[Arlieedwards]

This is a very interesting topic. Ever since Adam Smith wrote Wealth of Nations in 1776, we of the Free Market Economies have driven the world in research and development of alternative uses for limited supplies. It seems that we are on the threshold of finding another fuel source. WVO is an interesting subject, but in order for the tipping point to occur, there must be a constant source. I wonder if there is enough WVO out there to supply enough tinkerers with enough fuel to provide the general population with enough vision to provide the tipping point to WVO as an alternative source of energy?

Don't get me wrong, I think research in this area is fascinating, and I think it will be a person much as some of you who will arrive at an alternative solution to hydrocarbons as a fuel source. If you are merely looking for something to entertain you, then research into WVO is completely justified, but if you are looking to make that historic leap into the next generation of an alternative fuel source, I don't see how there will be enough WVO out there to provide a commercial source for the general population.

Keep up the good work. It will be interesting to see if someone comes up with that GREAT IDEA. In my opinion, gasoline and diesel prices are approaching that point at which someone will develop an alternative fuel source that is economical, abundant and commercially marketable.

It will probably come out of a think tank such as this...remember there were a couple of bicycle mechanics that developed, built and flew the first airplane.

I will be watching with bated breath.


Keep up the good work.

Arlie

 

[Arlieedwards]

Rather than make this a really long post, I am breaking it into two.

My pet alternative fuel is ethyl alcohol. In the 1960's, a cult magazine by the name of Mother Earth News, sponsored a team who toured the country using ethyl alcohol as a fuel source.

They had a pickup with a trailer and a car. On the trailer was an ethyl alcohol still. They bought grain wherever they were, and distilled the ethyl alcohol out of the grain then used the alcohol to fuel the vehicles.

I attended one of their seminars in Dallas, Texas in the 60's. I have been interested in it ever since. I now read that Brazil uses Ethyl alcohol exclusively. The thing that amuses me is that Ethyl alcohol is about $1 cheaper per gallon to produce than gasoline. Other than the minor modifications to a gasoline engine that is required, I wonder why that source of fuel has not caught on in America. I realize that in inflation adjusted dollars, gasoline has actually gone down in price from say the 80's, but with a savings of $1 a gallon, you would think someone would provide ethyl alcohol as a common source of fuel.

You would think the forces of a free market economy would provide enough pressure for us to go the way of Brazil...Who knows?

If anyone has experience in the use of Ethyl alcohol I would be interested in your input.


Arlie

 

[roreri]

I'm wondering that after you used the corn to get the alcohol, then would there be any "corn oil" left in the mash for the veggie burners to use???

Just a thought

RoReRi

 

[JOAT]

Oil is a separate byproduct. Yu could run ethanol in modified cars and the vegoil in diesels, or you could use the ethanol and the oil to make biodiesel. The remaining protein and fiber goes to feed livestock.

Arlie, I used to read TMEN for alot of alternative ideas, fuel and other self sufficient schemes. Was a great mag till the late 70's when it got too comercialized and politics took over most of the pages. Still have alot of their publications on ethanol, wind, and water power.

 

[Arlieedwards]

Yes, I stopped taking it for some of the same reasons. However, I still have the loose leaf notebook that I got at that seminar on alternative fuels. It is very interesting. They made some really interesting claims. I wonder how many have proven correct after we have had all this time to evaluate them?

BTW, I would estimate that probably less than 10 % of the readers here are old enough to remember TMEN.

Arlie

 

[roreri]

They still have a publication out, although its not as "DOWN to EARTH" as it was years back. Still pretty good...

RoReRi

 

[TSUTrojan]

If your interested in the self-sufficient aspect, check our Backwoods Home . They do get into the politics, but usually just the editorials. Not much on alternative fuels, but they do cover alternitive energies for the house.

 

[JOAT]

Cool, between Backwoods Home and TMEN you can choose self reliance from opposite ends of the socio/political spectrum /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Niether seem to have any alternative vehicle fuel projects going these days. TMEN does have the magazines from 1970-1980 on CD, which should cover alot of info on creating vehicles powered by alcohol, electric and hydraulic hybrids, full electric, and wood gas. Also all the alcohol brewing and processing info. Alot of the books I remember them publishing then are apparently not available anymore.

If you could come up with a source of free waste to brew alcohol from, you could make biodiesel without having to buy Methanol. You could even make your own lye if you wanted from wood ashes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[mm0015]

As far as enough supply goes, I don't see why it should be an issue. Sure, there may be a limited supply of WVO. But I see no reason if their was a demand for more VO for fuel purposes, that production of VO could not be increased. They may even begin to offer a fuel grade VO that does not meet standards for food use, but is cheaper to produce and still has good characteristics for fuel use.

 

[mm0015]

Not to mention the positive influence this would have on our agricultural economy. It would help our nation to keep more of the transportion fuel costs domestic.

 

[Arlieedwards]

As far as alternative fuels go, we are talking about a carbon based renewable resource. There are several problems to overcome.
1.A fair enough price for the raw product that it would entice farmers to produce it. That would mean that this resource would be in competition with other crops for finite space in our agricultural environment. which means they could make more by growing this product than they could by growing other farm products.
2. Refinement centers distributed across the country that it would not be prohibitive to transport long distances.
3. A distribution system to cover all the country
4. Prices that are competitive with other alternative fuels.
5. A stable enough supply that it would encourage vehicle owners to make the slight modifications necessary to burn it.
6. A method to dispose of the by products of refinement.

These are merely a few things that have to be overcome. I am sure others can add to the list.

The main thing is to make sure it is truly a free market enterprise and keep the government out of any part of it other than a person getting an alternative fuel tax credit for production and use of the fuels.

One of the results would be that the South and the far North would not have a monopoly on the source. Since this would be an agricultural product which would probably be some sort of grain, it would seem that the plains states would benefit the most.

Arlie