[nomadfamily]

I am considering a 2006 Econoline Chateau Wagon (6.0 PSD/Torqshift Automatic 5-Speed w O/D, 3.55 Differential, HD Tow Package, 8700# GVWR, 16,000# GCWR, 9300# Towing Capacity). It will be an occasional driver, but will do some duty towing within 10% of weight capacities through the Rockies. I have several questions:

1) How good are the factory numbers/capabilities in the real world (e.g. mountain towing in summer) without burning up drivetrain (engine to differential)?

2) Why is the 6.0 PSD de-rated to 235hp and 440ftlbs for the E-Series from 325hp and 570ftlbs in the F-Series?

3) Why no Tow/Haul Mode (only O/D On/Off) availability on the 6.0 PSD, but only on the 6.8 V10 in the E-Series?

4) The 4.10 Differential will buy a 4000# improvement in GCWR (16000# up to 20000#) and a 700# gain in Towing Capacity (9300# to 10000#). Is it worth it, and is it an easy modification (ring and pinion only, or a whole lot more)?

5) What would you do to improve performance (torque, horsepower, cooling) while towing, yet maintain driveability in regular use?

If you recommend modifications (mechanical and/or software), be aware that I don't desire to build the Space Shuttle, but just a greater margin of safety/performance/reliability/flexibilty for my needs. I am not a mechanic, so less invasive (both to my van and wallet) is always a plus. I like the flexibility of being able to change performance profiles from inside the cab, if a chip is the way to go.

I appreciate any and all opinions/advice/experience/perspectives on these matters. Thanks a million...

 

[Casey_1]

[ QUOTE ]
1) How good are the factory numbers/capabilities in the real world (e.g. mountain towing in summer) without burning up drivetrain (engine to differential)?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're not over on GCWR or GVWR you should be golden on temperatures.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Why is the 6.0 PSD de-rated to 235hp and 440ftlbs for the E-Series from 325hp and 570ftlbs in the F-Series?

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably because of the restricted air flow under the hood of the E series it won't cool at the higher power levels.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Why no Tow/Haul Mode (only O/D On/Off) availability on the 6.0 PSD, but only on the 6.8 V10 in the E-Series?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a good question. I'll bet nobody knows why. There isn't any mechanical reason, it probably was just somebody's decision to do that.

[ QUOTE ]
5) What would you do to improve performance (torque, horsepower, cooling) while towing, yet maintain driveability in regular use?

[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't do anything. I like reliability, and I feel it has enough performance to get the job done. There isn't any mod that you can do that will increase performance without comprimising reliability.

 

[racerman_27410]

I agree w/ Casey,

Mine tows just fine with the 3:55 gear and in stock form has more than enough power to pull my trailer in the mtns.

i think unless you were really towing heavy most of the time the van is being used the 3:55 is going to make up for its towing weakness (as compared to the 4:10 ratio) in fuel mileage.

derated hp to me means longer lasting engine... there really isnt enough room for a mouse to fart under the hood of one of these so a lack of cooling airflow could be a big reason not to boost the power with aftermarket chips and tuners.
we are actually running the power level/tuning that International designed the 6.0 to run and it even de rated it still totally blows away my old E350 5.4L in both performance and economy.

Frank

 

[stackedpsd99]

[ QUOTE ]
there really isnt enough room for a mouse to fart under the hood

[/ QUOTE ]
When I heard that... I friggin lost it...hahahaha

 

[1olddog2]

[ QUOTE ]
I am considering a 2006 Econoline Chateau Wagon (6.0 PSD/Torqshift Automatic 5-Speed w O/D, 3.55 Differential, HD Tow Package, 8700# GVWR, 16,000# GCWR, 9300# Towing Capacity). It will be an occasional driver, but will do some duty towing within 10% of weight capacities through the Rockies. I have several questions:

1) How good are the factory numbers/capabilities in the real world (e.g. mountain towing in summer) without burning up drivetrain (engine to differential)?

