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'99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke Engine and Drivetrain Discussion of the '99 & up 7.3L Power Stroke diesel engine and drivetrain in the 1999-Up Super Duty trucks and Excursions. No gas engine discussion allowed except on transmissions and drivetrain that pertain to all models. Please confine discussion of topics in this forum to those items that are specific to the 7.3L Power Stroke engine.

Thread: 2000 F350 oil pan removal Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-10-2019 03:10 PM
klhansen
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntonkin View Post
This can be done, as I just got mine out to the front. The cab had to be jacked up 7" and the engine up 5.3". Loosened the nuts holding the trans to the cross member and took out the radiator & trans cooler. I have 2001 club cab and I think a crew cab my be easier to get the pan out to the rear. Even as high as I had it, my pan wasn't even close to coming out to the rear.

I am going to install a Moroso pan & gasket per Moroso's instructions once I get the RTV off the engine block.
With all the stuff you messed with, it might have been easier just to pull the engine. JMHO
Getting the RTV removed from the engine block will likely be a giant PITA with it still in the chassis.

Hope it works out for you.
08-10-2019 10:33 AM
ntonkin This can be done, as I just got mine out to the front. The cab had to be jacked up 7" and the engine up 5.3". Loosened the nuts holding the trans to the cross member and took out the radiator & trans cooler. I have 2001 club cab and I think a crew cab my be easier to get the pan out to the rear. Even as high as I had it, my pan wasn't even close to coming out to the rear.

I am going to install a Moroso pan & gasket per Moroso's instructions once I get the RTV off the engine block.
04-02-2016 11:15 AM
mjrfd99 Many 7.3 in the family and friends -work too. Do it the right way IMHO -I think I have spotted a few short cut replacement jobs and they're usually leaking. IIRC the plastic tube at the top of the firewall is usually cracked or broke when the jack job is done.
Yes I've seen a few done by a dealer and they were "jack up jobs" IMHO but you can bet those people paid for the motor pull and DID NOT get it. IMHO get the Moroso Pan - I didn't know about it when I had mine done [at my p/t job's diesel shop BIG thanks to them] 6 yrs ago. IMHO the Ford pan is cheezy tin. I've been watching mine like a hawk since replacement and chasing rust spots every couple months
PS--- only warning I ever got here was a P O'ed rant about the cheezy pan. LOL
PSS---I bought a couple yrs when the pan was weeping on a suggestion here to coat it with POR-15 Good stuff!!
04-02-2016 09:33 AM
Maryland dieselnick Ok, good morning, Point being delivered by myself and NYB is; it is not the best practice.
In 32 yrs. I've seen people do things like that because they did not know better, they are behind in tine on the clock or were extremely limited in finances and or equipment.

I often heard people make statements like," oh, so you must be smarter than the engineers at ford....or in this case, " unless you are smarter than the engineers at Dow Corning".
My take on that statement is this; sometimes they are, sometimes not. One also has to take into account the context in which this is being discussed. Are we talking about total IQ or we talking about it in a context to which the applicable subject is part and parcel to a much bigger thing.
I have worked with engineers from different manufacturers hand in hand,in my bay or another company's bay and was meeting with an engineer there. Yes, I've have had in some cases take them to school and other times they have taken me. Several times I have solved problems TEAMS of them in their cubicals could not. Sometimes it will seem and the corporation seems stumped. There might be in fact on their team engineers have nailed it but there is a hierarchy. Sometimes the solution none but the manufacturer for one reason or another chooses to slow roll, in ANY event as there are long standing processes, that can get in the way of getting things done in a timely fashion. Manufacturers know this and sometimes will have a blanket program of cutting through some of that and having techs that might just be smarter, have noticed something, or have a solution.

Do not ever be surprised at all some mechanics are indeed smarter than some engineers.
You might also want to research what most of those guys sitting in their cubicals in New Jersey's polluted swamp land actually make or ones in the automotive business actually make. You might be floored to learn in your research what stars in this business make.

