[DoubleOTexan]

My 2011 F-350 6.7L put a rod through the oil pan at 148K miles, and I'm exasperated about what to do! Although I bought this truck used with 70K on it, I've been diligent about the maintenance on it. Knowing that the engine was "just getting broke in", I thought I'd be good without major issues till at least 200K.

I've been reading that this year model has a history of issues with the glow plugs and exhaust valves causing catastrophic failures such as this, but I'm appalled, as well as everyone I've talked to, that Ford doesn't acknowledge there is an issue. A number of folks have now said they will avoid this engine because of this.

Is there any recourse I have with Ford? .....any program out there to at least help defray some of the cost? I'm looking at having to take a $15K hickey and am beside myself.

 

[DoubleOTexan]

Since I just joined, I can't send PMs to non-admin people......but I was HOPING that Crystal (or other designated Ford Rep) would answer.

Otherwise, I'm looking at replacing the whole engine for $12,000, plus another $2000 at an independent shop. One dealership told me it would be a 2014 engine. Does anyone know of any leftover issues in that year model engine? I certainly don't want to replace one lemon engine with another.

 

[RT]

I PM'd her for you. Here's her big chance to show how well Ford will stand behind their product! Looking forward to the outcome.


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[Maryland dieselnick]

Since I just joined, I can't send PMs to non-admin people......but I was HOPING that Crystal (or other designated Ford Rep) would answer.

Otherwise, I'm looking at replacing the whole engine for $12,000, plus another $2000 at an independent shop. One dealership told me it would be a 2014 engine. Does anyone know of any leftover issues in that year model engine? I certainly don't want to replace one lemon engine with another.

Sorry about your situation. Give Crystal a chance to get yourself some help.

 

[FordService]

Since I just joined, I can't send PMs to non-admin people......but I was HOPING that Crystal (or other designated Ford Rep) would answer...

Welcome to the community, DoubleOTexan!

My name is Tricia, and I’m one of the U.S. Ford Customer Service Representatives on this forum. I recommend contacting your dealer again. Your dealer can look up any TSBs, recalls, or customer satisfaction programs that may apply to your vehicle. Also, be sure to speak with the service manager, as he will be able to provide available options and/or coverage for any work needed.

Lastly, any repair done at a Ford Dealer comes with a 24 month/unlimited miles warranty. You can schedule an appointment online, here.

I PM'd her for you. Here's her big chance to show how well Ford will stand behind their product! Looking forward to the outcome.

Thanks for reaching out to us, RT.

I replied to your PM, and have a great day! :grin2:

Tricia

 

[larrgh]

Welcome Tricia!!!! Happy to have your services here to assist us with possible problems with our trucks.

 

[clev]

I feel the pain of a major repair, but good grief; I get tired of political correctness. DoubleO buys a 6 year old truck, second hand, with 70k miles on it, he uses it for another 78k miles, breaks it with 148k on it, and then he expects Ford to do something about it????? I'm not understanding. Is there some type of warranty for second hand buyers that I'm not aware of? And then Tricia comes on and tap dances; this is the political correct part. Instead of just posting that "Your are SOL", she says to go to your dealer, check TSB's, review available options, and oh, don't forget, Ford repairs have a 24 month warranty. Why not just say, "hey, you purchased a 6 year old used truck; go fix it".

 

[COBRAJET]

I don't get it either. What is Ford supposed to do with an engine with 150K on it. It's not under warranty. The situation is certainly not a good one..but it's not a Ford issue to fix.

 

[gearhead1011]

On one hand I can see the OPs frustration. You have a vehicle that has a known issue that you likely have just experienced and you're going to have to pay dearly for it. You would hope there would be some help from Ford. On the other hand the vehicle is well past it's warranty on both time and mileage and you bought it used. With warranties you have to draw the line somewhere otherwise you will be offering warranty repairs on a vehicle that's 15 years old with 400,000 miles on it.

For the record there is not a glow plug issue with the early builds, that was misinformation based on a procedure for finding catastrophic failure but there is a valve issue that can cause the kind of damage you have.

To answer the original question, as far as I know there is no program from Ford to help defray the cost of this failure. i'm sure that's why Trisha made the suggestions that she did. If the estimate is outside of your budget you can always look into a used engine and compare cost of having the repairs made at reputable independent shop. Of course if you go the used engine route make sure that it's from a 2012 or newer truck.

