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Brake and ABS light on, no converter lockup

5K views 39 replies 5 participants last post by  Mark Kovalsky 
#1 ·
So to start, I have a 1993 f250. It's an automatic with the e4od. 117k miles. Rebuilt trans (first owner had it rebuilt one time several years ago, I don't recall what for). It's bone stock minus true dual straight pipe exhaust.

So the other day when I started my truck, I had the brake light and the abs light come on out of nowhere. The previous drive in the truck before this start I did not have any problems. I thought maybe it was just a fluke weird thing that didn't mean anything as I hadn't had any problems, so I drove to where I had to go. I didn't experience any problems or anything weird/unusual. When I went to leave where I went, when I started it up, the lights had gone out. I thought "cool"! It was just a dumb fluke thing. The ride home I was pulling a trailer. As soon as I got going highway speeds, I noticed my rpms were higher than usual. So going 60 I let off the throttle in hopes it'd lock the converter, it didn't. So I floored it hoping it would downshift, then rehit top gear then lock the converter. It didn't. Then the "off" light for turning overdrive off on the gear shifter started blinking. Luckily I was only 8 miles from home, so I just drove it there.

So, like anyone, I went to Google to do some digging as to what all these lights meant. I got that it could be a host of things. I went and bought an obd1 reader and read my KOEO codes and got a throttle position sensor code. I thought "awesome! Thats gotta be it" since I had read that could cause my symptoms. So I tested the sensor and it tested good (signal going to and from the connector and voltage range). So I figured I'd go and buy a new sensor anyway. I went and bought a new sensor replaced it and it did nothing.. I adjusted it within the 1.2v and 4.5v parameters and it did nothing. I checked the codes again and still got a tps code even though it was a new sensor.

I read that vss could be the cause of my symptoms as well. I don't have any other vss symptoms though (speedo works fine, it isn't jumpy or faulty, and i dont have cruise so that's not a factor). Do vss's either work or not? Can a vss work for one aspect of its job but not work for the other? Or do they break and everything it's responsible for breaks?

My master cylinder is full, it isn't a low fluid issue. There is nothing weird or off with the brakes. It brakes and stops without issue as it always has.

I don't have any led bulbs to goof things up. I also do not have a 3rd brake light (which I have read being the culprit on others), mine just has a cargo light.

My brake light bulbs are functional (no broken filaments) and the sockets appear fine as well. I will note on this topic though, that I have fast blink on both side blinkers, but they have been blinking fast for over a year, so I don't think it's related.

I checked all related fuses, and none of them are blown. I checked every fuse for the heck of it too, and I didn't have any fuses blown at all.

Also, I read disconnecting the batteries and letting it sit a while would reset the computer. So I did that and it stopped the "od off" light blinking. But the brake and abs lights remained.

Could I simply have a faulty torque converter and those lights are letting me know that? Is an e4od designed to give brake related lights when the torque converter is messed up?

I'm super at a loss here.. I'm not sure what else to do or check. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
The first thing to check for both lights on at the same time is the fluid level circuit. If the level is good, make sure the float is up. If so, make sure the switch is NOT closed. Simply unplugging it with the key in RUN is a valid test. If both lights go off, the switch is the problem.

(click this text)
 
#4 ·
The first thing to check for both lights on at the same time is the fluid level circuit. If the level is good, make sure the float is up. If so, make sure the switch is NOT closed. Simply unplugging it with the key in RUN is a valid test. If both lights go off, the switch is the problem.

(click this text)
I unplugged it and just the brake light went off.
 
#8 ·
#6 ·
First off, what codes did you get?

Second, when you ran the key on engine off test did you hold the accelerator on the floor while the test was running? If you didn't, you will get a TPS code. It doesn't mean the TPS is bad, it means you didn't run the test correctly.
 
#7 ·
Ahhh thats crazy. The first time I ran the test, I did not. The second time I did it (after reading the instructions) I did. So I wonder if the trouble code was stored in there the second time I did it cause I did it wrong the first time? That explains why my tps tested good.
 
#10 ·
So to start, I have a 1993 f250. It's an automatic with the e4od. 117k miles. Rebuilt trans (first owner had it rebuilt one time several years ago, I don't recall what for). It's bone stock minus true dual straight pipe exhaust.

So the other day when I started my truck, I had the brake light and the abs light come on out of nowhere. The previous drive in the truck before this start I did not have any problems. I thought maybe it was just a fluke weird thing that didn't mean anything as I hadn't had any problems, so I drove to where I had to go. I didn't experience any problems or anything weird/unusual. When I went to leave where I went, when I started it up, the lights had gone out. I thought "cool"! It was just a dumb fluke thing. The ride home I was pulling a trailer. As soon as I got going highway speeds, I noticed my rpms were higher than usual. So going 60 I let off the throttle in hopes it'd lock the converter, it didn't. So I floored it hoping it would downshift, then rehit top gear then lock the converter. It didn't. Then the "off" light for turning overdrive off on the gear shifter started blinking. Luckily I was only 8 miles from home, so I just drove it there.

