one here in this cold climate, nice to have them fire on the first compression and not spray fuel onto the cylinder walls to end up in the sump.

Fuel price ----- yes, low prices here too, near half of what it was a while back, free still cheaper, I do it to save money, I am a Vietnam Vet and get $38 a day, cant live on that. Suppose to be retired but I still work.

Washing ----- No, I don't wash, but I would like too, that's next on the to do list and will take some thought to automate it. I use timers on my system so I can set and walk away.

6 filters ---- cant filter too much can you. Never heard of over-filtering as opposed to under.

WMO ---- After my first experience with it I wont be using it again, far too much carbon to combust properly I found, carbon build-up on injector tips frightened me off it. don't know if it was wmo for sure, but that engine died on me, killed GP's, started to smoke (blue), got real hard to start, was priming it with a shot of propane to start it in the finish. Was it wmo? I think it was. Excess carbon and stuck rings, I didn't dismantle it for a look, but it died with lack of compression and blue smoke, and that's stuck rings, rings seized in the groves with excess carbon. So go wvo and never had another problem.

Have we gone off thread and hogged the conversation here Excalibur, nobody has growled at us yet. Want to pm me, jfscott(at)optusnet.com.au

Allan
Portland
Victoria
Australia
06-22-2016 09:35 PM
Excalibur773 Allan

Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Burning gp's. Mineral oil has more energy than diesel, therefore it burns hotter. When I tried wmo I recall the metal tip enclosing the wire had eroded and exposed the innards on one side, which was the side that faced the injector. Wvo does not have the energy of diesel so burns cooler, so no glow plug problems.
Yes, it isn't the start that is the problem is it, its the hotter burning oil. The glow plugs wont do it.
Try a gp on a battery, they get red hot real quick, couple of seconds. They self regulate a bit, like a light globe, the resistance increases with temp.
You can get ceramic tip plugs, go for a set of those for a try, has to be the answer?
Thanks for the thoughts however it doesn't explain why one of the worst cases I've heard of, the guy was using wvo +10% diesel, heat exchangers, injector heaters, two tank, 3km purge. He destroyed a set of Bosch GP in 5months on about 1500km. Pics showed the identical problem to mine and others. The tip casings are all pocked and blistered.
What I know now is I don't need to heat the GP's to anywhere near the 800C (some to 1100C) that they do. I only need exceed autoignition temperature of 210C and some of that heat can come from compression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
LPG cylinders, yes, start collecting them, 45kg house bottles, I use them upside down for the drain tap at the bottom. I use 5/16 steel fuel line off an old car, the bends are good, grind around where the hole will be to prepare the surface for the next step. Drill a neat hole in the tank (after vacuuming the tank out with your vac pump, careful, the exhaust will be propane and ignitable), then insert your tube and superglue it in position. I build up a little mound around the pipe and the tank with sawdust and superglue for extra strength and I haven't had one fail or leak yet.
While it wont pass the vehicle design regs I have done my vehicle tank this way too, again, no failure or leaks. Otherwise it's tap the hole and screw a fitting in, or solder or bronze the steel tube in, super glue is just a very easy way to achieve a penetration and tube fitting anywhere in a tank.
I have 2 of those cylinders set as upflow settler vessels. I always thought they would be good vessels for vacuum treating. I'll put the feelers out for a couple more. I like your DIY approach to piping, nice. I'll weld some fittings on as that's one of my trades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Settling is the key to it all, you read this a lot, its the secret to separating the oil from the goop, don't try to filter it out, let it settle out before extracting the clear oil off the top in the drum it is collected in. Filters last 1000lt (IBC) easy.
I agree with the thought about settling. The thing about settling is that it's working 24/7, even while I'm sleeping or out riding my motorcycle. I have my upflow settler set up so the fuel drips out at the rate I ultimately use it. So if I'm getting more than I need, I slow the drip rate. I've not had to replace any downstream filters in a long time and there is 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Good oil will be 90% clear in the drum from the right places. It is waste here, can get all you want, free. I picked up 200 lt today, and 300 last week!
Nice going with the oil haul. I have some hundreds of liters of wvo just waiting for me to make bio. I stopped making when pump diesel dropped to prices I never thought I'd ever see again. It wasn't that long ago that I lost my main free wvo supply because someone had offered a bounty on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
I would like to wash my oil, but that's another story, with emulsions and their problems, I have washed small quantities in plastic bottles by shaking and amazed at what comes out in the water. So settled, filtered to 1u, washed and vacuum dried is my goal.
I'd like to know more about your washing technique. I once hot water washed a sample of typical black wmo. The wash was a horrible brown opaque liquid looking like a milkshake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Is it all worth the effort? My word it is, no more $80 fill-ups for me.
It's more work than many would realize but it is fun and one can save a good chunk of change
06-22-2016 09:56 AM
go wvo Hi Excallibur773

Burning gp's. Mineral oil has more energy than diesel, therefore it burns hotter. When I tried wmo I recall the metal tip enclosing the wire had eroded and exposed the innards on one side, which was the side that faced the injector. Wvo does not have the energy of diesel so burns cooler, so no glow plug problems.