2) Why is the 6.0 PSD de-rated to 235hp and 440ftlbs for the E-Series from 325hp and 570ftlbs in the F-Series?

3) Why no Tow/Haul Mode (only O/D On/Off) availability on the 6.0 PSD, but only on the 6.8 V10 in the E-Series?

4) The 4.10 Differential will buy a 4000# improvement in GCWR (16000# up to 20000#) and a 700# gain in Towing Capacity (9300# to 10000#). Is it worth it, and is it an easy modification (ring and pinion only, or a whole lot more)?

5) What would you do to improve performance (torque, horsepower, cooling) while towing, yet maintain driveability in regular use?

If you recommend modifications (mechanical and/or software), be aware that I don't desire to build the Space Shuttle, but just a greater margin of safety/performance/reliability/flexibilty for my needs. I am not a mechanic, so less invasive (both to my van and wallet) is always a plus. I like the flexibility of being able to change performance profiles from inside the cab, if a chip is the way to go.

I appreciate any and all opinions/advice/experience/perspectives on these matters. Thanks a million...

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[1olddog2]

#2 no inter cooler, no room

 

[carringb]

[ QUOTE ]
#2 no inter cooler, no room

[/ QUOTE ]

6.0 powerstroke vans do have an intercooler.

Question 4 - Yes, the only difference is the ring and pinion gear. It's not too hard - for an axle shop - but isn't cheap either due to the size of the gears (at least on the extended wagons with full floater - shorty vans are probably cheaper)

 

[hapaschold]

i wonder if the van lacking tow/haul has anything to do with heat build up also under the hood during tow/haul operation. downshifts-higher rpms- more heat ???

i believe thou, sometime during early 06, the diesel option was made not available on club wagons, not sure about chateau version.

reliability ? like mine, until turbo fiasco, but that more of a dealer problem than the van i realizing.

 

[nomadfamily]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Does anyone know HOW they de-rate the 6.0 PSD engines for the E-Series? Is it just a matter of software, i.e. programming the fuel flow, boost, etc.? Or is there a physical difference in the engine itself from the F-Series trucks. I believe that there is indeed an intercooler in the de-rated version, but is it identical to the truck counterpart?

 

[carringb]

The intercooler and downpipe is smaller, but I think it's primariy a software difference. The motor, including turbo, is identical to the truck version.

 

[msnunes]

[ QUOTE ]
The intercooler and downpipe is smaller, but I think it's primariy a software difference. The motor, including turbo, is identical to the truck version.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be shocked at how much difference software makes... I am, still! (But also thrilled now that mine is better.)

 

[DarthSurplus]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Why is the 6.0 PSD de-rated to 235hp and 440ftlbs for the E-Series from 325hp and 570ftlbs in the F-Series?

[/ QUOTE ] You haven't driven one, have you? Those numbers on paper are meaningless until you actually feel those 440 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm instead of 5500. The powertrain combination of the van 6.0 and the Torqshift will surprise you both with quickness and towing prowess. But the answer to your question is that the Econoline van is primarily a commercial vehicle. The powertrain is detuned via PCM programming to increase its odds of providing a 500,000 mile useful life.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Why no Tow/Haul Mode (only O/D On/Off) availability on the 6.0 PSD, but only on the 6.8 V10 in the E-Series?

[/ QUOTE ] It's either F*rd and their better ideas, or its the incredible variable vane turbocharger. I haven't decided.

I'm not sure that this feature is truly needed for takeoff on a vehicle with a torque curve like the 6.0 has. The Torqshift is adaptive, and will quickly shift how you need it to. Diesels lack a throttle plate, so without an aftermarket exhaust brake the downshift feature wouldn't provide the braking effort you might reasonably expect. I'm not sure if the 6.0's VVT is compatible with aftermarket exhaust brakes.

