[clvasko]

ok i have an 01 350 4wd dually, about 6 months ago/15000 miles did rt front hub assembly because it locked up, now hub assembly and axle are torn up? 2 shops told me today that the auto locking hubs can intermitently lock by themselves and tear everything up?
is this possible?
thanks

 

[SMF]

If you had asked me a week ago I would have said no. You should be able to drive with your hubs locked, as long as your transfercase is not engaged. But after seeing what happened to the guy across the street for me, I would say it can happen. For a few months one of his hubs has been locking occasionally and turning his front drive line. When he felt it locked he would do the backup thing to disengage it, it took several tries sometimes. A couple days ago his right side wheel bearing went out on him while he was doing 70mph on the highway. His truck tried pull him into the ditch. This was the opposite side from the one that was locking up. He also told me he had been feeling a hard bang from the right side (the one that went out) now and then for about a week. I read in my Ford CD manual that if one hub was locked in, the other could possibly lock itself in because if you are going fast enough it could spin the opposite axle which is what causes the auto hubs to engage. I should say that his truck is a 96 PSD so he does not have vacuum operated hubs. I think that his hub engageing at highway speeds took out his bearings. After he pulled his hubs and bearings I noticed that his auto hubs were packed with grease. As far as I know you are not suppose to grease your auto or manual hubs, except for a little on the bearing that the axle spline rides in. That grease can make them stick.

 

[klhansen]

I don't think there's a real connection between locking hubs and wheel bearing assembly failures. In fact, the spindle bearing that the stub axle runs on inside the wheel hub is NOT turning when the hubs are locked. I run with my hubs (manual) locked all winter, as do many 4x4 drivers here in Alaska, and have done this on many trucks. It's hard on the u-joints, but most of the other parts survive pretty well. The older serviceable wheel bearing styles were harder on the axle stub spindle bearings than the superduty non-serviceable hub/bearing assy, because the axle rotated inside the spindle bearing when in 4x4. With the later hubs, the spindle bearing turns with the wheel, and when in 4x4, the axle and spindle bearing outer race are turning together. It's actually harder on the spindle bearing to run with hubs UNLOCKED.

I think your neighbor's failure was probably just coincidental, although some say that destroyed spindle bearings can cause heat and subsequent failure of the hub/wheel bearing assembly.

 

[SMF]

My neighbor's truck is a 96 F-250 with the twin I beam suspension, it has the older style replaceable bearings with the axle stub going through the spindle. Those hubs are supposed to be locked in with the truck stopped, once locked in you can shift in and out of 4X4 at speed. As the Ford manual states if one is stuck the other could try to lock in while the truck is moving, this can cause damage. The old style auto hub trying to lock in a t highway speed might cause damage, maybe not, but he did feel some banging in that side in the days before the failure. I think his sticking hub trouble was caused by the hubs being packed with grease when the manual says to apply only 1.5 oz of grease to the spring and bearing in the auto hub, not pack it with grease. I guess my point was don't pack auto or manual hubs with grease, follow the manual for lube instuctions.

 

[klhansen]

So did the wheel bearings get torn up by the hub on your neighbor's truck? It sounds to me that the shop guys that clvasko was referring to were saying that's the case on the sealed hub/bearing assemblies. I don't think theres really a connection between locking hubs and sealed bearing failures.

 

[datz510]

I had problems with my driver's side hub locking up for no reason.. I have the auto/manual hubs. After the 2nd time it happened, I just pulled the vacuum line and plugged it up with a bolt in the engine bay. Now they are just normal manual hubs and they work great. Yeah, I have to get out to engage them, but they lock only when I need them to now. I actually like the ability to put it in 2wd low-range for backing up trailers, etc.

 

[clvasko]

ok i have a new question as i sit here with my truck in the shop, holding the auto hub mechanism and looking inside of it i do not see anything happening when i turn the switch back and forth, should i be able to see something moving if it is working correctly at least manually?

thanks

i will prob just do the same thing and plug the vaccuum line and go manual with these, just hate to have them put it back together and then have to take it apart again because the mechanism is no good anyway

 

[mm0015]

I think I can see how an intermittantly locking hub could cause the opposite sides bearings to fail rapidly.

The axles are designed to be run with either both hubs unlocked or both hubs locked. When in a situation with just ONE hub locked, it may be less resistance to spin the spider gears in the differential then to spin the ring and pinion. This would result in the opposite side axle shaft to be spun in reverse. Add to that the wheel is rotating forward and the effective speed on the hub bearings would be double that of the vehicle. So 75MPH would become 150MPH to the hub bearings. Also this would probably be very hard on the spider gears in the differential as they are only intended to rotate when one wheel spin faster then the other (when the truck turns), and most axles do not even have bearings on the spider gears.

 

[GrampyJim]

Interesting there should be so many "locking hub" posts all at one time....

There's this thing called preventive maintenance.... We can blame all sorts of ills on "poor design"... even though PM is recommended.