So, like anyone, I went to Google to do some digging as to what all these lights meant. I got that it could be a host of things. I went and bought an obd1 reader and read my KOEO codes and got a throttle position sensor code. I thought "awesome! Thats gotta be it" since I had read that could cause my symptoms. So I tested the sensor and it tested good (signal going to and from the connector and voltage range). So I figured I'd go and buy a new sensor anyway. I went and bought a new sensor replaced it and it did nothing.. I adjusted it within the 1.2v and 4.5v parameters and it did nothing. I checked the codes again and still got a tps code even though it was a new sensor.

I read that vss could be the cause of my symptoms as well. I don't have any other vss symptoms though (speedo works fine, it isn't jumpy or faulty, and i dont have cruise so that's not a factor). Do vss's either work or not? Can a vss work for one aspect of its job but not work for the other? Or do they break and everything it's responsible for breaks?

My master cylinder is full, it isn't a low fluid issue. There is nothing weird or off with the brakes. It brakes and stops without issue as it always has.

I don't have any led bulbs to goof things up. I also do not have a 3rd brake light (which I have read being the culprit on others), mine just has a cargo light.

My brake light bulbs are functional (no broken filaments) and the sockets appear fine as well. I will note on this topic though, that I have fast blink on both side blinkers, but they have been blinking fast for over a year, so I don't think it's related.

I checked all related fuses, and none of them are blown. I checked every fuse for the heck of it too, and I didn't have any fuses blown at all.

Also, I read disconnecting the batteries and letting it sit a while would reset the computer. So I did that and it stopped the "od off" light blinking. But the brake and abs lights remained.

Could I simply have a faulty torque converter and those lights are letting me know that? Is an e4od designed to give brake related lights when the torque converter is messed up?

I'm super at a loss here.. I'm not sure what else to do or check. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Just reading .....U say We can Use a Code Reader on Out older idiot light flashing 1993 Ford ? I have same Motor n Trans in my E350 ..well I think. Its a 7.3 idi with same Trans as U described. I didn't think there is a Throttle positioning sensor because of Gas pedal cable straight to injection pump ...boy I wish this was as Accessible as a Truck ......Anyway I have had the Flashing Red OD light on Trans and a Trans shop said like yours a Throttle Positioning Sensor ...if So where is it located. I have had and serviced this truck and learned return lines ..glow plug relays and Injector seals all fixed by me .....I do have an Occasional Sticky Brake Pedal that worries me ? Anyway Trans has a Banks Shift Module and hits 2nd for towing. I been drivin it like this for 4 1/2 years like this with Trans light flashin....I don't tow but this Van has had a Banks Sidewinder Package for OG owner lake towing boat im sure ...got it with 180.000 now I have 240.00 on it. ....Any help appreciated...can I buy a Code Reader for this model ? And sticky Brakes ? Air pump for vacuum been replaced before
 
#13 ·
#16 ·
Code 62 does not mean transmission 4/3 circuit malfunction. It means that the converter is not locked when the PCM commands it to be locked.

If that is the only code you have it points to a mechanical problem, not an electrical problem. It could be a bad converter, a stuck torque converter clutch control valve (this valve is located in the pump body,) or a bad seal on the input shaft.
 
#18 ·
No, the solenoid is the solenoid. The control valve is located inside the pump body and is not the solenoid.

The best way to test the solenoid is to see if any codes set that point to the solenoid. Other than that, you could put 12 volts across it and listen for the armature to move.
 
#20 ·
So it just occurred to me to mention this! My truck for the last three years leaks trans fluid out of that tube that comes off of the bottom of it only during the summer months. I assume it leaks when it reaches a certain temperature that is only achievable with a certain ambient air temperature. Someone told me it needs a bigger trans cooler, someone else told me it needed a seal (I don't remember what seal), and someone else told me to clean a vent tube (not even sure if that exists). Being cheap and lazy, I never did anything, I just stopped using it on days that were above 80 degrees. I don't know why, but I decided that was a good number haha. When it would leak, it would leak quite a bit. There would be long trails (hundreds of feet long) leading to the point where I stopped, where it would then leave a puddle. Id always just add fluid to compensate what was lost, which was never more than 3 quarts (that I can recall).

So you mentioned an input shaft seal, could this be the same seal that the above person stated would be causing my leak from that tube? If so, could this seal finally have broken enough to be causing the no lockup situation?
 
