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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last time my 2003 6.0 ran it started cutting out about1 mile from home on my way to
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work. Low power, little pedal response. It was almost a year ago and I am finally getting to work on my vehicle. I don't recall a lot of the details but as best I can remember it went like this.
I moved from the driveway and in front of my shop that was the last time it ran. I put it on my scanner and it didn't seem to be making enough oil pressure to start, I can't recall the number so I pulled the IPR and found it had a hole in the screen. Installed a new screen and turned it over. No start, removed the IPR and found what appeared to be some sort of elastomeric material on the screen.
That was last November sometime. This week I cleaned up the top of the engine and removed everything to get to the oil cooler and found a lot of material and part of some sort of black maybe silicone gasket. I see that the last person to replace the oil cooler Installed a Dorman part. I just want to know if anyone has seen this much material in the oil cooler sump. I don't understand how it even ran at all unless this was a very rapid failure and it happened all the sudden.
So, I have a few questions.

1- what is the likely source of this material

2- what do I do to flush the system to remove all of the contamination.

3- what parts do I need to be concerned with needing replaced. Obviously it would be simple to say to just replace everything in the high pressure oil system but that is not necessarily in my budget.

4- I have already purchased the parts for replacement of the oil cooler, ford parts. I purchased the truck with 188 k and it currently has 250 k . I had back flushed the oil cooler after I first purchased it and was planning on replacing it any way. Any other items that should go along with the oil cooler? The egr had failed on the prior owner and it was welded according to what I was told but looking at it it appears that it just has caps at either end.
 

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That mess is from a cheap oil cooler with the cheap soft goods (gaskets and o-rings) degrading.

I can't imagine that this mess didn't show up on the oil cooler. Anyway, the ENTIRE system feeding the HPOP needs to be cleaned. That means ALSO flushing the line from the oil cooler sump to the HPOP.

Since it is an 03, I would just plan on replacing the HPOP. IMO you will have yours fail at some point in the near future from starved suction flow, sludge, and maybe excessive heat. The only 03-04 HPOPs worth buying are the ones from DieselSite or CNCFab.

You may also need to clean out the high pressure system AFTER the HPOP - branch tubes and oil rails. Any of that crud that gets through to the injectors will ruin the injector spool valve operation.

BTW - a failed screen on the IPR valve will not cause problems, so simply replacing a broken IPR screen will not fix anything. When the screen is damaged, it was damaged by foreign materials (contamination) blocking the screen and the pressure will then push the materials through the screen. When this happens, the foreign materials can cause the IPR valve to stick and not operate correctly. This is what causes problems, the screen itself has nothing to do with it.....the IPR valve is just a dump valve.

I am surprised that you didn't get any oil into the coolant system!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for your reply. I will look into the hpop that you recommended. I will be removing the from the housing tonight. I wrench a lot on just about anything and have a good customer base, but I am not very experienced with diesel engines. Your insight is greatly appreciated.
Do you have a preference for which hpop? It seems that the dieselsite unit has a better warranty. Thanks again!
 

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I have seen a lot of problems on many brands of the early (03-04) remanufactured HPOPs, even the OEM ones.

DieselSite HPOP would be my first choice, but the one from CNCFab is good also. I have only seen one thread about a bad DieselSite HPOP in a BUNCH of years and I watch all the 6.0L forums.

You may not need a new HPOP, but starving them for oil is hard on them and it is possible that the trash on the oil cooler sump screen could have caused significantly reduced oil flow. I hate going in to these engines that deep .... not because it is hard, but because my fingers don't work as well as they used to. Mainly the issue is the potential of dropping things into the engine. Also, I really like to nail all of the identified "weak areas" on these 6.0's and those early HPOPs are definitely a weak point.
 

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BTW - a failed screen on the IPR valve will not cause problems, so simply replacing a broken IPR screen will not fix anything. When the screen is damaged, it was damaged by foreign materials (contamination) blocking the screen and the pressure will then push the materials through the screen. When this happens, the foreign materials can cause the IPR valve to stick and not operate correctly. This is what causes problems, the screen itself has nothing to do with it.....the IPR valve is just a dump valve.
bismic, I agree with you on the IPR being a dump valve. However, I have had 3 known occasions that I have had a no start situation (low ICP Pressure at 84% IRP) and found the IPR screen to have been breached. Replaced the screen and instantly got 500+ psi and engine fired off.

Like this poster, on one occasion that foreign material was oil cooler gasket material from a recent oil cooler replacement. Owner was not very religious about keeping the workspace clean. I found the damaged IPR screen and with that little replacement, engine has been fine for 2 years.

I am not sure of that was a fluke, but I know the screen is to keep contaminants out of the valve, but it has something to do with holding a certain amount of oil in the system as well.

Just my expereince.


OP, you just asked about which HPOP. I have used 2 remanded units from Pensacola Diesel. They have been very good for me, very good service from this company and last I checked, a good price. They even wait 30 days to charge a core charge, o give you opportunity to get the core back to them without having to pay the fee.

I have been using them for Injectors and HPOPs for over 10 years.
 

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It is just coincidence then. The oil doesn't even flow through the IPR valve until the ICP pressure is higher than what is called for by the PCM. Replacing the screen will in no way assist the oil pressure (high pressure system) to increase.
 

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As far as Pensacola goes, I have to strongly disagree.

Lots of threads on various diesel forums about their injectors being bad out of the box.

Also, I just helped a guy in February that installed one of their HPOPs and it was bad out of the box. Took a while to nail that down, but a new HPOP solved his problem.

