[Rocky61]

I have a 2007 Ford F250 6.0 diesel. It seems I have had one problem after another and I am learning as I go. My latest problem has me at a loss and I can't seem to pinpoint the cause.
I've had the truck for about three years now. I've replaced the FICM, EGR cooler, cleaned the EGR valve, cleaned the turbo, replaced the oil cooler, replaced the head gaskets, and most recently I put a new alternator in it. It is still smoking! Not only is it smoking but there seems to be a loss of power. Just today, the start was difficult and that is when I found the alternator was bad. I recently took it to the Ford dealer for a diagnostic. They said the FICM needed to be replaced again... so I have put a second one in it.
1. So, one thing the dealer has in their notes is that during a power balance test, cylinders 3 and 7 dropped -20 RPM, and during a relative compression test all cylinders passed. Could I need new fuel injectors on 3 and 7?
2. The EGR test failed. I am going to replace this but could this be the cause of the white smoke (smells like unburnt fuel - not coolant) and the lack of power?
3. I noticed today that the turbo took a long time to kick in - do you think I need to clean it again (did so about 2 years ago)... or can one of these other issues be the problem? Maximum MGP was 3.44 PSI during test.
4. I checked the EBP sensor today - was clear, but did find a few wires that were exposed so I fixed those. When I started the truck again, I got a P0113 Air Intake Temperature Circuit. This is a new one. I cleared and it did not reappear.

In the last 3+ years of owning it, I have put less than 20K miles on it because it has been one thing after another. It has now 86K miles on it. I know these issues are all over forums but I have read them and still can't pinpoint what is going on.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[TKOPerformance]

First off, stop using Ford FICMs. You're just putting the same failure prone part back in the truck. Send the FICM to Ed at FICMRepair.com - FORD Powerstroke 6.0 FICM Repair, PHP Tuning and Truck Parts. He can upgrade the FICM so it doesn't ever fail again, and offers a lifetime warranty if you purchase that option. The lifetime warranty unit is still considerably cheaper than buying a new one from Ford (probably half the cost).

Second, how many miles on the truck? If you are in the 150k range I would just replace all 8 injectors. Their typical service life is 100-150k. There's a lot demanded of them, and they just don't last forever. If you have two already dropping out in a contribution test then it tells you the others aren't far behind. At the very least, since 3 and 7 are on the same bank; do those four to save repeat labor costs, or time if you're doing the work yourself.

Third, a stuck EGR valve will absolutely cause a loss of power, so if the valve is stuck that's got to be replaced.

When it comes to diagnostics, you need to start eliminating possibilities before reaching for new ones. You know you have two injectors that are bad, and a bad EGR valve. Those are legit, diagnosed issues. Fix them first, then if issues remain you know those items have been eliminated and you can start looking at other possible causes.

I understand not wanting to keep having to sink money into it, but not driving a 6.0 is about the worst thing you can do to it. These trucks are meant to be worked. I see far fewer issues with the ones that get up every morning and go to work than with the ones that sit on the bench until they're needed for a special teams play. Sometimes that's the nature of the beast, but I'd try at the very least to run the truck at least once a week, get everything up to temperature, make it see some daylight above 3,000RPM, etc.

 

[Relentless007]

^ ^ ^ ^ X2

 

[Rocky61]

Thanks for your input TKO! I agree that we need to eliminate what has been diagnosed. My husband and I have disagreed about the EGR valve - I say it needs to be replaced and he didn't think it could be the problem. Now I have something to back me up. I am going to replace the EGR valve today since it is an easy fix. I'll keep you updated. Thanks for your help!

 

[Racin4ds]

You'll be much further ahead by deleting the EGR entirely! Quit wasting money on the POS that shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[TKOPerformance]

If you don't need it to pass a visual emissions test, and the only place I can think of that you might would be CA, I would tend to agree. Complexity breeds failure, simplicity breeds reliability.

 

[Torched]

Hi,

You need to understand basic mechanics first. Usually there are two main sensors that decide how much fuel to air is added to make your truck go.

If you got white smoke, your engine is indeed throwing too much fuel into the mix. Since diesel engines rely on compression and not spark, not all of it burns and the residue is the smoke.

Be sure to check all vacume lines and turbo tubes for cracks or openings any excess air into the engine, after the MAP/MAF sensor will cause your PCM to add more fuel then needed. So check them before doing what is written here below;

There are a few questions you need to look in to.

First off ask yourself why there is too much fuel. And if you understand a basic combustion system you can narrow it down by process of elimination.

Is the fuel entering the engine? Yes, because we see it leaving the exhaust and the truck is running.

Does the truck opperate normally even though there is smoke? As in no check engine light and no vibrations. Yes, it runs normally.

