[scodefastback]

Thanks in advance for the help. After my engine was rebuilt I sent my injectors to be rebuilt by Rosewood diesel. The engine ran a little rough at idle and smoked on acceleration. I have an Autoenginiuty (AE) scanner. At warm idle, ICP is just under 500 PSI. Of course, it bounces around between 450-550. ICP percent is about 9 and the volts are close to 1, again at warm idle. I didn't have any other codes. Checking the oil pressure at the HPOP reservoir, it was 55PSI at start up, 48 PSI when oil was 126F, and 18PSI when oil was 200F. The idle does seem to become rougher when the oil temperature reaches 200F. Fuel pressure at fuel filter housing is 60 to 65 PSI when warm even under hard acceleration. Compression is 350 to 400 PSI. Buzz test and cylinder contribution test passed. I took it to a local shop after I couldn't figure it out. They sent injectors to their distributer and they said the injectors were over fueling at idle and under load. I sent the injectors back to Rosewood and they went back through them again. They said they were out of spec by a small amount and they weren't sure how that could have happened. They double checked everything and sent them back to me. I installed them again and could not tell much difference. I ran it a few hundred miles, since it ran very well otherwise, to see if anything changed. I just checked everything again and now cylinder number 2, failed the contribution test, and the sound at idle is a bit louder. I have yet to open the valve cover. My plan is to contact Rosewood again today. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Bitterroot Diesel]

What kind of suggestions are you looking for?

 

[scodefastback]

I still have a rough idle when warm and smoke on acceleration.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Bitterroot Diesel]

It could be injectors or it could be something on the truck.

 

[scodefastback]

UPDATE: I spoke to Rosewood diesel and Full force diesel. They both suggested I swap the number 2 and 4 injectors and see if the fault follows the injector. Full force also asked if I had replaced the valve cover gasket and under valve cover harness. I did when I rebuilt the engine, but the parts were not OEM. He said that they have had problems with aftermarket parts for these components. I was going to swap the injectors, but I decided to repeat the contribution test. This time number 8 failed, but not number 2. I decided to change the harness and valve cover gasket first, and replace with parts from Ford. I'll drive it now, and see what I find.

 

[Bitterroot Diesel]

We don't carry any uvch or gaskets because the quality has decreased so much. I recommend to our customers to get them local from FoMoCo or International so at least you have a chance of it working properly and it not you are able to return it to them in person.

 

[scodefastback]

I replaced the left side with Ford valve cover gasket and under valve cover harness. At first I thought it solved the problem, but it had gotten a lot cooler outside so it just took longer to get it up to temperature so on short trips it was fine. I drove it 3 hours on a trip over Thanksgiving, it ran great except when I stopped after driving that far the Idle was noticeably rough. My fuel pressure remains 65 PSI when warm and under load. Oil pressure at HPOP resevoir when oil temperature is over 200F is 18PSI minimum at idle. It seems to me that the fuel and oil pressure are sufficient, when it warms up, my thought is that it's an electrical problem, but I can't figure out what it is. Any suggestions are recommendations are welcome. I do have an Autoenginuity.

 

[Bitterroot Diesel]

Why was the engine rebuilt? Have you checked for air bubbles in the fuel lines? Your compression numbers look good. You could try unplugging the injectors one by one to see if you can find the culprit. ICP/IPR both motorcraft? If you run out of things to check we could test them for you.

 

[scodefastback]

Why was the engine rebuilt? Have you checked for air bubbles in the fuel lines? Your compression numbers look good. You could try unplugging the injectors one by one to see if you can find the culprit. ICP/IPR both motorcraft? If you run out of things to check we could test them for you.

Thanks for the reply. The engine was rebuilt because the thrust bearing was completely destroyed, by excessive thrust load. When I was taking the engine a part what was left of the thrust bearing fell out on the floor. The crank was also replaced because the thrust surface was damaged. The previous owner had the transmission rebuilt and they mistakenly put an earlier solenoid pack with a later model torque converter. The later torque converters are modulated upon lock up and the early are on off. The mismatch causes a very harsh torque converter lock up. After three years it caused enough end play that the timing gear on the crank was eating into the front cover. All the aluminum through the pump and into the oil cooler, the engine lost oil pressure. I didn't catch that when I bought it. I'm very familiar with automatics, so I thought it was just an accumulator piston sticking.

I have not checked for bubbles. If you have a process for that test, I can try it. I do have a fuel return cross over so the fuel from the back of the driver's cylinder head and the front of the passenger's side is returned to the inlet before the regulator. I did try unplugging each injector while it was running and the drop was the same for each one. IPR and ICP are both Motorcraft and I even replaced them both anyway. I monitored ICP pressure, voltage and %, with my Autoentigrity and they have always looked good. I included some numbers in my first post. I'm going to set up and measure Perdels since I haven't done that yet. I did try unplugging the ICP even though the pressures looked good, and the pressure it went up as expected. No change in idle.

 

[Bitterroot Diesel]

Just put a temporary clear hose in on the fuel system. Are you running any tuning?

 

[scodefastback]

Just put a temporary clear hose in on the fuel system. Are you running any tuning?