Onto your sketchy job, Do not take offense but yes reading how you performed this job and the statements you have makes us visualize all of what can go wrong and leave all the effort and time pulling the motor, all for not.
The spirit of NYBs statement, as I view it, is trying to point you in the direction of excellence and also having a desire to not have somebody stumble upon this thread in search of advise on how to perform this very common repair on the 7.3 and think that the way you did your job is appropriate. It's not appropriate practice to endorse on this caliber site.
You have oil running down the block due to gravity. It then gets pulled out on the sealing surface with a combination of gravity and surface tension. You are fighting bending over backwards upside down, all twisted up under that motor prepping, turning back to deal with applying sealant to that big awkward an while possible you have your freshly prepped surface become contaminated with oil. Maybe it hang for a time period and was wiped down inside and you curtailed that, great, sketchy at best and very hard on ones body.

Applying higher than normal temperature to RTV ( room temperature ) sealant. Had your
Thermometer gun with you to make sure you were at 60 degrees celcius (140 F).
Did you realize that the guy in that cubical in an office sitting in NJ's polluted swamp land is an engineer, who write and think most often in an engineer's terms.
When an engineer refers to something,like in this, you with that thermometer gun in one hand (if that happened. I do not know. You did not say and am giving you benifit of doubt) and your heat gun in the other applying heat to a few inch area and moving along is ABSOLUTELY not what that engineer was talking about. He is talking about that product in its entirety be brought up to 60C not what you are talking about. Comparison would be heating up an oven or booth to cure paint on a vehicle or something else.

Now the stand, No it is not extremely dangerous or difficult following my fore mentioned statement and recommendation on the stand to be used.

I have been in tight spots where something a little questionable was performed but special attention was given to the factors that COULD cause the repair to go South and there was no other viable option. I do not know the factors that caused you after all the labor and time to get the engine out why do performed the repair the way you did.
You referred to it as a patch job!!! Why not be able to say," look at that job. It's kick A.. job".Blah blah?

Sure you are nice enough and well intention, just needed addressing.
04-01-2016 09:59 AM
SuperDutyTrooper
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYB View Post
Heat guns remove moisture from the localized air they blow upon, and that is an anathema to the concept of moisture curing. Hence, I wouldn't bother to use a heat gun to accelerate or "deepen" the cure of a bead of RTV. If anything, the use of the heat gun may prolong the actual curing time, and leave the efficacy of the sealant in doubt.
According to Dow Corning:
Room Temperature Cure

A room temperature cure process can be used for either the RTV Elastomeric or RTV Elastoplastic Coatings. After application, the coating is simply allowed to cure in ambient room conditions (roughly 70F/21C and 30-80% relative humidity).

Mild Heat Acceleration

All of the above considerations for room temperature curing apply for coatings which cure with mild heat acceleration. However, after applying the coating and allowing a few minutes at ambient conditions, the coated part can then be elevated to modest temperatures up to about 60C for 5-10 minutes. This will help achieve more complete cure in this surprisingly short time.
Curing Methods - Dow Corning

I can't say for sure if the statement above applies to all types of RTV, but I believe your blanket statement to the opposite is clearly questionable . . . unless maybe you are a chemical engineer smarter than the ones at Dow Corning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYB View Post
Following the instructions and best practices is great... but deciding to omit one instruction because it is difficult kind of defeats the purpose of following the rest of the instructions. In this case, deciding not follow the one instruction of turning the engine upside down to apply the recommended sealant and permit it to cure for at least 24 hours at room temperature... makes all of the other instructions that were dutifully followed a matter of close, but no cigar.
Sounds simple enough, but turning a fully assembled approx 800 lb 7.3 engine upside down on an engine stand is a difficult and dangerous process, but maybe in addition to chemical engineering, you've mastered that as well. Should I have stripped the engine further by removing the very heavy heads so that the block could be turned safely? Maybe. It was cost vs. benefit and risk decision that I don't regret. And I don't particularly care for cigars.
03-31-2016 04:40 PM
NYB
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDutyTrooper View Post
The internet does not seem to share your belief. From what I've read "room temperature vulcanizing" silicone will harden or cure without a heat gun or other heat source, but a heat source does not really change it. If it did, it would have a hard time surviving on a hot 7.3!

So you're probably right that I wasted some time with the heat gun, but I don't believe I damaged it.
Nick is absolutely correct. Heat guns can and will change the curing process of RTV. And not for the better.

To understand this, one must first accept the fact that the CURING phase of RTV is different than the PERFORMANCE phase once the RTV has cured. Just because some RTVs can perform all day inside 600 degree F ovens doesn't mean that they can successfully cure under a heat gun, even if it was dialed down to blow at half that temperature.

