[JB4LCM]

04 Excursion, XLT 4x4 with 6.0 diesel. 108,000 miles.
Had the turbo replaced under warranty 9 years ago.

I live in Arizona - HOT here. A year ago the check engine light came on - says glow plug issue. My mechanic sais "you really don't need it here cuz it's so hot". So I did nothing about them.

It's gotten pretty cold here this winter and starting has been rough. So I took it in for a review to see how much it will cost for glow plugs. Turns out there are MORE codes coming up (check engine light is always on so no way to see new codes unless I have it checked).

Codes: Glow plugs, Injectors, FICM. they tested and found several glow plugs not working. Injector readings were "marginal" and the voltage from FICM was not correct.

They suggest replacing glow plugs, module and harness, injectors, FICM module, stand pipes and high pressure oil galley plugs.

NOTE: I am simply copying this info - I am NO mechanic so this is greek to me. Also has some minor oil leaks, total is about $10,200.

After I get the vehicle back - starting it was TERRIBLE. I need to try and start a couple of times and it runs REALLY rough for a couple minutes. When it's warmed up it runs great.

Question 1: Why is it that is runs so much worse after being looked at? Could they have accidentally done something to other glow plugs to make it run so crappy at the start? What do they do to "test" glow plugs? Unplug them? maybe forgot to plug a couple back in? yes - THAT rough.

Question 2: While I understand these codes are telling me that it is not performing optimally, when it's warm - it runs great. Is there a way to not spend ten grand to address these issues? How bad is it really? I assume there a LOT of really talented people here who ignore some of these issues and have their own processes to address/fix this stuff without spending 10k. Or am I wrong?

Question 3: Kelly blue book says this vehicle is worth $12K. What is this Excursion REALLY worth? It's VERY clean. I am the original owner. NO rust.

Sorry if this is way too long of a post that contains answers from previous posts.

 

[Maryland dieselnick]

The controller will cause glow plug problems.
The harnesses can go bad as do the ends if pulled off the glow plugs without the special tool for doing so.
If one or two plugs are not working, depending on how cold it is, can make it difficult to start.
Once it does start, the cylinders that do not have glow plugs working correctly will not fire off until the compression creates enough heat to fire off. This causes roughness and white smoke.
Injector are worn can cause a similar condition until the engine oil which gets run through a hydraulic pump, gets warm and thinned out enough to work properly. He can determine this be switching the computer to not compensate injector performance. Once switched to uncompensated it would rear its head.
They technician should be able to differentiate between the two conditions and tell you exactly how he came to his conclusion, rather than lumping it all together.
Updated oil rail plugs are a good idea to update if already in there doing injectors. If they are bad it would show on his scanner when looking at the hydraulics.

My feeling is he damaged a glow plug harness end or ends or did not plug one or two back in. Is unsure how to diagnose or is throwing everything out there for narfarious reasons.
I'm not a 6.0 expert and some will be along but wanted to get this started.

 

[fordsforever73]

Curious if your going through dealership for repair? There are alternatives. If you look at the vendor list on this forum, there is Strictly Diesel that is based in Arizona, they may be help you and keep costs reasonable. I'm pretty sure you could, as we call it "bulletproofing the 6.0L" for a lot less than 10 g's....and you would end up with a long lasting vehicle.

 

[Rich D]

Who did the work on it ????

 

[JB4LCM]

a local small shop that I have used for many years. I trust the guy but he's not a diesel guy. He just hired a 6.0 "guru" (or so he thinks) ....

 

[ArcticDriver]

A question for the knowledgable here but if it runs good when its warm and this issue really just got noticeable during cold starts this winter, then could a cheap approach be to replace the GPs since mechanic says, "Several are not working".

See if the cold start improves (which it should since it starts fine in warm temps) and then just keep driving it. Clear the codes and see which ones return?

Ask around and maybe someone can recommend a mechanic who really knows his Ford Diesels and make an appointment with him/her should the Ex start running poorly.