 

[RT]

I understand everyone as to the truck being out of warranty. But- we're not talking about a water pump or a sensor going out. We're talking catastrophic failure of a part that should never fail under normal operating conditions. If I built you a house and gave you a five year warranty and a 30 year note and on year 6 the rafters all split in the middle and the house caved in and collapsed, would you expect the builder to step in and say, "hey, that shouldn't have ever happened."


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[DoubleOTexan]

I certainly understand that a) I bought a THREE year old Ford Certified Used vehicle with 70K miles on it, and I understand that b) it is now out of warranty.

BUT, the entire reason I was ok with buying a vehicle with that many miles on it was because it was a diesel engine that SHOULD not have any MAJOR issues until after 200K miles after all of the longevity and durability claims by Ford.

Now, researching similar engine failures on the same year model revealed that this isn't an isolated event.....rare, yes, but not isolated. That is why I am majorly disappointed. Ford was aware that there was the possibility of this batch of engines having an issue, and instead of getting in front of it, I feel that they just swept it under the rug.

I have had numerous Ford vehicles since turning 18, and I have always been a proponent/advocate since I have never had anything MAJOR go wrong with the engines. I always upgraded vehicles as the NEED arose for more features/power/room, and I'm finally at the level I always wanted to be.

With this being my first diesel engine (not first Super Duty), I was meticulous with the maintenance, knowing that it was getting up in miles and unsure just how much maintenance could be pushed.

Basically, I did everything Ford said I needed to do, and yet I sit here with a busted engine that THEY said has longer life/durability than I'm currently at. THAT is why I am flabbergasted. I don't expect the whole thing to be covered, as I will be coming out better in the long run (if it is indeed a 2014 engine being put in), but a little assistance would go a LONG way with me and those that now want to avoid these trucks because of my situation.

-Jonathan

 

[DoubleOTexan]

Welcome to the community, DoubleOTexan!

My name is Tricia, and I’m one of the U.S. Ford Customer Service Representatives on this forum. I recommend contacting your dealer again. Your dealer can look up any TSBs, recalls, or customer satisfaction programs that may apply to your vehicle. Also, be sure to speak with the service manager, as he will be able to provide available options and/or coverage for any work needed.

Lastly, any repair done at a Ford Dealer comes with a 24 month/unlimited miles warranty. You can schedule an appointment online, owner.ford.com/maintenance.html here.
...
Tricia

Tricia: I have one dealer wanting MSRP for a rebuilt engine, and another not wanting to honor their advertised price on FordParts.com. So no, the dealers I have talked to have NO interest in helping me. Even trading it in results in a huge loss - the best deal offered was $5-8K (sight unseen) on a vehicle that NADAs and resales all over the place for $28-32K......so even the dealers don't want this year model.

I'm hoping that Ford has some sort of program that can be referenced that would encourage the dealer to offer a) parts at cost or significant discount, and/or b) discounted shop labor rate.

Everyone that knows my situation is telling me to blast this issue all over the place to put pressure on Ford. I don't want to do that, but I do feel this was a known issue that was swept under the rug.

-Jonathan

 

[COBRAJET]

Out of curiosity I spent about 30 minutes looking around the internet for replacement engines. There are a lot of options out there for both rebuilt long blocks and used engines. There are about 10-12 on Ebay right now in the 6K-8.5K range which come with free shipping and a warranty. These are complete motors top to bottom. Some have make offer deals on them. Locally, I could find low mileage 6.7's in the 6-8K range. One was a 2016 with 9K miles on it for 8K. I would guess another grand to get them swapped….unless the cab has to come off like they do on some years. You would be left with an engine with perhaps a few parts to sell…or maybe be able to swap it for the labor. Maybe your local dealer would swap it out for a reasonable price. If you could find one with under 50K that wouldn't be too bad of a hit if you keep it for a while. It would be interesting to find out how new of model engine you could put in the truck without a lot more computer work..if any.