[ QUOTE ]
4) The 4.10 Differential will buy a 4000# improvement in GCWR (16000# up to 20000#) and a 700# gain in Towing Capacity (9300# to 10000#). Is it worth it, and is it an easy modification (ring and pinion only, or a whole lot more)?

[/ QUOTE ] Just get the 3.55 gears. You don't want to pay all year, every year, in reduced unloaded fuel economy just for 3 or 4 trips through the mountains. The aftermarket overdrives won't fit the Torqshift. If you've really got that much weight to tow, you might consider a conversion stretch F350 that seats 9 and will pull a 5er.

[ QUOTE ]
5) What would you do to improve performance (torque, horsepower, cooling) while towing, yet maintain driveability in regular use?

[/ QUOTE ] Change the exhaust, or at least replace the muffler. Install gauges. If you really want more torque, go for the 4.10 gears. Fix it so it doesn't eat its own poop. Auxiliary transmission coolers will hinder you for most things on these. Cooling is limited by the amount of air that can be forced to flow through the front grille. It doesn't flow as freely because the engine compartment is jam-cram-packed full. The airbox doesn't feed very well, and I've had some thoughts about how to improve it, but any step away from OEM in this department would be a drastic one. You don't want to add fuel via programming, due to the potential to generate more heat than you can deal with, and because the 6.0 has proven to be frail when pushed. F*rd's engineers are onto the 6.0 hot rod crowd, and you stand a pretty good chance of eating your blown engine if you've souped it up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/vomit.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

 

[Casey_1]

[ QUOTE ]
Diesels lack a throttle plate, so without an aftermarket exhaust brake the downshift feature wouldn't provide the braking effort you might reasonably expect.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then how does the downshift feature work so well on the F series diesel?

Answer: The variable vane turbo closes off most of the exhaust when the trans is in the braking mode. It would work exactly the same in the E series if Ford put Tow/Haul in the vans. There is no mecahnical reason why not, the engine and trans hardware are identical. It was just someone in charge decided it wasn't needed in the vans.

 

[DarthSurplus]

Interesting. That's a good way to do it, and you are probably correct. It wouldn't work quite as well on a 7.3, though, would it? My exposure to Tow/Haul has been limited to Chevrolets and GMCs that I have ridden in. The 8.1 gasser has far more braking effort upon downshift than the Duramax does. Does the Duramax have a VVT?

 

[Casey_1]

I don't know about the Duramax.

I have driven quite a few trailering miles with F series trucks towing through the mountains. The braking feature is AWESOME in a stock truck.

You can get the same effect in the E series, all you need to do is cancel overdrive, or move the shifter to 2 or to 1. That will do the same thing as Tow/Haul, just not automatically. Not the best way, but sometimes you have to work with what you have.

 

[carringb]

I'll bet the OD instead of Tow/Haul has more to do with costomers than anything. Very very few E-series diesls are used for towing large trailer, but tons of them are used for busses. Bus drivers love to manually select their top gear to help control their speed around town.

The V10 on the other hand, is used for RVs and for towing behind passenger wagons, and seldom for busses, so tow/haul makes sense for that motor.

 

[DarthSurplus]

[thinking out loud with dream-sequence harp music in background] I wonder if Jody at DP Tuner could reprogram the 6.0 van PCM with the V10 van Tow/Haul transmission program, thereby effectively changing the OD-off button into a Tow/Haul button?

[/hallucination]

 

[carringb]

Does anyone have a 6.0 wiring diagram?

Maybe there's an open input on a wiring harness somewhere or on the PCM that could be used for tow/haul (kind of like the open inputs for 4x4 low, or PTO, or tke output for a tach).

 

[DarthSurplus]

Merely tapping into the appropriate F-series pin with a pushbutton will not alone cut it, if the software isn't there to support it. I sent Jody an email asking him to pitch in on this thread. Since I am now one of his customers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif (that's right, I did it, and you read it here first!), you would think he might have helped us out with this one. Perhaps he's doing a little 'research?' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif