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I would like to get both the ats and the ww. Is there a down side to using these two together or does one work better without the other. Thanks.
ats ww
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I am after the whisle of my 96 turbo but want to kill surge. Any one run both together.
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Plenty of folks run both together... won't be any problems. The stock wheel flows a bit more air (couple pounds more of boost, all else being equal), but the wicked wheel is more efficient, which helps lessen surge. A search or just reading any of the few threads from the last week or so will yield plenty more info.
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Good to know I was hopeing to see both together
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I run the ATS housing with the stock wheel and muffler delete. It whistles quite abit and I have no surge.
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1,373 Posts
FOMOGO is doing some testing with various housing/wheel combinations. I'm sure he'll post his results soon.
Well I have run 3 combinations now and can tell you the best of the 3 is the ATS housing and the Stock compressor wheel.
I started with a WW/ATS housing combo. It was slow to clear the smoke and laggy on the bottom end. It was strong on the mid and upper RPMs.
I then swapped out turbos for another identical turbo with a stock wheel and ATS housing. It would clear the smoke quickly and had no lag down low. It would pull strong from just off idle to redline.
I am currently running a third combination of the first turbo. I just removed the ATS housing and installed a stock housing with the WW. It feels good around town and will make boost quickly but does not have the power of the stock wheel ATS housing combo.
I changed to another 6 position chip today and it runs real well with the stock housing and WW. Almost no smoke except in the 120 horse setting. I am going to drive it a week or so and reinstall the ATS housing on this turbo before I remove it from the truck.
Then I will swap out the turbo for the Stock wheel/ATS housing combo.
Just to clarify, all this is being done with 2 van turbos. So all the comparisons are as equal as I can make them. They are both fresh rebuilt and both are balanced.
Please note that I am doing this for my own knowledge and curiosity. I am not trying to write this in stone. I just wanted to share my findings for others to use as a rule of thumb for there choices down the road.
Here is a brief description I made in another thread about the Van turbos.
stock turbo - will have surge. I did not run/test this combination. I felt it was a mute point.
stock turbo + WW - will cure most surge issues. Will make 25 to 30 pounds of boost, depending on your tunes. Good whistle.
stock turbo + ATS housing - will cure 99 plus percent of surge issues. Great response and will make 30 to 35 pounds of boost, depending on your tunes. Slightly better whistle.
stock turbo + WW + ATS housing - no surge issues what so ever. Slower response down low. But hold on once it lights. Will make 35 to 40 pounds of boost, depending on your tunes. Lots of whistle. Definitely requires radio volume adjustments...
These are my findings and observations. Some have said they made more boost with a stock wheel/ATS housing. Others reported loosing 4 to 5 pounds of boost when changing from the WW/ATS combo to a stock wheel/ATS combo. The later agrees with my findings.
I have found that the van turbo is a very nice combination on these trucks. It has a lower drive pressure and only makes 3 or 4 pounds of boost running down the interstate at 75 to 78 MPH. More or less it is floating along until you get into it. Around town you are lucky to see the needle move when you are running along at 45 and lift the throttle.
To clarify another item that has come up about the van turbo. Some people including myself were under the impression that the only difference between a van turbo and a truck turbo was the different A/R ratio on the exhaust housing. With the van having a 1.15 and the truck having a .84. The turbine/exhaust wheels have a different trim also. The van wheel is actually .200 larger at the OD than a truck wheel and the vains are trimmed differently. The truck turbine will leave almost 1/8 inch gap off of the van exhaust housing.
So you cant just put a van housing on a truck turbo and it perform efficiently. It will physically fit and bolt up but it is not doing its job.
A truck hosing will not physically fit on a van turbo as the wheel and housing actually hit and will not go on about the last 1/2 inch.
Hopefully this has answered all the questions one could have about what combination to run. Be it a van turbo or a truck turbo the results should be very similar except for the function of the waste gate bleeding off boost on the truck turbo, while the van turbo does not use a waste gate.
Any questions, just ask.
FOMOGO
I started with a WW/ATS housing combo. It was slow to clear the smoke and laggy on the bottom end. It was strong on the mid and upper RPMs.