 

[DoubleOTexan]

CobraJet:

Yes, I have looked all through the internet at what my options are. Through not being sure on compatibility between year models, sight unseen condition, and questionable core charge policies, I felt it best to go through Fordparts.com with their no-fault core exchange. I found a full remanufactured engine for $11,200+Tax, but I'd have to drive 2400 miles to pick it up, install, and return the core.

I found an independent diesel shop that quoted $80/hr, which is about 2/3 what two different dealers wanted for the install.

My 2 local dealers both had no interest in offering any discount or assistance, even though I have (almost) always bought from one and had service done at the other.

I'd be happy to get parts locally at cost, and pay a discounted shop rate. I'd call that a happy compromise between me being out of warranty and them standing behind their product.

 

[Jimbo40]

Devils advocate here;
First off, 70K is not just broke in. 1500-3000 miles and ready for hard work.
Second owner; Meticulous maintenance will not repair abuse first owner may have done, who knows the answer to that, Ford?????
Just because you where meticulous with maintenance does not mean that you did not beat the crap out of it in between, see even though these are strong trucks that doesn't mean they cannot be beaten.

My bulldozer and excavators are super tough but if the operator tells them to do something, they will do it even if it destroys them no matter how much grease I give them.
So ford should just assume that you and the last owner where the greatest people and the full failure is there fault? and now give you parts at cost and reduced repair labor.

Stuff breaks man, its mechanical. Ford Says we know our stuff is tough so we will repair for free everything you can throw at it for 100,000 thousand miles. thats several trips around the world, and if you do it at full throttle ford will still fix it. but at 1 mile over the cost is yours. I think that's pretty fair don't you? If you blew it at 99,999 miles ford would have put a new motor in it all expenses paid.

This is not a flame at you, it's a flame at your thought process. Ford owes you nothing at 150K. I am sorry for your loss, it would be a hardship for me too. but its not fords fault, its yours for not buying a truck with a 300,000 mile warranty! what? they don't exist? but why?

I rest my case.

 

[RT]

Well, Jimbo - let me flame your thought process a bit. There are some parts that just should never break. Never. We're not talking about wear parts or even extended wear parts. If your frame broke in half 13 months after purchase, would you consider that "par for the course"? Did you read my example above about if your house caved in one month after the 5 year warranty because all the joists gave way? A rod snapping (outside of a user caused hydrolock or a rod bearing seizing due to no oil) is not a wear part or a part that ever should break. I've got rods from 60+ years ago singing along in engines that have been rebuilt multiple times. At some point (2001 to be exact) - Ford decided they could save 2 cents per rod going from forged rods to powdered metal rods. PMRs don't bend, they snap. Ford knows that.

Diesel's traditionally have a 350,000-500,000 mile life expectancy between rebuilds. Many earlier engines would go a million miles between rebuilds. That's why we say, partly in jest, that 70,000 is just getting broken in good.

Now - I understand the warranty argument. The other side of the coin is - sometimes it just is good business sense and the right thing to do and step up to the plate and say, "that just shouldn't have happened". We'll take care of it. So sorry for your trouble. NOT- "HA HA - you're screwed. Pay up full price and please consider us for your next vehicle purchase...."

 

[Jimbo40]

RT, I certainly Do understand, And clearly. Especially Connecting Rod, Crank type thing as your was. and you were kind in your response to me.
If they where so kind as to do that for you it would lead them down a very slippery slope though, as they would now be paying for many things along those lines.
How do you know the last owner didn't get stranded on a job site, and ran over to the nearest bulldozer, grabbed a can of Ether and gave it a few shots causing an internal fracture that would present itself 70k later through your oil pan? How do you know? Maybe his Kid did it while borrowing his truck. Does Ford know? That is a very likely scenario, equally as possible as just 1 out of 8 Rods failing for no reason.

I'll have a perfectly new, good, 5000 psi hydraulic line fail on an excavator just loading truck easily, the operator was doing nothing stressful. Was the line cheap? Bad line? junk from the factory. Should they make me a line for free? I could try to made that claim except, the last job the operator was wedging huge 10,000 pound tree stumps from a forest and the function was directly related to that line. he way over stressed the braids in that line on the last job, and it went south on me doing much of nothing, why should someone else pay?

If you bought band new and you knew that none of this stuff happened that's one thing , but your truck had a life before you, and just like your 16 year old kid you really have no truth about what may or may not have gone on while you were not there, yet you do not hesitate to ask ford to take accountability.

