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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have been intrigued by the everlasting Cam Position Sensor issues since replacing one on a friend’s truck in a parking lot, due to a no start situation after driving fine only minutes before.

When I bought by ’02 the first thing I did was order a spare CPS and throw it in the glove box like so many other 7.3 owners. Over the years I have read many posts and looked at the data the posters provided to make conclusions. Well the other day I decided to order one of the new Dark Blue CPS to see if it would make a difference.

I have noticed a slight miss in the idle of my truck since the dealer put in the grey “recall” CPS. I can’t complain too much, since it seems to run fine everywhere else and my wife will tell you there is nothing wrong at idle, even if I “show” her the feeling of the miss that I feel. I have pondered throwing in the spare Black CPS, but I have also read where some guys are getting less MPG on the black one versus the Grey one.

So when my new Dark Blue CPS arrived in the mail from Tousley Ford (great deal by the way and fast shipping) I decided to break out the AutoEnginuity for some testing of Perdels and Cylinder Contribution Tests (CCT). I decided to run everything in the stock setting on my DP-Tuner to keep it as close to real as possible. Truck was warmed up to get the Engine Oil Temp to spec where Perdels could be read.

CPS Information:
Black CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-A
Grey CPS P/N: F7TZ-12K073-B
Dark Blue CPS P/N: F4TZ-12K073-C







Black CPS is marked as: 1825899
Grey CPS is marked as: 1876735C91
Dark Blue CPS is marked as: 1876736C91

One thing I did notice about the three different sensors is the body that goes inside the block is much larger on the original Black CPS compared to the two newer versions. Does this have something to do with why they read differently? The Black one has a diameter of 0.892” while the Grey and Dark Blue have a diameter of 0.720”. Maybe nothing since it is just a plastic case, but it did make me think it could have something to do with it.






Here is the data from the Perdels tests:










The Black CPS brought Cylinder 3 and 8 down to a respectable level. Idle was very smooth and CCT passed with no codes. Start took less time than normal although the engine was warmed up.

The Grey CPS performed the same as I have seen in other posts. Cylinder 3 was higher than most and Cylinder 8 was above the 5% limit which appears to make the CCT fail. The CCT test did fail and gave me P0284 Cylinder 8 Injector Circuit Contribution / Balance Fault. Idle seemed to be smooth but if I pay close attention and lean on the door sill, I can feel the slight miss. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up

The Dark Blue CPS surprised me! The Perdels for Cylinder # 3 were much higher than the Black CPS and even higher than the Grey CPS. Cylinder #8 was slightly less than the Grey CPS reading. The CCT test failed on Cylinder #3 & #8 with codes P0269 & P0284. Appeared to crank a second or two longer than the Black CPS, but nothing unusual and engine was warmed up.

I was a little confused why the Dark Blue CPS (which is claimed to be the “new better version”) did a little better on cylinder #8 but far worse on Cylinder #3. The truck has a much more noticeable miss at idle now too. I will leave it in for a few weeks to see if it performs any differently or has any noticeable effect of fuel mileage.

I guess I would be curious to have a batch of CPS, and then I could run each one to see if it is a manufacturing issue or a design issue. I imagine I will end up pulling out the Dark Blue CPS and install the Black CPS. If I see my mileage drop way down I will probably drop in the Grey CPS again as it idles much more smoothly.



I'm sure every truck will perform a little differently, but this is what I came up with. I did pull various other data during these tests but limited the Perdels and CCT tests as the purpose of this post.
 

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Thanks for posting up this information. I got one of the new blue cps from Ford and seems to running nice and smooth at idle. I don't have AE to do any testing. Was the black c99 from international? I had one on my truck but did not seem to go in and out very easily. I guess because the diameter is slightly bigger.http://dieselorings.com/index.php?page=details&prod=127&cat=23&group=6
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My spare Black CPS was bought off of ebay several years back. It came in the original Ford packaging. If I remember correct, I paid something like $45 for it back then. The going price then was $145 at the stealer.

The Black CPS was a slight bit harder to install and remove compared to the other two. Not hard but did require a better grip.
 

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interesting....

i just got my new blue one in the mail the other day, just waiting to install it to see what happens
 

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Woodnthings8,
I have wanted to try this:
The CPS has that metal bracket that holds it from turning in the hole it is mounted in. Almost like it is holding it in there at a certain angle.
Has rotating the CPS a few degrees +/- then running a Cylinder contribution test ever been tried?
Have always wondered if that would change anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Woodnthings8,
I have wanted to try this:
The CPS has that metal bracket that holds it from turning in the hole it is mounted in. Almost like it is holding it in there at a certain angle.
Has rotating the CPS a few degrees +/- then running a Cylinder contribution test ever been tried?
Have always wondered if that would change anything.