Just thinking of cheap options to keep it on the road.

 

[TKOPerformance]

First off, $10,200 is absurd for that work. You're talking about $3,000 in parts, and at worst maybe 10 hours worth of labor, even at $100/hr. that's only $1,000. You could get the truck bulletproofed for about $5,500, and that includes taking the heads off, getting them checked, etc, etc, etc. Injectors are only $1,500 a set.

Second, it seems pretty obvious that they are diagnosing this truck using only codes, which leads to you spending money while they troubleshoot it with parts instead of diagnosing it. IMO, this shop doesn't know a 6.0 from a Briggs and Straton.

Third, there is no excuse for the truck running poorly after this work is done. Something was done wrong or damaged. The poor cold running could be FICM, GP, or injector related. I would find out exactly what was replaced, and what parts they used. I would then take the truck to another reputable shop and get a cost to fix it correctly, and a quote from them on what the repairs should have cost. Then go back to the first shop and explain that they will be paying the second shop to fix everything that is wrong, and refunding you the difference between the second shop's quote and what they charged you. If they aren't okay with that the next two phone calls you make are to the BBB and the State AG. These guys really took advantage of you, and that can't be allowed to stand.

 

[JB4LCM]

The owner of the shop said "you really don't need this thing" and he's right - I don't have any thing to pull anymore - but I OWN it. He suggested a fuel additive and oil additive to help with the stickiness (?) that loosens up when the engine warms up. I'm all for a less expensive fix but is it just prolonging the more expensive fix for a short time?

 

[ArcticDriver]

The owner of the shop said "you really don't need this thing" and he's right - I don't have any thing to pull anymore - but I OWN it. He suggested a fuel additive and oil additive to help with the stickiness (?) that loosens up when the engine warms up. I'm all for a less expensive fix but is it just prolonging the more expensive fix for a short time?

I would say you won't know for sure until you have a mechanic look at it who knows his Ford Diesels.

But the GP issue is easy to diagnose and to repair so even if you decide to sell it, a prospective buyer would be more enthusiastic if it started in the cold without issue. Or you could wait to sell it until your summer when its 100* .

Just my 2 cents. :winking:

 

[ArcticDriver]

BTW, what were the additives he suggested?

Thanks

 

[JB4LCM]

TKO - no work was done, that was their estimate. $1700 included fixing 3 small oil leaks so $8500 for the stuff specified.

I suspect they may have not gotten all the GPs wired back up - or maybe broke a wire or 3?

No additives have been specified - he said he'd research it and advise ....

Already did the EGcooler in 2015 ... bulletproof.

 

[JJFreshTransport]

Here's what I have leaned after about $30,000 in wasted money I have spent on 6.0 diesel repairs on several of my trucks over the past few years...

Most diesel mechanics will tell you they know a lot about the 6.0 diesel motor. Most of the time you will find out after spending thousands of dollars that they knew nothing. This will include Ford dealers as well. I recommend first of all utilizing this site for information. The individuals within the site can provide you with anything you need to know with guaranteed information and knowledge. Before hiring any diesel mechanic always ask them to show you history of what 6.0 diesel repairs they have done and ask for references.

 

[BGilton79]

My advice would be to find a new mechanic. That estimate sounds like they googled you're codes and wrote down everything the Internet had to say. You need to find someone who has lots on experience and knowledge of the 6.0 PSD. That doesn't mean go to the dealer. Most dealers don't even have a real diesel tech. Do some research and find a well known shop. Good luck

 

[toddtoo]

When I first got my 6.0 it was hard to start, ran rough, then would smooth out warmed up. I knew nothing about 6.0's but a little about diesels so assumed glow plugs and thought no big deal being in Florida I will just deal with it. Over about 6 months it got progressively worse until one very important morning for my business, it would not start. That is what led me to this site and [email protected]. He explained to me that my FICM had failed and he gave me a very comprehensive initial education of my 6.0 and the need for regular knowledgeable maintenance. Armed with the proper info, several tests led me to a bad battery that ultimately destroyed my FICM. I'm not saying this is your problem but I offer it as an example that "guessing" and throwing parts at it without a firm grasp on all the operating systems of a 6.0 and the proper tools, knowledge and ability to trace problems back to the correct cause and effect can and will be a VERY expensive and painfully unnecessary journey. My advice would be to take the advice given to find a reputable shop that works on 6.0's every day... and a monitoring device for the future, if you don't already have one. Having been where you are, I certainly sympathize with your situation, but if you don't arm yourself with knowledge, then choose a shop wisely, you will end up banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[TKOPerformance]

I would highly suspect that the FICM is to blame too, and at 108k could the injectors be bad? Its not unheard of, but it would not be my first suspicion. Also, injectors rarely throw codes when they go bad. Rather a bad FICM will throw injector codes.

As far as additives, IMO all that stuff is snake oil. Some of it works, and some guys swear by it, but I've run a lot of different stuff through my engine over the years and have found that good synthetic oil changed regularly, and fuel filters changed regularly seem to be the best additives there are. If you're going to try and fix something use Archoil, as they have a money back guarantee on their 6.0 products.

You've gotten some really solid advice here. The quote you're getting from the shop is way too high, and their diagnosis indicates a distinct lack of knowledge about the 6.0. If you're going to pay someone to fix it they would not be my choice. You can post where you are and ask for a reputable shop in your area and I'll bet you get some good advice. Do that as a separate thread through to maximize your results.

 

[Rich D]

Not sure what part of AZ your in, but if your near or can make it to the N. Phx area you need to get the truck to Strictly Diesel. It's like $89 fee for a diagnosis and they back there work.

 

[Mcrafty1]

04 Excursion, XLT 4x4 with 6.0 diesel. 108,000 miles.
Had the turbo replaced under warranty 9 years ago.

I live in Arizona - HOT here. A year ago the check engine light came on - says glow plug issue. My mechanic sais "you really don't need it here cuz it's so hot". So I did nothing about them.

It's gotten pretty cold here this winter and starting has been rough. So I took it in for a review to see how much it will cost for glow plugs. Turns out there are MORE codes coming up (check engine light is always on so no way to see new codes unless I have it checked).

Codes: Glow plugs, Injectors, FICM. they tested and found several glow plugs not working. Injector readings were "marginal" and the voltage from FICM was not correct.

They suggest replacing glow plugs, module and harness, injectors, FICM module, stand pipes and high pressure oil galley plugs.

NOTE: I am simply copying this info - I am NO mechanic so this is greek to me. Also has some minor oil leaks, total is about $10,200.:2232censored:

After I get the vehicle back - starting it was TERRIBLE. I need to try and start a couple of times and it runs REALLY rough for a couple minutes. When it's warmed up it runs great.

Question 1: Why is it that is runs so much worse after being looked at? Could they have accidentally done something to other glow plugs to make it run so crappy at the start? What do they do to "test" glow plugs? Unplug them? maybe forgot to plug a couple back in? yes - THAT rough.

Question 2: While I understand these codes are telling me that it is not performing optimally, when it's warm - it runs great. Is there a way to not spend ten grand to address these issues? How bad is it really? I assume there a LOT of really talented people here who ignore some of these issues and have their own processes to address/fix this stuff without spending 10k. Or am I wrong?

Question 3: Kelly blue book says this vehicle is worth $12K. What is this Excursion REALLY worth? It's VERY clean. I am the original owner. NO rust.

Sorry if this is way too long of a post that contains answers from previous posts.

I hope this was a typo and was suppose to read :$1020.00 or there abouts? otherwise your 'mechanic' is screwing you at the same time he's screwing your truck. jmho

,,,,,I know my number is a little low....I also know the 'mechanics' number is through the roof. You could buy a long block, studded and deleted (from example:http://www.ashevilleengine.com/Home.html ) (No affiliation) and have it installed for around the price that your 'mechanic' is quoting/charging you to do injectors and a FICM.