Most RTV silicones are non catalyzed single part MOISTURE curing adhesives. They require moisture to cure, and begin curing upon exposure to ambient humidity. What does a heat gun do? The forced blowing of heated air removes moisture from the ambient air surrounding the bead of single part adhesive, and if anything, lengthens the cure time for as long as the heat gun is applied.

It is a mistake to judge the external skinning of a one component moisture curing adhesive with the actual curing of the entire bead of adhesive. Time and chemical reaction with ambient moisture are the necessary ingredients to cure and strengthen a single part moisture curing RTV. While curing can occur in a wide temperature range between minus 25 to plus 120 degrees, the products are ideally cured at room temperature, just like the name suggests.

Heat guns remove moisture from the localized air they blow upon, and that is an anathema to the concept of moisture curing. Hence, I wouldn't bother to use a heat gun to accelerate or "deepen" the cure of a bead of RTV. If anything, the use of the heat gun may prolong the actual curing time, and leave the efficacy of the sealant in doubt.

Following the instructions and best practices is great... but deciding to omit one instruction because it is difficult kind of defeats the purpose of following the rest of the instructions. In this case, deciding not follow the one instruction of turning the engine upside down to apply the recommended sealant and permit it to cure for at least 24 hours at room temperature... makes all of the other instructions that were dutifully followed a matter of close, but no cigar.
03-30-2016 08:48 PM
SuperDutyTrooper
Quote:
Originally Posted by klhansen View Post
You may be right about being able to get to the rear bolt, but I still don't think it would be easy. I'd rather not fight with it myself.
Also, the tranny would probably hit the cab floor by then as well.
I agree, there's no way it will be easy, and I wish I had gotten it right the first time - I was VERY careful and followed ALL instructions except the one about turning the engine upside down and still got it only about 90% right. But since I likely will have this problem, my thoughts are I will TRY to lift the engine and pull just the pan, and if it doesn't work, then I'll finish the job and pull the whole engine out. I think it would be worth the minor amount of additional effort to give it a try. But that's a ways down the road for me even if my fix doesnt work, gonna spend some time with the boat at the lake this summer, instead of under the truck like I did all last summer!


Also, I did not contemplate attempting pulling the pan without removing the trans - that was one of the "other things I didnt think of off the top of my head". I've found that pulling the trans is really not that bad if you have an adequate supporting jack. Reinstallation was also surprisingly easy both times that I've done it. Pulling the whole front off of the engine and the truck, manuevering that big-ass engine in and out, and disconnecting all of the fuel and electrical is what I would like to avoid if it is at all possible.


Thanks for the well-wishes on the patch job!
03-30-2016 04:02 PM
klhansen
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDutyTrooper View Post
I dont think you'd need the 12" or so as shown in my pic . . . I think you'd only need a few inches to get a wrench in to unbolt the front and rear of the pickup tube.
You may be right about being able to get to the rear bolt, but I still don't think it would be easy. I'd rather not fight with it myself.
My 18" estimate was from block surface to the bottom of the pan, because there would be a crossmember in the way unless you lifted the motor higher than the obstructions between the top of the engine and the cowl. Also, the tranny would probably hit the cab floor by then as well.

I hope your fix works on the RTV. I have had oil seeps that I have ignored because it would be more trouble to fix than to just add oil when needed. Also I don't usually try to eat off my engine block.
03-30-2016 06:30 AM
SuperDutyTrooper
Quote:
Originally Posted by klhansen View Post
Your picture is a good indication of how much room you'd really need. Imagine trying to unbolt that rear pickup tube bracket without the 18" or so that you have the pan dropped down.
I dont think you'd need the 12" or so as shown in my pic . . . I think you'd only need a few inches to get a wrench in to unbolt the front and rear of the pickup tube.


