[cowdoc]

Hey all, been awhile-

Last evening after driving all day as usual, made one last stop (1/2) hour, left the barn and jumped in truck to go home- engine cranks mightily but won't start - arggh! Tried it a few more times and finally out of desperation just let her crank for like 30 seconds (thankfully healthy Diehard Gold batteries) and it started quietly and then ran fine. Took her home, no problems with power. Shut her down for about two hours- got another call and jumped in-crossed myself- and no start - arggh! Tried repeatedly to no avail. Threw my stuff in wife's minivan and did my call. Embarassing, but anyway...

This morning still no luck when trying to start it. Cranks nicely. Talked to my gearhead (very nice guy) neighbor he tells me to spray starter fluid on air filter (I have K&N modified air system) and jump in quick and start it. Well, it WORKS! Engine cranks over a few seconds and fires up, quietly at first but then runs fine. He tells me to shut it down and try to start it right away.--- I do this and she cranks but no start.

Put more starter fluid on air filter and she starts again.

Thoughts about what may be going on? Anyone else see same problem? Electrical?/fuse?/bad pump?

Thanks much. She is running now as I have run out of starter fluid and will need it to run all day I guess until I can get it to dealer (only if I have to)...

Thanks guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Lowell (cowdoc) Wickman
New London, WI

 

[GregH]

Please see the thread below about the engine not starting when it is warm.

The high pressure fitting can blow out to the point where the engine will not start at all - warm or cold.

But running the engine on starting fluid will spin the high pressure pump fast enough to overcome some more severe leaks. Be aware that starting fluid is a stopgap measure, and the truck needs to be repaired soon...

Also, glow plugs and starting fluid don't mix well. Please be careful with it...

 

[diesel_doctor]

Leave out the part about the starting fluid when you call your dealer. They might not care for the idea and if you do this too much your motor won't like it much either.

 

[OMCUSNR]

[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts about what may be going on? Anyone else see same problem? Electrical?/fuse?/bad pump?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your High Pressure Oil Pump (HPOP) is going (gone) bad. Needs to go to dealer. Do not use "starter fluid" on a diesel. BAD things happen. Also you may want to rethink the K&N if you value the turbo.

 

[cowdoc]

Thanks for the ideas all.

It is in the shop presently and they are stumped. They have come to the conclusion that the engine is not sensing oil pressure and apparently oil pressure is what opens the injectors to give er fuel.
Is this the HPOP? I will look at other posts to explain the HPOP.

If it is the HPOP, is this a difficult fix? Am I looking at more than this afternoon, days?

It is out of my hands, didn't run any more starter fluid in today, I hope no damage done, except they know at the dealership- as a diagnostician myself, I NEED to know as much as possible about treatments given by owners, to help me diagnose- I had hoped the information would help these guys find the source of the trouble.

YET I have not been impressed, their computer does all the thinking, and unfortunately, their computer just spits out codes, it does NO thinking. These techs are bewildered and these engines are just no fun anymore.

Lowell cowdoc.

 

[cb1000]

man id say if theyre JUST figuring out what the HPOP does
its gonna take more than an afternoon for 'em to figure out
where it IS, much less replace it !

 

[cowdoc]

Fellas-

I am just sick. Watching money go down the drain. The damn truck is THE number one tool in my toolbox, without it I make no money.

So... at the risk of really pissing off my techs I did a bit of online work and found these two articles to be helpful, maybe they will help one of you too someday-

Both relate to HPOP and oil pressure and such-

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-06-10.php

and

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-17.php

I printed off the articles and brought them to the dealership, on my pedal bike no less, apologized for doing their research, explained to them the urgency of my situation, thanked them and left.

They probably had a good laugh and went to work on the other vehicles in the shop, but hey, gotta try something.

L.

 

[colonelaberilla]

After reading this forum for years, I would say it was the HPOP. Although, next time yor truck cranks but doesn't fire go out and check the battery terminals. I was in Tahoe one year and same thing happened to my truck. The cause, starter would turn but the computer would not let the truck fire unless it saw "x" voltage. Probably not the case, but, it is an easy check and there is alot of vibration up there.

 

[Ken Kaepernick]

Cowdoc – I had the same issue on my 2004 E-350, 6.0L. The problem continued from about 75,000 miles to 121,000 miles. After many episodes of “no start” and not being able prove it to the dealership; the tech (EVS, Lomira, WI - see Tom) decided to install a device to monitor the conditions at the time of “no start”. Just like with you, every one here said it was the HPOP. Also, just like you, it was inconsistent - sometimes it did it when hot, but also did it when cold. The cold no start would not likely be the result of a bad HPOP. In any event, the “flight recorder” showed that there was good HP oil pressure while cranking, but sensor signals were not getting to the PCM to tell the injectors to fire. The repair was the replacement of the engine wiring harness. Unfortunately, Ford would not contribute to the repair. From 121,000 to the current 167,000 there has not been one failure — (knocking on wood here). It seemed to work for me. Good Luck.

Ken.......