Yes, it isn't the start that is the problem is it, its the hotter burning oil. The glow plugs wont do it.

Try a gp on a battery, they get red hot real quick, couple of seconds. They self regulate a bit, like a light globe, the resistance increases with temp.

You can get ceramic tip plugs, go for a set of those for a try, has to be the answer?

LPG cylinders, yes, start collecting them, 45kg house bottles, I use them upside down for the drain tap at the bottom. I use 5/16 steel fuel line off an old car, the bends are good, grind around where the hole will be to prepare the surface for the next step. Drill a neat hole in the tank (after vacuuming the tank out with your vac pump, careful, the exhaust will be propane and ignitable), then insert your tube and superglue it in position. I build up a little mound around the pipe and the tank with sawdust and superglue for extra strength and I haven't had one fail or leak yet.

While it wont pass the vehicle design regs I have done my vehicle tank this way too, again, no failure or leaks. Otherwise it's tap the hole and screw a fitting in, or solder or bronze the steel tube in, super glue is just a very easy way to achieve a penetration and tube fitting anywhere in a tank.

'Fuge, yes, I had been planning to make one too, I don't feel the need for one now with vacuum dewatering, and I don't use anything but 1u whole house clear filters wrapped with bed sheet, they aren't fast flow tho, oil only trickles thru, they restrict the flo so they must be filtering fine.

The white bed sheet quickly darkens with particles, I don't imagine much gets past the dozen or so turns of bed sheet, in fact I can tell you the filters inside are still white when dismantled. They last a long time, and it is my contention that the more blocked the filter the finer it is filtering.

Centrifugal pump? Just a little ebay 380 watt (1/2hp) garden pump, I will try a 1hp pump when I get one, it will heat oil faster for a faster flo, mine is a slow process, probably slower than a centrifuge, that's ok, I am retired!

Contrary to popular thought a throttled (at the outlet) centrifugal pump draws less power than full flow, it is doing less work. Put you hand over your vac cleaner and the motor increases speed because it is not moving air.

Settling is the key to it all, you read this a lot, its the secret to separating the oil from the goop, don't try to filter it out, let it settle out before extracting the clear oil off the top in the drum it is collected in. Filters last 1000lt (IBC) easy.

Good oil will be 90% clear in the drum from the right places. It is waste here, can get all you want, free. I picked up 200 lt today, and 300 last week!

I would like to wash my oil, but that's another story, with emulsions and their problems, I have washed small quantities in plastic bottles by shaking and amazed at what comes out in the water. So settled, filtered to 1u, washed and vacuum dried is my goal.

Is it all worth the effort? My word it is, no more $80 fill-ups for me.

