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Discussion Starter #1
I'm having difficulty finding rims I like (and in my price range) which have a 4-1/4" backspacing or less. I'll be running 37" tires and want to keep them away from the springs at full-lock.

What is the general thought on wheel spacers?

Who sells them, what sizes are they offered in and what is the price range?

Would I need to use them in the rear as well if I use them up front, or can my trackwidth be wider front vs. back?
 

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My personal opinion is bad idea especially going with big tires, they put a lot of stress on your axle parts. I wouldn't put them on my ATV let alone a truck, I would wait on putting everything on your truck until you can afford the right stuff. You could be spending a lot more money on bearings and other parts of your axles in a short period of time.
My 1$ worth.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
What is the general thought on wheel spacers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Terrible idea. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Buy the wheels that are made for your vehicle. If nobody makes them yet, then pay the big bucks and have Stockton Wheel custom-make your wheels with the correct hub-centric pilot bore and the correct offset/inset - and wide enough for the tires you intend to mount on them. www.stocktonwheel.com
 

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You can use them in the front only if you want it that way. Also if you do decide to use spacers, buy actual wheel adapters, not spacers. Meaning you will have 8 nuts that hold on the adapter, and 8 lug studs for the wheel. The reason this is not a good idea, is because of the unibearing hubs. They are meant to carry the weight on the hub, not the studs. A lot of people use lug centric wheels with no problem, myself included. I dont tow over 5K at any given time, and pay attention to torque on my lug nuts every 1K miles or so. You can check e-bay for the adapters, they will be made from 6061 aluminum, That is about the best pricing I have ever found. But...if you are only wanting to add a very little amount, then I would also just try and find a wheel with the correct back spacing, or buy the wheels you like, and you will just have to modify your steering stops, but then you will make a truck that has a bad turning radius even worse /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

You would think with all the hub centric vehicles on the road, the wheels would be more common, so to bring the pricing down. Im not sure, but what other trucks than a Ford are 8 on 170?? If they are going to make a wheel that only fits a late model Ford 8 lug, why not machine the center right, right off the bat???

Good luck
 

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Wheel spacers are fine for lighter duty vehicles... I've run them on Jeeps and Rockcrawlers fine... not my first choice but they do work fine as long as you go with a reputable brand such as Spidertrax. However, what others have posted is correct... they will put additonal stress on your bearings especially on these heavier trucks. I also would not want to tow anything substantial while using spacers. Another thing to keep in mind is that wheel spacers are illegal in many states.
It is a much better idea to find wheels that have the backspacing you need for the tires you wish to run.

Rob
 

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I just installed the weld evo wheels on my truck,alittle pricey but then again so was the truck. Backspace is 4.5 and there is no rubbing anywhere on the springs. Also i would no way to spacers.
 

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Wheel spacers = BAD.

I'm lug centric when I rum my summer wheels but spacers are suicide even with our trucks unloaded weight IMHO. (8,000+lbs. empty as seen in my pics).
 

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Yes
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll stay away from them and spend the extra bucks on proper wheels for my application.

Dumb Question: What does "Hub-Centric mean?
 

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hubcentric means the rim centers on your hub,lugcentric means the lugs center the wheel to the hub usually having a gap between your rim center hole and your hub this is how i understand it. You most likley want a hubcentric wheel that is what i run. Hope this helps
 

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[ QUOTE ]
What does "Hub-Centric mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a slang term, meaning, I think, "hub piloted".

It means the wheel's center hole (pilot bore) is just exactly the right size to barely slip over the hub. All the weight of the truck is on the hub and not on the lug bolts. The only purpose of the lug bolts and lug nuts is to hold the wheel on the hub - not to actually bear any weight or help center the wheel on the hub.

The slang term for the other - old-fashioned - type of wheel is called lug centric. The pilot bore is bigger than the hub, so it's not used for any weight carrying or wheel centering. The lugnuts are conical, so the wheel is centered on the hub by the lug nuts fitting into the depressions in the wheel, and all the weight on the hub is carried by the lug bolts, not the hub.

