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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Code 62 does not mean transmission 4/3 circuit malfunction. It means that the converter is not locked when the PCM commands it to be locked.

If that is the only code you have it points to a mechanical problem, not an electrical problem. It could be a bad converter, a stuck torque converter clutch control valve (this valve is located in the pump body,) or a bad seal on the input shaft.
I should also mention that the night the no lockup condition started, when I got home after driving it the 7 miles back, there was a long fluid trail and a puddle under my truck. 2 quarts were lost. The temperature outside was like 50 degrees. I do know that the trans gets extra hot when the converter isn't locking up. So I know it leaked cause of that, not the ambient air temp being too hot. So anyway, it hasn't leaked again since that night. I added back the 2 quarts it lost and It hasn't Leaked any back out. I have driven it maybe a total of 6 miles, that's only been short 1 mile drives to test if what I did fixed the problem though. So the seal is at least still working at low transmission temperatures.
 

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The torque converter hub seal is the seal that is causing the fluid to come out of the transmission. It won't cause no lockup. The seals that can prevent lockup are on the input shaft inside of the torque converter. All of those seals require the trans to come out and the torque converter removed from the transmission to replace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
The torque converter hub seal is the seal that is causing the fluid to come out of the transmission. It won't cause no lockup. The seals that can prevent lockup are on the input shaft inside of the torque converter. All of those seals require the trans to come out and the torque converter removed from the transmission to replace.
Still haven't solved this. I took it to a trans shop, where unfortunately it has just been sitting... I called today to get a status update and was told "it's going on the lift tomorrow. They're gonna do a neutral safety switch on it". Could that even be a potential problem? I figured someone would have mentioned that here already if it was a possibility.

I told the shop everything I had done/tested and confirmed so far. I don't know what testing/diagnostics they have done to come up with that as a potential solution. I don't want them wasting time and money throwing parts at it though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
The torque converter hub seal is the seal that is causing the fluid to come out of the transmission. It won't cause no lockup. The seals that can prevent lockup are on the input shaft inside of the torque converter. All of those seals require the trans to come out and the torque converter removed from the transmission to replace.
So it sounds like I need to replace the torque converter. Is there anything else I should replace/give attention to while I'm doing this?

You mentioned in a earlier comment it could be a stuck tcc control valve. Is this in/apart of the torque converter and would be therefor being replaced if I did the whole torque converter?
 

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No, the valve is in the pump body, not in the torque converter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
No, the valve is in the pump body, not in the torque converter.
I see the difference in what's what and what's where now. I did some video watching.

So let me tell you where I'm at now.

I hadn't ruled out whether or not it was the solenoid pack yet, so today I put 12v to the wire (purple with yellow stripe if I'm not mistaken) and I could hear a click happening inside the pan. If I can hear that click, that means the solenoid works, correct?

Tomorrow I'm going to rig a test light to that wire so I can see if it is being commanded to engage that solenoid. If it is working and commanding that solenoids engagement, it would definitely have to be the tc, tcc control valve, or the seal. Right?

Also, I can drive it around under normal conditions and not get a blinking off light on the gear selector. I'm not sure what would happen if I romped on it, but driving around not exceeding 45mph in 4th gear, it isn't sending a code. Does that tell you anything?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
No, the valve is in the pump body, not in the torque converter.
Ok so I did a test light on the circuit. What I did was stripped a little section of insulation off of the purple wire with the yellow stripe and hooked an alligator clamp to it. I ran that to one lead of a random led light. Then I hooked another wire via alligator clip to a spot on the frame (a good bare metal clean spot) and ran that to the other lead of the led light.

As soon as I turn the key on, the light lights up and stays lit. It stayed lit through startup and a short test drive. I was assuming the circuit only got power when the pcm detected and commanded the torque converter to lockup? Should this wire have 12 volts all the time? Or did I not do something right with my test light setup? Thanks in advance!
 

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That wire should be grounded when the PCM wants the converter applied. It's feeding power through the solenoid to power your light. Instead of putting the other lead from the light to ground, attach it to power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
That wire should be grounded when the PCM wants the converter applied. It's feeding power through the solenoid to power your light. Instead of putting the other lead from the light to ground, attach it to power.
Ok, so I got the test light hooked up correctly and I was getting signal from the pcm to to engage the torque converter. So, it is definitely internal.

So I finally got around to dropping the transmission today! Boy is that a hassle in the gravel driveway....

Anyway, is there anything I can do to test to see if it's the torque converter itself? Also, does anything inside here look funky? I read posts before where a guy said the input shaft seal was completely gone. I don't know where that seal should be, so from the pictures can you tell if it's there or not?

Also, there is a smaller shaft that slides in and out of the bigger shaft freely. Should there be a seal between those two? I'm able to pull the smaller shaft out completely. Is that supposed to be like that?