Allan
Portland
Vic
Australia
06-21-2016 07:50 PM
Excalibur773
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Thanks, been doing it a long time, found the easiest ways, no mess.
I also been doing free diesels for maybe a dozen+ years I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Not on wvo, I had tried wmo in the past and had trouble with glow plugs burning out. Have to make sure you are getting genuine Japanese glow plugs and not a scam in a copied box, and I am not sure how to do that either.
Even Denso ones were burning out too quickly. Bosch seem worse, not sure. The problem isn't the plugs as such. They work fine in an engine running pump diesel. I think the issue occurs when the fuel leaves too much carbon residue. Add carbon to red hot steel and we all knows what that does!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Longer feed wire? Of course glow plugs are consumables, like spark plugs, they operate in an extreme environment and don't last forever anyway.
Longer feed wire is a good thought, Mmmm some heat would be wasted extenally but would work. My last Bosch GP's only lasted 6 months so I decided to try reducing current because I reasoned that carbon was destroying the GP tips. I set up a simple experiment.. I fitted 2 new Bosch GP's to cyls 1 &2. I wired a separate battery, positive to 1 and negative to the other. The head completes the circuit. Effectively each GP is the resistor for the other. I'm down to 20seconds glow time and it starts almost perfect. Next I'll try 15sec. I think this proves 11V GP's arent needed for our engines. The final solution is to find some higher voltage GP's, perhaps 24V type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
As I say, I know I suck up some animal fat, or I assume it is, the white stuff near the bottom, I never see it again after I subject the oil to a little heating and vacuum, I suspect it is water as well, or attached to water. I will add more vacuum cylinders as I go, great place to store your processed oil, in a vacuum. Perfectly dry, nothing can grow in it, can't oxidise etc.
To those that say, vacuum to hard, too much plumbing, vacuum pump will leak past the seals and a multitude of other excuses I say poppycock, you haven't tried it. Settling first in the collection drums (20lt) and filtering thru a one micron filter wrapped with a dozen turns of bedsheet into a vacuum to boil the water out (and a LOT comes out) beats all the hours trying to dry it by heating and bubble washing etc hands down.
Sounds like a nice idea. I bought a vacuum pump a while back. I'd like to try pulling a vacuum on my diesel. Do you use a retired LPG cylinder for the vessel.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
Now I haven't tried it, and I am not thinking of buying a 'fuge just yet, but I think my oil would be as good as and maybe dryer than 'fuged oil. I filter thru another 1 micron filter, again wrapped with bedsheet, into the oil tank in the Hiace. For a long trip I store extra in 15lt plastic containers and pump into the main tank with a little eBay facet copy pump thru an inline filter as I drive.
I made a 'fuge once (now redundant) but I think they are far too energy hungry especially when you consider that an upflow settler gets a result that doesn't clog downstream 1 filters. I like minimum 8 week settling cycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go wvo View Post
I don't heat my oil except it gets a little warm thru the centrifugal pump at lo flo. Heating lots of oil with a big wattage heater must add to your electricity bill, then your free oil is starting to cost you. We are cold here, southern coast of Oz, all my oil is cold, I have no need at all to heat it in bulk quantity.
What is the centrifugal pump that you have?
06-21-2016 06:23 AM
go wvo Hi Excalibur773

Nice write up with some good ideas. ------------ Thanks, been doing it a long time, found the easiest ways, no mess.

You run the same engines as I do. ------------ Great little motors, we don't have 6lt engines here in Oz, fuel too expensive.

Have you had glow plug failures? ---------- Not on wvo, I had tried wmo in the past and had trouble with glow plugs burning out. Have to make sure you are getting genuine Japanese glow plugs and not a scam in a copied box, and I am not sure how to do that either.

I've burnt lots of them out over the years running wvo and other free mineral oil based diesels that I make. I found recently that they last if I reduce current to them. --------- Longer feed wire? Of course glow plugs are consumables, like spark plugs, they operate in an extreme environment and don't last forever anyway.

As I say, I know I suck up some animal fat, or I assume it is, the white stuff near the bottom, I never see it again after I subject the oil to a little heating and vacuum, I suspect it is water as well, or attached to water. I will add more vacuum cylinders as I go, great place to store your processed oil, in a vacuum. Perfectly dry, nothing can grow in it, can't oxidise etc.

To those that say, vacuum to hard, too much plumbing, vacuum pump will leak past the seals and a multitude of other excuses I say poppycock, you haven't tried it. Settling first in the collection drums (20lt) and filtering thru a one micron filter wrapped with a dozen turns of bedsheet into a vacuum to boil the water out (and a LOT comes out) beats all the hours trying to dry it by heating and bubble washing etc hands down.

Now I haven't tried it, and I am not thinking of buying a 'fuge just yet, but I think my oil would be as good as and maybe dryer than 'fuged oil. I filter thru another 1 micron filter, again wrapped with bedsheet, into the oil tank in the Hiace. For a long trip I store extra in 15lt plastic containers and pump into the main tank with a little eBay facet copy pump thru an inline filter as I drive.

I don't heat my oil except it gets a little warm thru the centrifugal pump at lo flo. Heating lots of oil with a big wattage heater must add to your electricity bill, then your free oil is starting to cost you. We are cold here, southern coast of Oz, all my oil is cold, I have no need at all to heat it in bulk quantity.

For those of you finding brown goop in your filters etc, that is diesel bug (my name), a fungus that needs water to grow, don't use a gauze filter in your pickup, you want the goop to come out of the tank into your first sediment (only) filter, it will block an in tank gauze and give you hard to find starvation. Diesel bug needs something to grow on, bit of food scrap, and free water in your tank or wet oil. I have washed gallons of diesel bug out of boat fuel tanks. It is clear when it starts to grow, you will see it on the sides of containers sometimes. It cannot grow without water or wet fuel. I will tell you that my oil tank is perfectly free of anything on the bottom, a steel tank, it has no build up of anything in it.

Toyota has return to tank from the IP, this oil is at water temp, the oil tank gets quite warm, but more important is that all the oil is sterilized by heating, then returned to the tank.

If your oil is not perfectly dry you will have trouble with it, the vacuum easily dries it very well.