There is a major difference in the engineering of the two types of hubs - including different forces on the wheel bearings. Although lug-centric wheels can be drilled with a bolt pattern that will fit onto your hub-centric hubs, the hubs are not designed to handle the stress and strain of the lug-centric wheels.

Lug-centric wheels are less expensive than hub-centric wheels so far. So lots of folks buy the "cheap" lug centric wheels. But they are a dangerous solution to your desire for something "different". If you want to be safe in your Superduty pickup, then buy only wheels with a 4.93" center bore. If the wheels rattle around on the hubs, you have the wrong wheels for your ride. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif
 

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Not so...

I guess I'll be the only one to go against the crowd...

1st of all, almost all duallies are using an adapter, people just
don't realize it until they dissasemble the rear axle.

But there are cheap junk ones that you want to avoid and there
are high quality ones that are used on all type of heavy machines.
Yes you want to use ones that are hub-piloted, made of high grade
steel vs aluminum.

The poor quality ones have given them all a bad name.

As for wheel bearings... the more you move the centerline of the
tire out past the centerline of the bearings, you are loading them
with a constant lateral load. A few inches is not a problem, what
causes problems is where someone installs a 14" wide rim with all
the offset going out. Regardless of adapters or not, if you move the
tire that far out, you're going to be replacing wheel bearings.

However, if the rim you like has little offset, and you add an
adapter, say 3 inches wide, the total effect of the tire position
over the wheel bearing has changed very little.

I run Weld Cheyenne wheels, 20x12 with 49" IROKS, They are about 21
inches wide, and the rim has no offset. So I ordered 3.5 inch
wide, steel, hub piloted adapters from Fred Goeske. They moved the
rims out, but the no offset of the rims cancelled out most of the
offset, which allowed me to run the rims I wanted without the tires
rubbing my springs. A set of 4 will cost you about $800.00

I used this setup on all my big trucks for years without ever having
a failure of any wheel bearings. I should also mention that I run
them in severe off-road areas, I jump the truck in the sand dunes,
(my home away from home)and I tow my trailer with the sandrails as
well.

Last of all I entered the data on Fred's adapters in ProE,
(engineering software) and failures were indicated at 80,000 lbs.
The axles and truck frame would fail before the adapters...

www.wheeladapters.com is the link
 

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[ QUOTE ]
But they are a dangerous solution to your desire for something "different". If you want to be safe in your Superduty pickup, then buy only wheels with a 4.93" center bore. If the wheels rattle around on the hubs, you have the wrong wheels for your ride. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/warmsmile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Smokey...first off, i normally don't disagree with anything you've said in the past. But i would like to know how lug-centric wheels are so dangerous. I had lug-centric wheels on my '01 (114K miles) and i've got them on my '02 (93K miles) and not the first problem. my '01 weighed 7700 lbs. and my '02 weighs 8100 lbs. and i only tow 20% of the time, but when i do tow its around 15K+.

i just wanted people to know that lug-centric wheels are fine to use. i chose not to buy the hub-centrics, not because of the price, but because the wheels i wanted were not offered in hub-centric.

so NO, i didn't do it the "cheap" way, i did it "my way" and thats the most important to me!!

thomas
 

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I could plug all that data into ProE, but I can say right now,
as an engineer, that lug centeric are not nearly as strong a hub-centric.

The lugs are designed to pull (tension) the rim to the axle flange.
The flange on the axle, sort of like a hat, slides tightly into the
center of the rim. That "hat" is what actually carries the weight
of the vehicle, not the studs/lugs.

When you go to lug centered rims, the studs/lugs are now carrying
the load... not even 20% as strong. Every time the wheel turns, the
weight of the vehicle is prying the studs back and forth... even if
it's only in thousandths of an inch, it's still happening.

All vehicles 3/4 ton and up run hub centric wheels...
 

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In a previous post that I cannot find (i think it's in the most recent archive which i don't think is searchable at this time) I ran some calcs on the shear stress in the bolts of a lug-centric configuration and found the stress to be well below the allowable stress. So that component of the assembly will be ok. I did not check flexure in the bolts but the fact that there are vehicles that weigh half as much as a SD with half the number of lug bolts using lug-centric wheels leads me to believe that the bolts would ok in bending. That said and knowing that large factors of saftey are used when designing things due to my engineering experience I would say that you probably won't have any problems with lug-centric. Now when that situation of events that pushes the design to the limits occurs the lug-centric might fail where the hub-centric probably won't.