I have a Hydra with a tow tune and economy options. It did the same thing before the Hydra was installed. I forgot what it was called in my previous post, but the fuel system upgrade I was trying to describe is the Riff Raff FRX fuel rail cross over.
I checked the perdells per the procedure I found on this forum. 1 was 1.7-1.4; 2 was 1.6-1.1; 3 was 2.7-2.4;4,5,6 and 7 were all 0. And 8 was 4.2-3.8. Since I have the Frx and an adrenaline HPOP, I figured they would be lower. I did the cylinder contribution test, and number 3, failed PO269, and 8 failed PO284. Not sure what to do next.

 

[klhansen]

#8 and occasionally #3 failing a CCT test is fairly common with the grey recall CPS. I doubt that's causing your issues. If you can try a different CPS, it may make the CCT failure codes go away, but not necessarily the rough idle and smoke.
Is the smoke black as in excess fuel, or white - caused either by unburnt fuel or coolant leaking into a cylinder.

 

[Bitterroot Diesel]

Basically you are looking to see if you are getting air inside your fuel system.

 

[scodefastback]

#8 and occasionally #3 failing a CCT test is fairly common with the grey recall CPS. I doubt that's causing your issues. If you can try a different CPS, it may make the CCT failure codes go away, but not necessarily the rough idle and smoke.
Is the smoke black as in excess fuel, or white - caused either by unburnt fuel or coolant leaking into a cylinder.

Thanks for the info. I should have explained the smoke more. The smoke is black, and it doesn't happen all that often. One scenario that makes it smoke is when I approach a slight grade and it doesn't down shift, so if I press the accelerator to force a downshift, it will really poor out the smoke. I always assumed that was too much fuel. I think it is lugging more than it should so that may be a different issue that I have not investigated yet. The other scenario is under a hard acceleration. I really have to work at making it smoke in this case, so there may not be a problem with smoke. It was worse before I had them go through the injectors, so maybe I'm over sensitive about the presence of the smoke. This is my first diesel, so I'm not experienced working on them. I think I have the dark blue CPS. I have tried different one's so I'm not sure what is in the truck now.

 

[scodefastback]

Thanks for the info. I should have explained the smoke more. The smoke is black, and it doesn't happen all that often. One scenario that makes it smoke is when I approach a slight grade and it doesn't down shift, so if I press the accelerator to force a downshift, it will really poor out the smoke. I always assumed that was too much fuel. I think it is lugging more than it should so that may be a different issue that I have not investigated yet. The other scenario is under a hard acceleration. I really have to work at making it smoke in this case, so there may not be a problem with smoke. It was worse before I had them go through the injectors, so maybe I'm over sensitive about the presence of the smoke. This is my first diesel, so I'm not experienced working on them. I think I have the dark blue CPS. I have tried different one's so I'm not sure what is in the truck now.

One other piece of information is I do have an adrenaline HPOP as well as the Riff Raff FRX

 

[klhansen]

Do you have a chip or performance program in the truck? The stock PCM programming is designed to limit fueling if boost is too low. But a program usually changes that, allowing more fuel for a specific boost point. I guess my point is, how is your turbo working? If it's dragging (contacting the housing) it could be "underboosting." Set up your AE to look at MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure - boost plus atmospheric pressure) when you're getting smoke on non-downshifting acceleration. It could also be a transmission issue with the delayed downshift.

 

[scodefastback]

Do you have a chip or performance program in the truck? The stock PCM programming is designed to limit fueling if boost is too low. But a program usually changes that, allowing more fuel for a specific boost point. I guess my point is, how is your turbo working? If it's dragging (contacting the housing) it could be "underboosting." Set up your AE to look at MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure - boost plus atmospheric pressure) when you're getting smoke on non-downshifting acceleration. It could also be a transmission issue with the delayed downshift.

I do have a hydra with jelibuilt tunes but returning to stock tune doesn't seem to help. The tunes are just economy and a tow tune. Nothing crazy. I rebuilt the turbo with a KC turbo balanced assembly. I also have a Banks waste gate actuator. I'll check the pressures as you suggested. I had planned on doing some diagnosis on the transmission but was trying to work out the rough idle first. Any other thoughts on the rough idle? I was about to try some new injectors but based on the test results that doesn't seem to be a good idea. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[bwst]

Very interested to see Kevin's suggestion of looking at MAP (and maybe EBP) during a normal drive and under acceleration, especially when you see smoke. That balanced assembly turbo rebuild should be easily taking care of smoke with stock injectors and a mild tune, but maybe you have some boost leaks or exhaust leaks that need fixing.

That rough idle is influenced by injector performance (should be good), fuel pressure (also good), and steady ICP (450-550psi seems like too much movement here). Often the ICP and/or IPR are responsible.

I'd recommend we take a close look at 30 seconds to 1 minute of ICP, IPR%, FUELPW, MFDES and RPM. ICP and MFDES should be pretty stable. Can you log those PIDs with AE and post here? I'll graph it and post that - we can look at what the PCM is commanding for IPR% and MFDES (mass fuel desired).

This is my truck's idle, after a warmed-up start:

Unplug the ICP, and repeat the same log of PIDs for a minute. Let's see if it gets more stable or stays about the same.

That ICP and IPR - where did you buy it? There have been fake motorcraft sensors sold from other-than-reputable sellers.

 

[scodefastback]

Thanks Jeff, I haven't had a chance to do any more data collection, but I will.