Don't know, but I imagine since it is a magnet in the end it should not matter. The sensor "reads" the gaps in the timing sensor disc. You may be able to rotate it a degree or two with the hole provided in the bracket. I suppose you could open the hole and make it move more. I just don't think it would matter much......but I could easily be wrong!
 

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For what it's worth...

Put the new dark blue/gray CPS in tonight and the idle is much smoother, i the truck doesn't vibrate nearly as much as it did before at idle. haven't had a chance to drive it yet. Truck sounds alot quieter too.

been reading up on alot of these threads and sounds like no matter the color its pretty hit and miss?!?
 

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The truck does idle and run quieter, however, on a long trip of 2000 miles I definitely l lost a mile per gallon.
 

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So are we fighting over the last few blacks or is there still a supply of them?
 

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drove into work this morning and the motor was a lot quieter and idled alot better at traffic lights. I also had somewhat of a surging idle at a stop and that did not appear this morning. Seems to be runnin better but i'm not holding my breath
 

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So are we fighting over the last few blacks or is there still a supply of them?
There can't be much of a supply out there. I know Ford won't sell any if they have any left because of the liability with the recall and all. And I have tried a few IH's, and none of them have them. In fact, one of the IH dealers did a national stock check for them and came back with nothing. I found one in original Ford packaging a few months ago, but was surprised to see that Guzzle was selling them now, so I put in an order yesterday.:icon_wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I ran the truck about 30 miles tonight with the Dark Blue CPS. It did start up quicker than the Grey one had in the past. It also seemed to idle smoother tonight than it did over the weekend. I didn't feel the noticeable miss like I did previously.

I will re-run the Perdels this weekend to see if has changed any ( which I doubt ).
 

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I just finished my first tank of fuel with the new dark blue installed. Average this tank was 19.3 which isn't significantly different from my 19 MPG avg before. But, it is peppier and idles smoother.
 

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would be interesting to see what the old blue CPS would do in your tests. If I remember correctly, it was for the 466. I ran one for many miles and just took it out for a spare. Still behind the seat in a box. I heard on stock motors there was a improvement in idle quality, noise, and mileage. Again, I ran it for 20k miles or so, but then took it out because I have a DP Tune so I really didn't know what I am messing with. I think somebody, maybe even Jody did some testing on this. It did retard things a bit if I remember.

I just thought it would be cool to see how that old blue CPS would do in your tests.

Thanks for the info and graphs. Very intersting!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I just thought it would be cool to see how that old blue CPS would do in your tests.

Well if you don't mind not having a spare, You could ship it to me, I will test it out and ship it back within a week or so (depending on my weekend work schedule) I will pay for the return shipping.

Then I will post the results in a similar format.

Just PM me if your interested.
 

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As another stated these CPS seem iffy altogether. I wonder if the graphed numbers hold true for a larger sample, would all dark blue or black, gray etc test the same? I am using the old IH 1821720C99 with a spare in the box and wonder how that one would test out. Another here stated that an "old black one" caused a drop in MPG. Which PN was that?
 

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I recently bought an old stock black CPS and installed it yesterday and am really surprised at the difference over the newer gray cps. I never had the truck with a black one in before, the recall was done just before i bought it.

The engine seems to idle and run smoother. I took the truck out of town on a 3 hr drive and could swear that i am getting slightly better fuel mileage too. I never worked out what the mileage is for either though so i am only speculating.

I hooked up AE during and after the drive and it seems the perdel numbers and the actual torque convertor slip numbers seem to indicate the engine is actually happier with the black cps.
Here's the numbers for both the black and gray cps's (i have two gray units and both are close to the same in the perdel numbers) The engine is stock and was fully warmed up.


gray - 0.6 - 0.0 - 1.6 - 0.4 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 3.9
black - 0.4 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.0 - 0.7

torque convertor slip actual (not loaded , just cruising down the hiway at 60-70 mph)
gray 0 - 12 rpm's
black 0 - 4 rpm's
 

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Thanks for doing this. I've been waiting to see someone run the numbers on this new part. I've ran the numbers on gray vs. black and with all the talk about this even newer CPS that so many seem to be a fan of, I was surprised to see how high #3 was, and how little #8 improved.
 

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I also have the newest dark blue cps but have not tried it yet.
Can the O-ring be used again after pulling the sensor out or is it a one shot deal with them?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The original black one is about .010" longer than the grey one. By the CPS being .010" longer it reduces the air gap at the cam disc. Maybe that has something to do with it. I think I will build a .010" shim and install the black CPS. Then I will see if the PERDELS test does anything different.

I can't imagine the length is the only thing different between the black, grey, & dark blue. I am sure it has to do with the circuitry inside that retards or advances the signal to the PCM. If I decide to dig into it more I will hook up my breakout box and take readings off of the circuits associated with the CPS. I will have to read more on exactly how the CPS signal is processed by the PCM. This will help me set-up AE and gather to correct parameters to get the true effect by each one.
 
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