Allan
Portland
Victoria
Australia
06-20-2016 08:15 PM
Excalibur773 Hi go wvo
Nice write up with some good ideas. You run the same engines as I do.
Have you had glow plug failures? I've burnt lots of them out over the years running wvo and other free mineral oil based diesels that I make. I found recently that they last if I reduce current to them.
Has it been an issue for you?
Thanks.
06-19-2016 10:48 AM
go wvo I know a chap here who has run his HZ on solid fat for 15 years, and never had a spanner on the engine.

Of course it has all heated lines, and heated tank, he does 15 km before he changes over, has to open the bonnet to swap fuels. He stopped her on fat once, and got stuck into it with a blow torch and got her started again.

This is not hearsay, I know him and his vehicle personally.

So it can be done, just have to heat it all. Animal fat is a good fuel, I have no doubt of that, just don't ever let the motor get cold without purging on diesel.

I cold upflo into two 100lb propane bottles in series with a vacuum in them, and pump with a little eBay pump into a 1 micron whole house filter wrapped with a dozen turns of bed sheet. With the outlet of the pump throttled to slow the flo, the oil has time to heat in the pump to flo thru the filter. I let my 20lt drums settle first and lower a pickup tube into the oil until I start to get the animal fat. I have a gauze filter after the drum pickup, and a little gauze filter on the drum pickup.

Pouring oil thru filter socks, never done it, forget the messy idea.

I am amazed to see water boiling out of the oil like lemonade in the filter when it hits the vacuum, and the outlet of the vac pump vents water vapour, you can see it.

I would not have believed this much water could be in clear settled oil. Starting near the bottom of the drum where there is a little animal fat shows the most water boiling from the oil, as the level drops there is less water. I don't mind a little animal fat in my fuel, it all burns and I heat the oil as it leaves the tank, and use another I micron whole house filter wound with bed sheet in the Hiace for her wvo filter, and a fuel pump at the tank after the heater.

I strictly purge back to diesel before stopping for any period other than a shop stop, they don't like starting on oil.

I have done 1000's (and 1000's) of km on wvo in the Hiace and Hilux, both vehicles near 30 years old, Hiace turns 30 next year. I have (bought home yesterday) a factory fitted turbo motor for her. We can do 5000km in one trip without buying fuel, take 500 lt with us, now that's heavy for the little 2.4, so needs the turbo.

Seal the filter ends with silicon before you use them to stop the oil short flowing around the ends

Wvo works so well in these old indirect injection Toyota's that I have no intention of ever making bio, why bother when wvo works so well.

I have been a blender when I started, but now a firm believer in two tanks. I have never mixed petrol with oil.

Allan
Portland
Vic
Australia
04-02-2012 11:37 PM
Spencnaz BTW, you want to get oil with the highest cetane rating or the engine will sound like a washer machine full of rocks.
04-02-2012 11:36 PM
Spencnaz I understand your hesitation on making biodiesel. Here's my advise. Make a couple small batches like a liter or so to get yourself familiar with the process then move up.

People ask me all the time if biodiesel is hard to make. I reply to ask them if they can bake a cake by using the instructions on the cake mix box. Now if they're completely illiterate, most will say yes. I tell them to be very careful with the chemicals involved but have fun with the learning experience.

I've made biodiesel from oil that smelled like a skunk's pooter, but it turned out just fine.
03-24-2012 02:52 PM
workin4thedirt
Quote:
Originally Posted by hheynow View Post
The fatty oil I'm dealing with is non-hydro soy. I can see tiny crystals floating on the surface when at ambient temp, but is totally liquid at 40*F.
Did you ever figure out how to manage that stuff? I live in the northwest and snagged 65 gallons in cubies yesterday. It looks relatively clean, but it's solid. The box states that it's nothing but soybean oil. It also melts easily between your fingers. I've got a heated second fuel system, but my wvo processor is outside (cold upflow.) Soybean oil has one of the lowest cetane ratings among the common fryer oils, so I want to use it. I haven't experimented with it yet to see how it works. I thought I might just check around for ideas first. I'm not interested in producing bio with it either.
06-10-2007 01:31 PM
Spotty
Re: Removing fats from WVO?

yum
06-10-2007 10:27 AM
hheynow
Re: Removing fats from WVO?

4000 gallons? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smokin.gif[/img] Forget calling it butter...What settles looks like [pancake] batter. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif[/img]
06-10-2007 08:48 AM
Abbey
Re: Removing fats from WVO?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You call it butter...I call it sludge. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]No matter what you call it,it will make bio.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps... but if you live north of florida, all those tallows will just be bio-sludge when the temperature drops below 70 degF.

[/ QUOTE ]Right thats why I use it in the summer ( I have 4000 gal storage )
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