I'm a total rookie here, as I have never done or seen any of this before, so please bear with me on my lack of knowledge about what's what and what should be here or there. Thanks!
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The small shaft can come out. There should be seals in there, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
The small shaft can come out. There should be seals in there, too.
What about answers to all the other questions I asked in my last post? I know you're probably busy in life and I know you answer/respond to alot of people problems on here and other forums. So if you have time that you could answer the rest of the questions I asked and advise me what I can do to test different things and what to look for, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
 

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Anyway, is there anything I can do to test to see if it's the torque converter itself?
Look at the front face of the converter, the end that faces the engine. Is it blued? If so, it's been slipping and needs to be replaced. Any further checking involves cutting the converter open.

Also, does anything inside here look funky? I read posts before where a guy said the input shaft seal was completely gone. I don't know where that seal should be, so from the pictures can you tell if it's there or not?
Nothing in the photos looks bad. There are seals on the small shaft that can't be seen with the shaft in place.

Also, there is a smaller shaft that slides in and out of the bigger shaft freely. Should there be a seal between those two? I'm able to pull the smaller shaft out completely. Is that supposed to be like that?
Yes, there are seals on the smaller shaft. And yes, it should pull out like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Look at the front face of the converter, the end that faces the engine. Is it blued? If so, it's been slipping and needs to be replaced. Any further checking involves cutting the converter open.


Nothing in the photos looks bad. There are seals on the small shaft that can't be seen with the shaft in place.


Yes, there are seals on the smaller shaft. And yes, it should pull out like that.
The seals on the shaft, where are they? I didn't see anything inside the bore the shaft slides through. I also don't see anywhere on the shaft a seal would sit?

Does the input shaft seal here look alright?
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Is whatever these rings are supposed to have those slits in them?
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This bearing was just sitting loosely in the deepest point of the transmission you can see in the picture. Is that normal?
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All three valves move freely without any sticky feeling to them. The circled valves spring is much less stiff than the other two. Is that normal? It still has spring pressure for sure though, it isn't loose at all, just less tension.
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These chunks of rust (at least I believe it's rust. Could be something else, but they're hard) we're sitting in that cavity inside the pump. No idea where they're from, but could that be a problem? Also lastly, one of the valves (I don't remember which one, but it wasn't the smaller valve in the middle) had a small piece of rust in the bottom that wouldn't allow the metal piece of the valve touch down all the way to wear it comes in contact with the pump. It was a very slender peice, so it was probly like 1/100th of an inch from going down all the way.
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I also sent you a message Mark. Just a heads up!
 

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The seals on the shaft, where are they? I didn't see anything inside the bore the shaft slides through. I also don't see anywhere on the shaft a seal would sit?

Does the input shaft seal here look alright?
View attachment 160495
That is the torque converter hub seal. It has nothing to do with lockup. I can't see the sealing end in this photo, but if it were bad the converter would still lock, but it would leak fluid all over the ground.


Is whatever these rings are supposed to have those slits in them?
View attachment 160496
Yes, they should have the slits. That is how you get the seals on the shaft. These are the seals that make the lockup work.
All three valves move freely without any sticky feeling to them. The circled valves spring is much less stiff than the other two. Is that normal? It still has spring pressure for sure though, it isn't loose at all, just less tension.
View attachment 160499
I don't have a diagram, nor a good enough memory to remember which valve is which. I haven't been inside an E4OD in this century.

These chunks of rust (at least I believe it's rust. Could be something else, but they're hard) we're sitting in that cavity inside the pump. No idea where they're from, but could that be a problem?
Probably not.
Also lastly, one of the valves (I don't remember which one, but it wasn't the smaller valve in the middle) had a small piece of rust in the bottom that wouldn't allow the metal piece of the valve touch down all the way to wear it comes in contact with the pump. It was a very slender peice, so it was probly like 1/100th of an inch from going down all the way.
That could have had the valve stuck before you took the pump out. If it was the right valve it might have been the problem.

The problem could also be a failed torque converter. The only way to know if the converter had an internal failure is to cut it open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
That is the torque converter hub seal. It has nothing to do with lockup. I can't see the sealing end in this photo, but if it were bad the converter would still lock, but it would leak fluid all over the ground.



Yes, they should have the slits. That is how you get the seals on the shaft. These are the seals that make the lockup work.
I don't have a diagram, nor a good enough memory to remember which valve is which. I haven't been inside an E4OD in this century.


Probably not.

That could have had the valve stuck before you took the pump out. If it was the right valve it might have been the problem.

The problem could also be a failed torque converter. The only way to know if the converter had an internal failure is to cut it open.
Thank you for all the replies! They were very helpful!

So, I haven't cut the torque converter open yet. I'd like to rule other things out first before I do that. Is there a way to bench test the pump? Or is it basically if the valves move, it works? And could the chunks of rust that were inside the pump been from something internal of the torque converter?

Also, where is the input shaft seal you had mentioned? What does it look like? Searching "e4od input shaft seal" is not providing me anything conclusive on what this seal looks like.
 

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I think he means this one:

(click this text)


The NEXT page from that one shows what the snout of that torque converter looked like before I polished it.
 

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The rings that you asked about the slits are the input shaft seals.
 
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