|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|12-21-2018 07:09 PM|
|ford_doctor||The sad part is that this is so easy to correct. Either someone who knows W T F they are doing can easily fix what is there and or tell you what is missing -OR- a replacement harness should not prove to be too difficult to find... I'll bet ebay alone has a few offerings that are likely under $200 but what do I know? Really, this is not hard!|
|12-21-2018 10:27 AM|
|Scott Baxla||Pre Auction pics...|
|12-21-2018 10:25 AM|
Thanks Don for the ebay link to the Ford wiring book. That would certainly be the book if there is anything to find in it. And Like Ford Doctor just said, it seems like a good find and I should get it just for reference. I went to the local ford dealer - I called ahead of time to the parts dept and asked for a copy of the wiring diagram. They said to take my VIN number to the service dept and they should be able to print one for me. I went in and Service punted me back to Parts, and parts said they could not give out that information for liablility purposes. I could go to AllData, or Haynes, or bring the truck in and let them fix it... So far Ford has proven to be pretty useless. The parts guy did "show me" the 2013 book like the 2005 book that you just sent me the link to and demostrated (smoke & mirrors style) how the book did not have what I was looking for - a comprensive wiring harness diagram that I could examine to find missing parts. I'm not sure if it was in there, and he was unwilling to show me the same book for 2005... He tried to show me that the book is arrranged by system - head light system, windshield wiper system, etc, and if that is the case, then the book may not show me a comprehensive wiring diagram so I can figure out what is missing. Probably still a good reference.
Hansen, your AllData suggestion looks like a probable direction. I contacted them and they do actually have a "DIY" short term subscription that I could get info link to my 2005 F450 w/ 6.8L (one vehicle only) for about $30 they said.
So, here is where I am at the moment. I've got the dash apart, and my rebuilder guy has the harness w/ cut wires (has had it for a week now). He's not a very good communicator and he's a small business owner wearing many hats and way more to do than he has time to do. One of his 2 guys is his wiring guy. I was not sure what that meant - whether the young man actually had skills or if he's just been lucky a few times etc. (I rebuilt a wiring harness in a 72 F250 when I was a kid and it was a big deal even for that way more simple harness than what they are now.) They primarily do diesel rebuilds (they have 3-4 frames stripped down to frame only and painted, with trucks getting ready to go back together on top of them... All to say these guys are not hackers, they appear to be pretty sharp) They supposedly have lots of spare parts, including a few spare dashes (from diesels presumably) with wiring harnesses to look at for what's missing on mine. They quickly confirmed my suspicion that the OBD was missing, and said their initial take on the second bundle was trailer brake related. They used to have AllData subscription, but now use some other service which he says is more comprehensive than AllData was. So now that I'm finally getting some of that info out of him, I'm starting to feel like he's going to be able to get the harness repaired appropriately (when they can actually get to it...). I had asked if he wanted to solder the connections on before it went back in the dash, and that was when he asked me to bring it to him. (So he seems to be on board w/ soldering, but again not such a great communicator.) Now I've been waiting for a week and they are too busy at the moment on a big deadline to put a different motor together and getting that truck out. I'm going to miss my window to get the dash back together before leaving town for xmas (going to go south and spend a few weeks repairing my Dad's bathroom - I'm a builder type, not a truck guy - I just need the truck for my business.) So in my truck world everything is on hold until I get back and hopefully the harness will be repaired and ready for me to put the dash back together. And at the moment, it seems like the harness is in good hands with my rebuilder guy. And he won't be able to do anything to move the project forward while I'm in Fla because I've missed my window to get the dash back together before I go.
Thank you all for assisting with this issue. This seems like a great group of folks helping others out. Hopefully I'll be inspired to post pictures of the completed truck w/ dump bed when its done. I'll try to post pics of the auction listing if I can figure out the technology.
|12-20-2018 08:31 AM|
Good find! I think however that if this harness is cut up and connectors are missing a replacement harness is in order. Some connector pig-tails are available but they are expensive.
I used the number off the tag the OP supplied and found several harnesses but I think the number he supplied is not quite correct.
For $42.37 I would snag that book regardless!!!
|12-19-2018 07:19 PM|
I have a feeling you're going to need this wiring diagram book.
|12-19-2018 11:34 AM|
Thanks Hansen for the Data Link Connector link. (I'm assuming thats the same as OBD?) The wire colors and number of wires did not match up with mine though. Maybe '05 was a changeover year for that connector. Its at least a changeover year for wide track steering - it was one of my truck search criteria to get an 05 or later for turning diameter improvements. I'll look up AllData too.
Ford Doctor, that's an interesting lead on the 1st bundle. I'll try to look into it. I found daily safety inspection logs in the truck and one of the notes about a year before it was parked said headlights coming on and off. I'm assuming they repaired it because the notes did not continue as they did on other notes. There was also a note that said the seat needed to be replaced and the truck came without the seat, so they pulled the new seat - so maybe they also pulled some sort of newish headlight connector? What is your take on the missing OBD connector? My rebuilder has also suggested that the second bundle cuts appear to be related to trailer brakes and such, which matches up with your upfitter relay circuits lead for bundle 2.
I'm not sure what "inoperable" means either, other than they robbed some parts off of it. My rebuilder thinks there is not anything significant wrong with the truck, just missing parts. He thinks its a big company and a less desirable standard shift, gasoline truck (both features I was looking for) and they likely timed it out of their fleet. I'm still hopeful. Meanwhile my rebuilder guy can't do any testing yet because I've got the dash apart to clean out the caked on clay. Original upfitter notes say it was road maintenance truck (on dirt mining roads - likely sprayed w/ water to control dust...) Later safetly log notes say "powder truck" - hopefully nothing about being near explosions damaged the truck... I was hoping to figure out the missing connections and get the soldering done before it was back under a dash, but its clean now and ready to start going back together.
|12-19-2018 05:49 AM|
I went through the wiring schematics beginning with the Power Distribution at the CJB (Central Junction Box) connectors and nothing matches up with the specific wire descriptions you provided. I am positive that neither bundle of wires go to any specific CJB connector as a group. So I began looking at systems with components in the general area of the CJB. What I came up with to a high degree of certainty is this:
Look into these areas and see if you can confirm my findings
None of these would cause the truck to be "inoperable" whatever that actually means. The back of the CJB has 13 cavities with one being blank and one large red wire connected to the side supplying power. Some power is also fed from the BJB (Battery Junction Box) Assuming my findings are correct, you should continue cleaning you dash and then restore the light switch circuits and restore the vehicle. Then begin a proper diagnostic path.
|12-19-2018 03:57 AM|
Alldata may have short term subscriptions where you could get the wiring diagrams.
Here's a shot of an '03 Data Link Connector pinout with wire colors. They should be pretty close, as the DLC is standardized somewhat.
|12-18-2018 12:33 PM|
Thanks Michael & Hansen. That is good information. I've had poor luck locating accurate wiring diagrams in the past. Any recommendations on a source?
These wires in question are not folded back. They appear to have been cut and something removed. The truck was "inoperable" and purchased in auction. It was from a mining operation in AZ and they robbed some parts off of it during the last year they had it and it was abandoned for some reason. I'm certainly no wiring technician, but it did occur to me in hindsight that when I was taking the dash apart that I did not remember removing an OBD port, and on checking, it was indeed missing - however the only one I saw online appeared to have 6 wires and the bundle that is suspected to have been the OBD connector on my harness has 8. My rebuilder currently suspects the other 4 orange based wires from a different bundled lead may be from something like trailer brakes. I agree a good wiring diagram would be helpful if I can get my hands on one.
|12-17-2018 11:16 PM|
Not sure about the '05's but I doubt there are that many unused wires available from the factory.
On '99-'03 7.3's there's one - count 'em - one wire that's available already wired into the fuse panel. It's labeled customer access and is hot with key on with a 10A fuse. There are also 4 pass thru wires going from the area by the driver's side hood hinge to the panel under the dash, but they're not connected on either end. All the wires are blunt cut with some heat shrink on them, not folded over.
|12-17-2018 10:28 PM|
While I don't have specifics, I can tell you there are option wires in the bundle going to the back of the fuse panel. These are installed for aftermarket or optional equipment. some of the wires are spares in the bundle going under the hood for lights, hydraulic controls, auxiliary things, etc. There may be wires for upfitter switches that haven't been installed.
So, what I am saying is, wires folded back and not connected may be perfectly normal for your application and don't necessarily mean something nefarious.
As previously suggested, try to obtain a wiring diagram before doing anything drastic.
|12-13-2018 09:58 PM|
Scott, Welcome to TheDieselStop
What you need to do is get hold of a Ford Wiring diagram book (or DVD). That will have diagrams of all the circuits with wire colors, and also diagrams of connector pinouts. There are probably too many pages that you'll need for someone to send them to you without some real specific info from you on what exactly has been cut. The wiring may be different between diesel and gassers, but the factory wiring diagrams will have both.
Since this is a technical question, I'm going to move your thread to the 99-07 General Questions forum.
Someone may be able to help you out if you can give them specifics.
|12-13-2018 05:11 PM|
Fuse Panel Issue
I just found this group online in an effort to find some wiring assistance. I've just purchased an "inoperable" truck that I'm trying to bring back. Its a 2005 F450 4x4, std cab, 6 spd std tran, w/ 54,000 miles on it. Its actually a 10 cyl gas motor, not a diesel (and this site says diesel forum), but I'm hoping the issue I'm having would be the same in a diesel. (I got put into the emergency room last year from diesel fumes and have been looking all over for a truck like this w/ a 10 cyl gas motor.)
So,... there are some wires behind the fuse panel (the one under the steering wheel) that have been cut and the terminals into the fuse panel are missing. (I'm assuming they were scavenged for another truck.) At this point, I have no idea what terminals are missing, just that I'm looking at some cut ends on wires in the main harness coming to the back of the fuse panel. Does anyone have a picture of the back of the fuse panel w/ the connectors in place so that I can compare it to what I have? Any other assistance on the matter would be appreciated as well.
This is what I can see about what is cut:
1 bundle, and entire lead off the main harness wrapped independently w/ a label: 5C3T14401-08 (everything in this bundle is cut - 8 wires)
My best guess at wire size and color:
18Ga - 6 wires: 1 blue gray w/ 2 red stripes, 1 black, 2 brown (same size and color), 1 tan w/ 2 white stripes, 1 orange w/ 2 green stripes
14Ga - 2 wires: 1 red w/ 1 yellow stripe and 1 white stripe?, 1 blue w/ 1 orange stripe and 1 yellow stripe
From 2nd bundle - most wires still in tack and going to connectors in back of fuse panel, 4 wires are cut
My best guess at wire size and color:
18Ga - 2 wires: 1 orange w/ 2 yellow stripes, 1 orange w/ 2 blue stripes
12Ga - 2 wires: 1 solid orange, 1 Orange w/ 2 green stripes
At this moment, the main harness is out of the dash, and the whole dash disassembled and out of the truck. The truck was involved in a mining operation and everything was matted down with a heavy bed of clay dust, and I'm in the process of cleaning the dash out. After I get things cleaned, I'll put the dash back together, and turn the truck over to a refurbisher who brings trucks like this back to life. Overall, it looks like a pretty good truck - body in great shape, motor and standard tran appear to be intact, and there was a daily safety inspection log found in the truck that suggests the truck was operational until late Oct of 2017.