Fatigue could be a problem though since the bolts will experience stress (due to bending) reversal as the wheel rotates. Without further calculations it's hard to speculate if fatigue would be a problem. Perhaps F*rd has investigated this and chose to go with hub-centric which eliminates bending stress in the bolts and thus the fatigue issue.

If I were to buy new wheels...I would purchase the hub-centric wheels. The engineers as F*rd spent many more hours analyzing this than I have and if they chose hub-centric then hub-centric it is for me.
 

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Another point that we didn't make is that the moment a lug-centric
stud becomes loose (as in not torqued to spec) the flexing of the stud
begins and becomes exaggerated, which in turn spins the nut looser,
and then allows the rim to go off center, which in turn assists in
backing off the other lug nuts...

On a hub-piloted wheel, you could get by on two lugs opposite each
other, and probably run for months like that.

Tell me thet last time you ever say a hub-piloted wheel that came off,
VS a lug-centered wheel... I see them on the side of the road all
the time, where the entire rim came off the hub... quite common.

Why don't all wheels come hub-piloted, even for cars...???

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's expensive to machine the "hat" to tolerance, as well as the
center bore of the matching rim...
 

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did i say lug-centric was stronger? i looked back, but couldn't find where i said that!! i don't need to plug any numbers/data in anywhere to know that there's nothing wrong with my lug-centric wheels.

sure, there have been lug-centric wheels that have broke, cracked, etc. guess what, i have 6 Pete's, 1 KW and 25 Utility Ref. trailers that all have hub-piloted wheels and i've seen the same things (breaks, cracks, broken studs and broken axle spindles)

some people make it sound like hub-centric wheels will never give you problems .... there is nothing man-made that won't give problems!!

in my 16 yrs. of driving (over 1 million miles) i don't recall seeing a rim laying on/near the road... and if i did, i know i didn't stop to see if it was hub- or lug-centric.

i'm no engineer, but i went to college and got a degree .... but i'll take my "real world" education over that any day!!

thomas
 

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[ QUOTE ]


There is a major difference in the engineering of the two types of hubs - including different forces on the wheel bearings.

[/ QUOTE ] The wheel bearings will be subjected to exactly the same forces with either mounting style. Can anyone point to any examples here where lugs are breaking or any other problems caused by wheels that are lug piloted? It is important to note that probably 98% of all new wheels installed are wider and almost all of those keep the original backspacing so they do NOT have the same offset as the original wheels. That means that they will change the forces on the wheel bearings but it is because of the different offset NOT because of the type of mounting system.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


There is a major difference in the engineering of the two types of hubs - including different forces on the wheel bearings.

[/ QUOTE ] The wheel bearings will be subjected to exactly the same forces with either mounting style. Can anyone point to any examples here where lugs are breaking or any other problems caused by wheels that are lug piloted? It is important to note that probably 98% of all new wheels installed are wider and almost all of those keep the original backspacing so they do NOT have the same offset as the original wheels. That means that they will change the forces on the wheel bearings but it is because of the different offset NOT because of the type of mounting system.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, the gentleman that wrote that might have meant that
the different type hub often has the wheel bearing located in a
different position than a lug centered hub. But if the wheel bearings
were in the same exact position, it would make no difference.

A perfect example is the front hub on a dually truck... it has 4+
inches of "wheel adapter" built right into it in order to be able
to accommodate a rear dually wheel up front... but that wheel has
4" of negative offset to bring the center of the tire back over the
bearings...
 

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I'm having difficulty finding rims I like (and in my price range) which have a 4-1/4" backspacing or less. I'll be running 37" tires and want to keep them away from the springs at full-lock.

What is the general thought on wheel spacers?

Who sells them, what sizes are they offered in and what is the price range?

Would I need to use them in the rear as well if I use them up front, or can my trackwidth be wider front vs. back?
[/引用]
BONOSS sells high-quality wheel spacers, try them, they're awesome.
 
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