I then swapped out turbos for another identical turbo with a stock wheel and ATS housing. It would clear the smoke quickly and had no lag down low. It would pull strong from just off idle to redline.
I am currently running a third combination of the first turbo. I just removed the ATS housing and installed a stock housing with the WW. It feels good around town and will make boost quickly but does not have the power of the stock wheel ATS housing combo.
I changed to another 6 position chip today and it runs real well with the stock housing and WW. Almost no smoke except in the 120 horse setting. I am going to drive it a week or so and reinstall the ATS housing on this turbo before I remove it from the truck.
Then I will swap out the turbo for the Stock wheel/ATS housing combo.
Just to clarify, all this is being done with 2 van turbos. So all the comparisons are as equal as I can make them. They are both fresh rebuilt and both are balanced.
Please note that I am doing this for my own knowledge and curiosity. I am not trying to write this in stone. I just wanted to share my findings for others to use as a rule of thumb for there choices down the road.
Here is a brief description I made in another thread about the Van turbos.
stock turbo - will have surge. I did not run/test this combination. I felt it was a mute point.
stock turbo + WW - will cure most surge issues. Will make 25 to 30 pounds of boost, depending on your tunes. Good whistle.
stock turbo + ATS housing - will cure 99 plus percent of surge issues. Great response and will make 30 to 35 pounds of boost, depending on your tunes. Slightly better whistle.
stock turbo + WW + ATS housing - no surge issues what so ever. Slower response down low. But hold on once it lights. Will make 35 to 40 pounds of boost, depending on your tunes. Lots of whistle. Definitely requires radio volume adjustments...
These are my findings and observations. Some have said they made more boost with a stock wheel/ATS housing. Others reported loosing 4 to 5 pounds of boost when changing from the WW/ATS combo to a stock wheel/ATS combo. The later agrees with my findings.
I have found that the van turbo is a very nice combination on these trucks. It has a lower drive pressure and only makes 3 or 4 pounds of boost running down the interstate at 75 to 78 MPH. More or less it is floating along until you get into it. Around town you are lucky to see the needle move when you are running along at 45 and lift the throttle.
To clarify another item that has come up about the van turbo. Some people including myself were under the impression that the only difference between a van turbo and a truck turbo was the different A/R ratio on the exhaust housing. With the van having a 1.15 and the truck having a .84. The turbine/exhaust wheels have a different trim also. The van wheel is actually .200 larger at the OD than a truck wheel and the vains are trimmed differently. The truck turbine will leave almost 1/8 inch gap off of the van exhaust housing.
So you cant just put a van housing on a truck turbo and it perform efficiently. It will physically fit and bolt up but it is not doing its job.
A truck hosing will not physically fit on a van turbo as the wheel and housing actually hit and will not go on about the last 1/2 inch.
Hopefully this has answered all the questions one could have about what combination to run. Be it a van turbo or a truck turbo the results should be very similar except for the function of the waste gate bleeding off boost on the truck turbo, while the van turbo does not use a waste gate.
Any questions, just ask.
FOMOGO
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1,865 Posts
Yes, excellent job, FOMOGO. Lots of great info.
Been itching the last couple nights to go ahead and order an ATS housing. Probably will in about 10 minutes. I think I'll go with LIPD, seems they have the best price at $400 and no shipping charge.
Been itching the last couple nights to go ahead and order an ATS housing. Probably will in about 10 minutes. I think I'll go with LIPD, seems they have the best price at $400 and no shipping charge.
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355 Posts
This IS good info FOMOGO. I know how labor intensive it must be to try all of the differant combanations. I was thinking about getting a WW but now I think I will just stay with the stock wheel. Thanks for all your hard work.
great info...but how do your findings add up against the garret bb turbo and others? are the gains of opting for a new turbo (any model) better than any ats, stock wheel and wicked wheel combo can deliver? sorry if these q's have been asked before..i've bee away for quite some time and am not up to speed on the advancements in knowledge you guys have gained in my abscence.....
darrenb
darrenb
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56 Posts
Looks like I made my choice I will go with ats and ww. it should be here monday. Great info. That is what I wanted to know. Thanks
t
t
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I am adicted to all the screamin my 96 turbo has with the open intake chip down pipe stage one inj fuel system and and and here we go again. Its to bad I have to fix the 01 to run like the 96 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Well its kind of hard to answer your question as there are so many turbos to choose from these days. But for a comparison of the output of the van turbo verses a BB turbo I will post the dyno numbers from this past weekend.