 

[khitch710]

I had an 01 Excursion that would not start hot...it turned out to be a check valve on the high pressure oil system.. if the system overpressurizes then this valve opens to relieve it...mine was bypassing and it would not close all the way not letting it build up enough pressure to start...that is what the diesel tech told me when I pick my Excusrion up...maybe your problem...

 

[diesel_doctor]

The last one I had that acted this way was the IPR, had a little piece of crud in it and held it open.
They are simply too complicated to guess, too many things can make them act the same way.

 

[cowdoc]

Well,

They replaced a ICP sensor, put it all back together and were apparently able to generate more oil pressure when cranking, but they were not satisfied and decided to replace the HPOP, and hopefully make the necessary correction with the TSB fix (bracket) at the same time.

I have been whooped, and I will be setting everything back to STOCK as soon as I get the truck back. With my needs (primarily the thing must give me service everyday) I cannot afford the possibility of aftermarket mods messing up the truck...

So off comes the K/N filter system and the SuperChip programmer will not be used again.

Oh well, it was fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

L.

 

[Macattak1]

Greetings,

Chip probably is none issue.
But I bet the HPOP will fix it.
Mine did the same thing on the way home from MT.

 

[cowdoc]

Well,

Got the truck back later Friday night...

The tech told me they had it all fixed however there is one "issue".

He told me they have an exhaust leak at the turbo. They could not get the tubes to match up just like before and blamed distortion and warpage on heat. No matter how hard they cranked on the clamps, they couldn't stop the leak, nor the embarassing hissing noise associated with the leak. He felt that this may resolve as I drive the truck and the clamps and tubes work together with heat.

We'll see I guess. Otherwise they will need to order a new clamp and that ought to resolve that issue. I hope there is no danger to me with exhaust in cab as a result.

Otherwise the engine pops right off, perhaps better than ever before.

I also removed the K&N Air intake system and the Superchip program as recommended by others here. Anyone want to by either? Cheap.

We'll see how the truck does when back to "stock" configuration all around.

Thanks all. Cowdoc

 

[GregH]

You know, the truck shouldn't have been returned to you with an exhaust leak. Not only will it result in a loss of power, but the exhaust will find it's way into the cab while driving. Also, any components near the exhaust leak will be exposed to excessive heat. The y-pipe will not settle into the turbo and stop the leak on it's own.

Recently, I had to do head gaskets on an ambulance. Becuase of the ambulance gear, I was unable to fully remove the cab. In an effort to keep things simple, I separated the y-pipe at the coupling on the passenger side bove the EGR cooler. I then remove first the left head, and then the right head with the y-pipe still attatched. It took a little wiggling to get it all out, but it saved me the trouble of removing the y-pipe in the cab. However, even though nothing was moved during the gasket replacement, the y-pipe didn't even get close to the turbo. So I still had to bow up and loosen the y-pipe to make everything line up.

I would recommend taking it back and have them fix the exhaust leak. This truck shouldn't have ever left....

Glad you got the starting problem fixed. Was it the STC fitting?

 

[cowdoc]

Re: Al of a sudden, 2005 6.0L Cranks but won't Start

I haven't actually seen the repair order yet. Not sure what the STC fitting is. I hope they replaced the HPOP and added the bracket fix.

The clamp for the turbo is on order and truck will go back in for fix soon, meanwhile runnig with the windows partially open and putting up with the funny stares from people as I drive by "hissing" like an alley cat.

Tonight she sounds like a tornado/blizzard wind howlin' all in one.

Thanks for all the advice from everyone. I'll report if something new comes up regarding this issue.

Otherwise, I remain a lurker.

Cowdoc

 

[cowdoc]

Re: Al of a sudden, 2005 6.0L Cranks but won't Start

Got hold of the repair slip- didn't notice anything on it about a STF fitting bracket. Took it into the dealer to give 'em he!! and they told me that now when the HPOP is replaced it includes the bracket fix. They did not tell me what the issue was at the HPOP, just replaced the whole thing...

I hope so, there is no way I will know unless it happens again.

BTW, repair would have cost over $850, but under warranty-$100.

I will be bringing truck back in Wednesday so they can install new "Y" fitting pipe and clamps to back of turbo. Hopefully no more whine.

Thanks for all the insight into this issue.

Cowdoc.

 

[kadunn]

2006 6.0 powerstroke no start

was driving my truck home and it was really rough. turned on a road and normally if i step on it it would blow out all of the carbon. well this time it shut off. this happened in november. since then i have replaced ficm, icp sensor, ipr sensor, hpop, and fuel pump and none of it has worked. i am stumped.
can anyone help?

 

[bismic]

was driving my truck home and it was really rough. turned on a road and normally if i step on it it would blow out all of the carbon. well this time it shut off. this happened in november. since then i have replaced ficm, icp sensor, ipr sensor, hpop, and fuel pump and none of it has worked. i am stumped.
can anyone help?

It would be wise to start your own thread, you would get more help.

 

[Jmacdougall]

The STC fitting in my HPOP went about 2 years ago. It was a $1400-CAN repair at ford dealer as It wouldnt start when I was not in my home town. They quote out about 10 hrs of labour to perform all the work, so while they are in there get them to repair anything else that may be problematic