We all win and lose sometimes, its a good and a sad part of life, and I truly feel sad for you at this point, I believe you are Innocent of any part of this failure. But that does not make the deepest pockets accountable.

Because of the stress some of the guys put there trucks through I decided to buy New because there is no way to tell is someone used Starting fluid on it, or used it to drag race his buddies, Doing Power stands or just treating it badly leaving me to pay the future cost for his abuse. Ford has noooooo way of knowing. One of my workers has a beautiful Super duty. Hes rolling coal every single chance he gets never saw such abuse, same one who messed up the hydraulic line. And he will never even drive my truck on the job site.
Like I said just being the devils advocate.

 

[Painted Horse]

I sold my 2011 truck two years ago with 145,000 miles on it. Because of the mileage, I only got $26,000 ( a private buyer not a trade in). I checked around, I could have bought a dozen or more trucks with that kind of mileage for that price. So I got a fair price for the mileage. Part of that was mileage and part was the the rumors of valve problems on early 2011 engines scaring potential buyers. I suspect you got a better price on your truck ( or you should have) because it was an early model 2011 and those rumors.

Nobody likes to have to pay money to fix stuff. And we all feel picked on when it happens to us. And it always seems to hit the guy who can least afford it. But I can't fault Ford for not covering a warranty that is 50,000 past. You got 150,000 and another man got got 600,000 miles out of his truck. As a whole we average 250,000 - 300,000 miles engine life. Which falls into the forcasted life.

Modern pickup diesel engines are not built like a Mack truck engine. Modern pickup diesel engines run at 3400+ rpm redlines and not the 1800 rpms you see in the semis going down the hiway. That extra horsepower and peppyness comes at cost of engine life. I don't think people can still say diesel should last forever.

Best of luck on getting it repaired. sorry that it is painful.

 

[twdiesel]

You Ford owners rarely post OAs, most of the failures (catastrophic ) I read on this Forum likely would of showed up OAs with establish trends. thus giving some sign of contaminates or wear.

If I read that the owner was diligent in OAs and maintenance trends and the power plant fails, its SOL, but coming stating premature failure W/O OAs and blaming Ford W/O that vital piece of evidence has NO value. Here's My ED Ecodiesel that has a history of QC problem with rotating mass failures. As You can see this engine shows no sign of failure.

As you can see the 6.7 Ram had high copper on it 1st OA that now it has leveled off, If the copper continue to raise I would have replace the oil cooler.

I don't own Fords but I do fix them... Mods I'm not here advertising ,Just trying to help.

Sorry OP Ford has NO liability in this matter. I do see your point thou.

 

[DoubleOTexan]

I agree with most of what everyone has said here. I bought a Ford Certified used truck with 70K miles, yes. Do I know how it was treated before the dealer got it? No. Did I take solace in knowing it was "Ford Certified Used"? Yes. Was I aware of the exhaust valve issue before purchasing? No. Did I pay a price that reflected the rumored issues? Likely not. Is it bad luck at a bad time? Absolutely.

Where I'm coming from, though, is talking to numerous long time diesel owners (of all brands) that are dismayed I'm even talking about having a failure of this magnitude to begin with. Then they hear that Ford "knows" about the likely cause, and has done nothing about it, and they become appalled.

In hindsight, would $30-ish dollars per oil change to have an OA done have been worth avoiding replacing the engine at my cost? Absolutely. But it's not something that is considered to be part of the PM protocol when you a) pay a premium for the engine, b) pay a premium for the fuel, and c) pay a premium for the PM. All that "Premium", in this case, is supposed to give you a bit of reassurance that the thing is durable and shouldn't have to be babied. I had no reason to think it was necessary, or even that beneficial.....until now.

Most of the 75K miles I put on were unloaded highway miles, with a decent chunk of oilfield lease roads, that I did not run like a bat out of hell. You would have thought that if the previous owner caused any of this, there would have been some indicators that issues were imminent.



I'm going to have to replace the engine, keep the truck for a few extra years to pay down the note so I'm not upside down, and look at moving on. I'm not saying that Ford is out of the running on my next truck, but I can say that they are no longer the de-facto choice.