So now we know there Is no issue with the cylinders and pump/lines. Because there are no excess noises and the fuel is obviously reaching the engine.

Now we need to understand the PCM.

Your main computer reads sensors. Sensors that are monitoring the air input, oil temps, coolents temps etc...all these sensors relay back to the PCM and the PCM replys to the air intake system and fuel systems and tells them we need more air or the PCM might say, we need more fuel.

So we should suspect the computer is telling the fuel system "we need more fuel".

But this may not be the case because Ford built theses motors special. We have a 'Third' main sensor somewhere that relays through the PCM. On our 6.0 diesels the PCM also takes readings from your oil pressure. If the oil pressure is to low the oil sensor will tell the PCM to back off on air and fuel, this is where most FICM issues are found. And vice versa if the oil pressure is high the sensor will tell the PCM more air and more fuel.

So now you need to throttle test it.

Do the rmp move up at a normal rate when you throttle it? Yes, it does. So we can eliminate the oil pressure. And computer because they are opperating in unison.

Now you can only look in one more spot. The point of fuel injection.

Since we know the mechanics are opperating normal and the electrical is doing its job we can now blame a suspect.

The problem is somewhere in your fuel delivery system. How are we certain?

A. Because the engine is sound
B. The PCM is doing its job
C. and, the theottle test shows we are building pressure.

So the software is perfect, but there might be an issue with the hardware.

""""In this case, it is likely your injectors arent closing. Commonly they have broken tips that are throwing fuel into the chambers moreso then needed giving you the white smoke.""""

Now that we know your point of fuel injection is at fault find the faulty injector(s) and relace.

 

[Torched]

Replace. Not relace lol.

PS. Your egr recurculates exhaust to cool it down, there should be no reason it has anything to do with your fuel

 

[TKOPerformance]

Actually the EGR introduces exhaust gas into the engine in an effort to curb NOx emissions. The idea is that exhaust gas, being a byproduct of combustion, has nothing combustible left in it and is inert. But, the gas still takes up space in the cylinders. This inert gas effectively makes the cylinder smaller, meaning that less fuel can be burned than would normally be possible (otherwise overly lean). Less fuel being burned equals less emissions, specifically NOx, which Diesels produce in particularly high amounts, being the byproduct primarily of high compression engines.

The issue with the exhaust gas temperature is that if it entered the engine at the temperature it leaves the cylinders it would contribute to increased EGT by raising cylinder temperatures. So Diesels run it through an EGR cooler first to both cool the gas temperature and make it more dense.

The situation is basically the same on a gas engine, except the leaning principle is especially important because gas engines operate under such narrow A/F ratios and too lean (15:1 is really pushing it) will just cause the engine to fail to ignite, plus it raises coolant temperature, etc. So computer controls actually use the EGR valve to allow leaner mixtures and improve highway fuel economy.

On a Diesel this is somewhat arbitrary because they operate over such a wide A/F ratio range (like 100:1-15:1, maybe even less). So the main goal is to reduce emissions, but the EGR only functions during steady state operation where load and RPM are constant. How often does that occur in the real world? Not very often, which means the system works great for qualifying an engine for EPA certification on a dyno, but does very little in the real world.

Why a stuck EGR valve can cause issues in a Diesel is that the PCM believes the valve is closed, but its not. So the engine needs less fuel, but is receiving the amount it would use with the valve closed. Overfueling produces white smoke. This is one of many scenarios that could cause overfueling and/or white smoke, which can also be caused by coolant entering the engine. A stuck EGR is also responsible for a loss of power because less fuel is being burned, meaning less force pushing down on the pistons, less torque, slower turbo spool up, etc. So based on symptoms alone a stuck EGR valve is a safe bet.

 

[Torched]

Im sorry dude. But i must disagree TKO

Remember "it smells like diesel"

Yes, the egr reburns the carbon to lower emissions, but it cools it down too. That is why it passes through with coolent.

!!Too cool down before being reburnt!!

You don't just throw hot exhaust air into the combustion chamber because it is extremely hot, not only will it over heat but damage your head gasket and ring seals. Ford knew this, thus throwing a coolent pipe into the egr to cool the exhaust gasses before it is burnt again.

And if your EGR was stuck open, the truck would blow black smoke if any smoke at all. Not white. White smoke means liquid. In an EGR case, only the coolent would blow white and coolent would disperse evenly, not through just the 3 and 7 cylinders. And it wouldnt be thick, it would be small amounts with a coolent smell.

 

[lomac]

Had mine lose power and smoke like that one time. Had one guy tell it was my injectors. Another guy came out, put his computer on it and said the Egr was stuck due to a piece of carbon. Cleaned it out and reinstalled. Unplugged the EGR while the engine was off. Never had a problem again. I know u lose like 25-30% of your fan duty cycle but never had any issues w that.