One example:

There are many more similar threads that will come up when searching.
 

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As far as Pensacola goes, I have to strongly disagree.

Lots of threads on various diesel forums about their injectors being bad out of the box.

Also, I just helped a guy in February that installed one of their HPOPs and it was bad out of the box. Took a while to nail that down, but a new HPOP solved his problem.

One example:

There are many more similar threads that will come up when searching.
Interesting.... I will say that I have had 2 occasions of a bad injector out of the box. That was on a set of 8. For me, not that big of a deal in that I have 4 trucks actively on the road, so I always have injectors. And, I have no customer service issues when calling for replacements. I usually get them next day, but I am in South Georgia and they in Pensacola Florida, so a quick shipping trip. I have also noticed that they have added an extra level of injectors (cheaper line) and you can tell the difference as the packaging is not as good. Not sure of the difference, but out of about 50+ injectors I have gotten from them, I have had 2 bad out of the box. One had a bad coil and the other the spool valve stuck. I have one other occasion where I replaced an entire set and 51 weeks later a coil went bad. They honored the one year warranty with no question.

As for the HPOP, I have used 3 rebuilt pump and no issues.

Certainly not disagreeing with your experience of of others that have posted, but I have had good luck and really good response so far.

Of course, other then buying OEM, is seems everyone has issues with injector suppliers. I have heard horror stories from Warren Injectors, Sinister, and about every other supplier. I have been told that no one is manufacturing NEW 6.0 injectors anymore and that all injectors are rebuilt or remanufactured, however you want to define the process. So, I am not sure who the absolute best and most reliable supplier actually is anymore.
 

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Thanks. I will check them out. I am not sure I have ever heard of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So many months have passed and I finally got everything back together. New hpop, I flushed the entire high pressure oil system with hydraulic fluid and blew everything out. Installed a new oil cooler and all the various orings. New engine harness, new injector harness, newbatteries. Dropped the pan and found no signs of contamination other than a rather thick layer of sludge at the bottom of the pan. Back flushed the coolant system from the oil cooler. My autel shows the high pressure oil is coming up to around 1400 IIRC and that is what it was looking for while cranking. The percentage on the pressure regulation starts around 83 percent and drops to around 40 something with the pressure at the above values. It seems like it takes a while to build up the pressure so I am not sure if maybe I have a high pressure oil leak. I think that I installed an air fitting after the logs and hpop were installed and didn't hear a leak. Pressure seems to drop off pretty quickly after cranking and I am not sure if that is normal or not.
I currently have a crank position code and am going to pick up a new one at the local oreillys.
I would prefer a ford sensor but I don't want to wait for it so I will install this one and see if it can get it running. I do have a couple of questions regarding my observations today.

1 Does the high pressure oil drop pressure quickly after cranking?

2 After the system is primed how long should it take to make pressure?

3 I have been using the starter wire to the battery with the key on for my testing. The quick disconnect is broken. I have looked everywhere for a replacement. Does anyone know the part number for the quick disconnect?

4 I plan to replace my battery connectors with military style connectors. Does anyone have a good source for the bulk cable. I see lots of kits for $300- $400 but I already have a good crimper and 2/0 lugs so I feel that I can save a couple dollars building my own.
 

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The crank sensor code is LIKELY to be from excessive cranks. Installing a cheap aftermarket sensor has been known to cause problems, so you may be introducing a new failure point. That can complicate things.

You need to watch ICP sensor VOLTS. That will give you a true ICP reading. Post the volts you see when cranking.

The high pressure oil pressure will drop fairly quickly after cranking.

How long it takes to get the air out depends a lot on how you primed the system.

If the pressure is actually above 500 psi, then you have enough pressure for it to start. You might still have some air in the system, but at worst it will run rough after it starts. It might cause the engine to die once or twice until it stays running, but that should be it ....... until you can get the engine up to speed and do a few spirited accelerations.
 

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Oh, and if you are seeing a reasonable rpm reading while cranking, your crank sensor is probably good.

You need a minimum of 100 rpm for everything to sync, but you need approximately 150 rpm to functionally start.

What cranking speed do you see?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for your reply. I will check everything tomorrow and get back to you. That makes sense on general the cps because it didn't show up until the end. I don't recall the rpm but I think it was close to 140 something. Will check and get back to you
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My crank rpms were only in the 140's so I ordered a new ford positive battery harness and installed it. Still the same. The rpms will briefly hit 170-180 but then drop off to around 140 something again. The hpop oil pressure comes up pretty fast. I have ran the injector test with my autel and it immediately gives a message that no problems are detected. Then it starts firing the injectors. First a couple single clicks then multiple clicks. I only seem to hear it go through 3 injector cycles through and then stops. Thoughts?
 

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You need 150 rpms to start.

You have battery issues or maybe a starter issue.

Start with charging and individually load testing each battery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I installed new batteries, I was able to get it to hit a couple times with starting fluid but I think my stater is done. It won't crank now. What is your experience with aftermarket starters in these trucks. I would prefer a ford stater but that will take another week.
 

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The Ford 6.4L starter is the best thing to install. Does anyone have that in stock? It just bolts on like the original 6.0L one does.
 

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Part #7C3Z-11002-A

13 mm socket & 13 mm wrench, 15 mm (battery cable nut) socket, and 10 mm socket (solenoid wire).

First disconnect batteries, Then remove wiring nuts at the starter.

Top (13 mm head size) bolt (M8x 1.25) is awkward.
For that bolt, use a 3/8 inch 6pt deepwell socket w/ 6 inch extension and a flexhead ratchet.
 
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