 

[mm0015]

[ QUOTE ]

There's this thing called preventive maintenance.... We can blame all sorts of ills on "poor design"... even though PM is recommended.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that preventative maintenance probably would have reduced the risk of an intermittantly locking up hub in the first place. However, my point of my post was that I can see how a sitution where one hub is locked and one hub is not could easily cause damage to both the differential and to the opposite side hub / bearings. I don't think this fact is so much a design flaw, that is not the way the axle is designed to operated, and AFAIK no front axle I have ever seen is designed to handle continious use with only one hub locked.

 

[clvasko]

excuse me but my truck is in excellent shape maintenence wise, i have it checked on a regular basis all the time becuase i haul horses all the time,i am VERY picky about my truck and have spent A LOT of money keeping it in tip top shape and anytime a mechanic has said it needed something even a little bit i have done it,this truck is checked on a lift regularly, the ford dealer had the truck twice and could not find anything wrong with it becuase i told them it did not feel right and there was a little grating sound,they did not find it, i have a full time job and on top of that i run a horse rescue by myself, i know that if you do not do it yourself it will not get done right but there is only so much i can take care of and i do not have time to go to powerstroke school, i must pay other people to do this and i do my best to pick reputable mechanics but i still had these problems

what is the maintenance that is supposed to be done to the auto hubs? both front bearings have been replaced in the last 15000 miles, i would assume that when the hubs were out for that they were taken care of??? am i wrong?

 

[David C]

[ QUOTE ]

...it did not feel right and there was a little grating sound...
...what is the maintenance that is supposed to be done to the auto hubs...

[/ QUOTE ]

If the hubs get sluggish from being dirty or gummy grease, one of the hubs alone may be only partially disengaged. If this occurs, the hub's sliding sleeve gear may be rubbing the end of the drive shaft. This will produce a grating, racheting sound. I have seen this several times.

The cure is to frequently lubricate the hubs with ATF fluid... I gave details for how I do this in the other current hub thread (4x4 hub rattle)just a few minutes ago. No hub problems the last five years since I began frequent oil-soaking practice - still on original hubs.

 

[CharlieII]

My superduty has the manual hubs with the manual t-case lever. But my older 97 F-350 has the autos, for now. I can tell you that they are terrible. I have replaced my front t-case yoke 3 times now, and I have to go get another one before I can go wheeling again. This truck is my didicated wheeler as I bought it totalled for 2000 dollars and used my 943 and a chain through the windows of the cab to pull the cab back out until it was good enough to drive. Now it sits on r4 pattern case backhoe tires and wheels. Roughly 50 inches tall and about 23 inches wide. The wheel's 24 inches in diameter and 20 inches wide. The stance and proportions are actually very good looking and it is very stable and low to the ground. It only sits about 3 or 4 inches higher than my superduty with a 6 inch and 36 inch swampers. But it has the darn auto hubs. I can't tell you how many times I have been pulling out of a sick hole or a crazy hillclimb and for some reason it seems like the truck just isn't pulling like it should be, only to look down(no doors) and see that the fronts aren't pulling because the auto hubs just decided I didn't need 4 wheel I guess. So when you're at about 6 grand and pulling 2nd gear at about 30 mph tire speed it is a horrable feeling knowing that those darn hubs are just trying there damndest to come in and break everything you've got. I've tried to let off quickly and jab the brakes to save something, I've tried letting off slowly and smoothly. But what it boils down to is the fact that the freaking auto hubs have cost me about 2 cv sections and 3 t-case yokes. I'm gonna put slugs or blanks or whatever you call em in there so it's always locked. I can't tell you how much I hate these auto hubs on my big truck. I've driven back to the trailer with broken stuff to many times because the hubs were out of the game and unlocked under a full pull with total chaos following. You really like to think you can depend on the truck staying in 4 wheel when you put it there. I've almost rolled the truck several times because of this. Not cool. I guess I need to stop procrastinating and get rolling on the full time hubs. But yes a retarded hub can break all kinds of stuff. If I didn't have a dana 60 in the front I'm sure I would have bought a ring and pinion or at least a stub shaft by now. It's pricey but warn offers a conversion kit, although when it's all said and done the standard warn hubs with the conversion will put you over 200 dollars. I'd get em off of there. They've caused me nothing but trouble. This is the only truck I've got that has em. It was kind of cool not to have to get out of the truck to lock em when it was on 38's, but gettting out at the trailhead is a lot cooler than trying to figure out how you're gonna get a fullsize on 50's out of a creek bed the size of a cj-7 with no front end. They're just not a team player. They do what they want, not what's right for the situation. They will sabotage any good truck, and make you look like the biggest idiot, like you are just killing the poor thing and throwing it in 4-wheel at 6 grand. I hate them. Period. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[barryf350]

I need your info on the 4x4 hub lubrication. I have an 02 and the maintenance schedule says lube 4x4 front hub needle bearings. Any help appreciated. Could not get the 4x4 hub rattle post you mentioned. thanks

 

[hopalong1]

BarryF350

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