Quote:
Originally Posted by klhansen View Post
BTW, your repatch with the RTV isn't a long term solution. The problem is, RTV won't stick to already cured RTV, so there will always be a leak path, and oil will eventually find its way thru. If you can live with a seep, then I guess that's OK.
The RTV most certainly sticks to everything else, so I'm not totally convinced that it will not stick to THOROUGHLY CLEANED existing RTV. . . I got this idea from a professional 7.3 mechanic who said that it worked for him. Like I said, however, the verdict is still open on the patch, but you're probably right, more than likely it is not a permanent solution. In which case at some point, I might get to find out if I am right when I say that removal of the pan with the engine lifted may in fact be possible.
03-30-2016 04:54 AM
Maryland dieselnick Morning Super, yes, I'm referring to the vulcanization process and what's happening during that processs ( vulcanization ) and at what temperature ( room ) and over what time period,( on back of tube ). Can somebody accelerate this with a heat gun? perhaps.
Some people fight windmills to try to get breeze. I will not fight, I will do it the very best way it can be done. I will not be returning to do it again. I will not have somebody with my work out there to leave them with an issue or others seeing it and asking," who did that".
But that me.
03-29-2016 08:44 PM
klhansen
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDutyTrooper View Post
And since the main thing that keeps the pan from coming out with the engine lifted up is the oil pickup tube, if you could raise the engine enough to unbolt the pickup tube (two bolts in the front, and one bracket bolt in the back) I would think you could pull the pan out entirely from between the block and the crossmember to enable a thorough cleaning? I just don't see why that wouldn't work, but I've never heard of anyone whose tried it.
Your picture is a good indication of how much room you'd really need. Imagine trying to unbolt that rear pickup tube bracket without the 18" or so that you have the pan dropped down. Then imagine doing it with the front differential and crossmember in the way. My arms only have one elbow each.


BTW, your repatch with the RTV isn't a long term solution. The problem is, RTV won't stick to already cured RTV, so there will always be a leak path, and oil will eventually find its way thru. If you can live with a seep, then I guess that's OK.
03-29-2016 10:03 AM
SuperDutyTrooper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland dieselnick View Post
One note I would make is RTV sealant stands for room temperature vulcanization. I am of the belief using heat guns can change a whole lot.
The internet does not seem to share your belief. From what I've read "room temperature vulcanizing" silicone will harden or cure without a heat gun or other heat source, but a heat source does not really change it.

So you're probably right that I wasted some time with the heat gun, but I don't believe I damaged it.
03-29-2016 09:12 AM
Maryland dieselnick One note I would make is RTV sealant stands for room temperature vulcanization. I am of the belief using heat guns can change a whole lot.
03-29-2016 08:51 AM
SuperDutyTrooper The oil pan is such a frustrating topic to me. Moroso makes a soild one piece oil pan gasket which is an option, and which I was going to use when I had my motor out but changed my mind. You can read my review of it here:
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...ations-525737/

I ended up using the Ford TA31 grey sealant, but I did not turn the engine upside down, I did it with it right side up on an engine stand. Not sure if this was the cause or if I just didn't apply enough sealant, but I've had issues with it continuing to leak in both the rear and front. In the rear, after I removed the trans, I could see I missed a tiny spot with sealant, and in the front, I have some very light seepage near the bottom of the curve that meets the front engine cover. In both cases, I've cut off the excess sealant original sealant and applied more sealant externally after a good cleaning with brake cleaner and compressed air. I believe I solved the problem in the rear, and the verdict is still open on the front, as I just did that one last weekend and haven't driven it yet.

If you were to decide to try the Moroso route, I think it might be possible to do it without removing the engine - you'd have to remove the turbo and a lot of other stuff off of the top and front of the engine and disconnect your water hoses for sure, and I'm sure several other things I cant think of off the top of my head. As KL said, removing the old sealant would be difficult, BUT I disagree that removing the pan itself is that difficult, if you have the space to cut it well with a box cutter and/or razor blade, it comes off not too bad with some light prying. And since the main thing that keeps the pan from coming out with the engine lifted up is the oil pickup tube, if you could raise the engine enough to unbolt the pickup tube (two bolts in the front, and one bracket bolt in the back) I would think you could pull the pan out entirely from between the block and the crossmember to enable a thorough cleaning? I just don't see why that wouldn't work, but I've never heard of anyone whose tried it.

Plus I'd sure like to hear from someone who had a successful installation of the Moroso oil pan, as I didnt get to that point, but maybe I should have.
03-28-2016 11:16 PM
klhansen
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickDog View Post
Do have to pull the pan all the way off or drop it down a couple of inches?
The problem is not how far you can pull it down, but how much trouble it would be to get everything actually clean and oil-free in order to get a good seal when putting it back together. I have removed a pan and let me tell you it's no easy task even with the engine on a stand and upside down. I would hate to try it laying on my back (or even overhead on under a lift) trying to get all the old sealant off with the front differential and engine crossmember in the way. You'd be much better off just pulling the engine and do it right.
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