Van turbo, stock wheel, ATS housing, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Tony Corn 7.3 PSD 2000 F250 hp-325.8 tq-721.3
BB turbo, big oil, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Don Moody 7.3 PSD 2001 F250 hp-341.7 tq-681.1
Does that help? The "others" are not in the same league with the van and BB turbo. They flow tons more air and require tons more fuel. Not to mention extensive programing. Both of the truck above are running stock AD injectors. Tony's programing would work in almost any 7.3 with stock oil. Don's programming will work in almost any 7.3 with big oil. So thats about as close to an equal comparison as I can give you.
FOMOGO
Van turbo, stock wheel, ATS housing, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Tony Corn 7.3 PSD 2000 F250 hp-325.8 tq-721.3
BB turbo, big oil, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Don Moody 7.3 PSD 2001 F250 hp-341.7 tq-681.1
Does that help? The "others" are not in the same league with the van and BB turbo. They flow tons more air and require tons more fuel. Not to mention extensive programing. Both of the truck above are running stock AD injectors. Tony's programing would work in almost any 7.3 with stock oil. Don's programming will work in almost any 7.3 with big oil. So thats about as close to an equal comparison as I can give you.
FOMOGO
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5,467 Posts
[ QUOTE ]
Well its kind of hard to answer your question as there are so many turbos to choose from these days. But for a comparison of the output of the van turbo verses a BB turbo I will post the dyno numbers from this past weekend.
Van turbo, stock wheel, ATS housing, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Tony Corn 7.3 PSD 2000 F250 hp-325.8 tq-721.3
BB turbo, big oil, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Don Moody 7.3 PSD 2001 F250 hp-341.7 tq-681.1
Does that help? The "others" are not in the same league with the van and BB turbo. They flow tons more air and require tons more fuel. Not to mention extensive programing. Both of the truck above are running stock AD injectors. Tony's programing would work in almost any 7.3 with stock oil. Don's programming will work in almost any 7.3 with big oil. So thats about as close to an equal comparison as I can give you.
FOMOGO
[/ QUOTE ]
What FOMOGO doesn't post is Tony's truck is a 6-speed and my truck is an auto. IF we were to dyno the same trucks with the same tranny, I would expect the difference between the two be INCREASED by 15-25hp. There was also another 6 speed truck with similar mods to Tony's truck but with a bone stock turbo...his power was 330/713. The torque is also higher on the six speed trucks because the dyno runs are started lower before the torque peak, unlike the autos which have to be started past the torque peak to prevent down shifting.
Hammer
Well its kind of hard to answer your question as there are so many turbos to choose from these days. But for a comparison of the output of the van turbo verses a BB turbo I will post the dyno numbers from this past weekend.
Van turbo, stock wheel, ATS housing, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Tony Corn 7.3 PSD 2000 F250 hp-325.8 tq-721.3
BB turbo, big oil, 4 inch exhaust, intake and Jody Tipton tuning.
Don Moody 7.3 PSD 2001 F250 hp-341.7 tq-681.1
Does that help? The "others" are not in the same league with the van and BB turbo. They flow tons more air and require tons more fuel. Not to mention extensive programing. Both of the truck above are running stock AD injectors. Tony's programing would work in almost any 7.3 with stock oil. Don's programming will work in almost any 7.3 with big oil. So thats about as close to an equal comparison as I can give you.
FOMOGO
[/ QUOTE ]
What FOMOGO doesn't post is Tony's truck is a 6-speed and my truck is an auto. IF we were to dyno the same trucks with the same tranny, I would expect the difference between the two be INCREASED by 15-25hp. There was also another 6 speed truck with similar mods to Tony's truck but with a bone stock turbo...his power was 330/713. The torque is also higher on the six speed trucks because the dyno runs are started lower before the torque peak, unlike the autos which have to be started past the torque peak to prevent down shifting.
Hammer
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