#19 ·
#22 ·
The torque converter hub seal is the seal that is causing the fluid to come out of the transmission. It won't cause no lockup. The seals that can prevent lockup are on the input shaft inside of the torque converter. All of those seals require the trans to come out and the torque converter removed from the transmission to replace.
 
#23 ·
Still haven't solved this. I took it to a trans shop, where unfortunately it has just been sitting... I called today to get a status update and was told "it's going on the lift tomorrow. They're gonna do a neutral safety switch on it". Could that even be a potential problem? I figured someone would have mentioned that here already if it was a possibility.

I told the shop everything I had done/tested and confirmed so far. I don't know what testing/diagnostics they have done to come up with that as a potential solution. I don't want them wasting time and money throwing parts at it though.
 
#26 ·
I see the difference in what's what and what's where now. I did some video watching.

So let me tell you where I'm at now.

I hadn't ruled out whether or not it was the solenoid pack yet, so today I put 12v to the wire (purple with yellow stripe if I'm not mistaken) and I could hear a click happening inside the pan. If I can hear that click, that means the solenoid works, correct?

Tomorrow I'm going to rig a test light to that wire so I can see if it is being commanded to engage that solenoid. If it is working and commanding that solenoids engagement, it would definitely have to be the tc, tcc control valve, or the seal. Right?

Also, I can drive it around under normal conditions and not get a blinking off light on the gear selector. I'm not sure what would happen if I romped on it, but driving around not exceeding 45mph in 4th gear, it isn't sending a code. Does that tell you anything?

Thanks!
 
#28 ·
That wire should be grounded when the PCM wants the converter applied. It's feeding power through the solenoid to power your light. Instead of putting the other lead from the light to ground, attach it to power.
 
#29 ·
Ok, so I got the test light hooked up correctly and I was getting signal from the pcm to to engage the torque converter. So, it is definitely internal.

So I finally got around to dropping the transmission today! Boy is that a hassle in the gravel driveway....

Anyway, is there anything I can do to test to see if it's the torque converter itself? Also, does anything inside here look funky? I read posts before where a guy said the input shaft seal was completely gone. I don't know where that seal should be, so from the pictures can you tell if it's there or not?

Also, there is a smaller shaft that slides in and out of the bigger shaft freely. Should there be a seal between those two? I'm able to pull the smaller shaft out completely. Is that supposed to be like that?

I'm a total rookie here, as I have never done or seen any of this before, so please bear with me on my lack of knowledge about what's what and what should be here or there. Thanks!
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#31 ·
What about answers to all the other questions I asked in my last post? I know you're probably busy in life and I know you answer/respond to alot of people problems on here and other forums. So if you have time that you could answer the rest of the questions I asked and advise me what I can do to test different things and what to look for, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
 
#37 ·
I think he means this one:

(click this text)


The NEXT page from that one shows what the snout of that torque converter looked like before I polished it.
 
#39 ·
Alright so, update! I found a complete trans near me for about the cost of a new pump and converter. I figured shoot, for the same price I might as well have this then my old as a spare. Ended up being a bad idea... I installed it and it doesn't work right either...

This new trans came out of a 1993 with 137k miles. It has a remanufactured converter with unknown miles. Any history of the trans is also unknown. The guy that sold it to me said it worked with no problems. He sent me several videos of him driving the truck before it was pulled, but not enough apparently.. so here's what it's doing.

I finished the install and took it for a test drive. When you take off in D, it feels like when you try to take of in a manual vehicle in like 2nd or 3rd gear. It goes nowhere, it has no power, and takes a while to get to speed. So I take it down the road just to see what it does. It shifts first at around 20mph, then again at like 38ish mph, then again at like 55ish. I'm not sure what shift is what or what is the tc lockup, but I only feel three events of something when it's supposed to be four feelable events, correct? Is the trans missing a gear?

So, I get done the short test ride, and check the fluid since it's at operating temp at that point. It had way too much, I didn't realize the trans had so much fluid in it still when I got it. So I thought maybe the above symptoms were due to too much fluid. So I drained it to the right level and went for another ride, same thing. So I don't know what's going on. Also, when I select 1 instead of D, it takes off like it should. It feels like normal. But when I move it from 1 to 2, I don't get a shift. Whatever gear it's in when 1 is selected, it never shifts out of it. At 40ish mph I shifted from 2 to D, and it shifted.

Lastly, the only thing I saw out of the ordinary during the install was one of the prongs of the neutral safety switch connector was bent down. I bent it back up. I don't remember which one. When I connected the harness side to the switch, if it bent it back down again, could that cause these problems? I didn't check it out of frustration and the desire to go home after a long day of trans install then failed test ride.

Thanks in advance!
 
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