 

[Rocky61]

We would delete the EGR completely but we live in California. I also don't want my engine light on constantly because the truck has been unreliable. If the light was always on, I'd never know if it was coming on for some other reason. Trust me, we've gone over the idea of EGR delete.

 

[ford_doctor]

Im sorry dude. But i must disagree TKO

Remember "it smells like diesel"

Yes, the egr reburns the carbon to lower emissions, but it cools it down too. That is why it passes through with coolent.

!!Too cool down before being reburnt!!

You don't just throw hot exhaust air into the combustion chamber because it is extremely hot, not only will it over heat but damage your head gasket and ring seals. Ford knew this, thus throwing a coolent pipe into the egr to cool the exhaust gasses before it is burnt again.

And if your EGR was stuck open, the truck would blow black smoke if any smoke at all. Not white. White smoke means liquid. In an EGR case, only the coolent would blow white and coolent would disperse evenly, not through just the 3 and 7 cylinders. And it wouldnt be thick, it would be small amounts with a coolent smell.

Mr. TKO is quite accurate with his explanation of how EGR works. NOx gasses are formed at very high temperatures in the combustion chamber. The inert exhaust gasses lower peak combustion temperatures to reduce the formation of NOx. The reason the exhaust gasses are cooled is to make it more dense causing the EGR system to become more effective... and yes, cooling the gasses does directly help.


With regard to the smoke comment, depending on engine load and how much the EGR valve is (stuck) open, it is normal and common to see BOTH black and then white smoke emissions under the right conditions. If the smoke coming out of the tailpipe has progressed to gray or white it is because the fuel being injected into the cylinders is no longer burning and the engine is probably in the process of stalling.

 

[Torched]

Im sorry dude. But i must disagree TKO

Remember "it smells like diesel"

Yes, the egr reburns the carbon to lower emissions, but it cools it down too. That is why it passes through with coolent.

!!Too cool down before being reburnt!!

You don't just throw hot exhaust air into the combustion chamber because it is extremely hot, not only will it over heat but damage your head gasket and ring seals. Ford knew this, thus throwing a coolent pipe into the egr to cool the exhaust gasses before it is burnt again.

And if your EGR was stuck open, the truck would blow black smoke if any smoke at all. Not white. White smoke means liquid. In an EGR case, only the coolent would blow white and coolent would disperse evenly, not through just the 3 and 7 cylinders. And it wouldnt be thick, it would be small amounts with a coolent smell.

Mr. TKO is quite accurate with his explanation of how EGR works. NOx gasses are formed at very high temperatures in the combustion chamber. The inert exhaust gasses lower peak combustion temperatures to reduce the formation of NOx. The reason the exhaust gasses are cooled is to make it more dense causing the EGR system to become more effective... and yes, cooling the gasses does directly help.


With regard to the smoke comment, depending on engine load and how much the EGR valve is (stuck) open, it is normal and common to see BOTH black and then white smoke emissions under the right conditions. If the smoke coming out of the tailpipe has progressed to gray or white it is because the fuel being injected into the cylinders is no longer burning and the engine is probably in the process of stalling.

Yea bud. I know. I write based on experience. And ive never seen white smoke from an egr issue. Only black. And i speaking about stock non tuned trucks. Like the average American drives.

 

[TKOPerformance]

I initially thought that white smoke was an indication of something other than fuel. What I've discovered is that white smoke can also come when its overfueling by just a little bit. I had three rounds of individual injectors that caused this. Long story short, you get what you pay for with injectors. Its also common to get a little white smoke on cold mornings.

To the OP, if you live in CA then you have to go with a BPD EGR cooler, which has a lifetime warranty and will not fail. A '07 will throw a CEL without the EGR system unless you turn it off with a tuner, so you're right to keep that system in place to avoid future hassles.

 

[Rocky61]

Just an update: We replaced the EGR valve which helped tremendously with the power issue. I believe the bad valve was causing the turbo to not work correctly - would you say this is correct? We have not dug into the injectors yet - I work 60+ hours a week and haven't had the time. I have noticed that the smoke gets better once the truck is driven for awhile but still smokes too much to be 'normal'. I also had a vibration or knocking when I turned on the air conditioner. I'm sure it was a missing of injectors. Since it seems that my injectors are not always malfunctioning, I'm going to try a oil treatment for the stiction until I can get to the injectors. I appreciate all the feedback - I'm getting an education on this diesel truck!

 

[TKOPerformance]

Try dumping a full bottle of Diesel Kleen (made by CRC, local auto parts stores should have it) in a full tank of fuel and run it through. That will thoroughly clean anything on the fuel side, plus adding a bit of lubricity.