The Diesel Stop banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If you own, operate, use, register, sit in, touch, sniff, think about, or happen to see an F-450 or F-550 drive down the road in the State of California, the following information may be of some interest to you.

__________

NEWLY Edited Note: After originally posting this, I went to Sacramento to attend a 4 hour training session in the EPA building taught by the actual CARB bureaucrats who actually dream up, draft and deliver these new diesel retrofit or retire regulations. I wanted to get the info straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

After learning a ton about the specific reporting and compliance requirements of commercial fleets, I went up to the CARB leaders and specifically asked about the requirements of recreational vehicle folks who simply bought an F-450 or F-550 to be able to tow and handle their fifth wheel or race car trailer or gooseneck horse trailer safely.

They said it is not their intent to go after this type of usage, and pointed me to the first and second pages of their dog eared play book, and they forwarded a pdf file of the same to the email address I gave them on the spot.

According to the "FINAL REGULATION ORDER" Division 3, Chapter 1, Section 2025, Paragraph (c) Subparagraph (12) "Exemptions: This regulation does not apply to: Trucks with a GVWR of 19,500 or less with a pick-up bed used exclusively for personal, non-commercial, or non-governmental use."

So if you have an F-450 pick up or an F-550 with a pick-up bed conversion such as what Manning, Fontaine, Royal, UBW, and others have made... and this heavy hauling pickup is used exclusively for personal use and not for trade or commerce, then that vehicle falls under the exemption cited above.

__________


If the F-450/550 has a flat bed or stake bed or other commerically oriented body that would also typically require it to stop at the scales, then read on:


1. Trucks over 14,000 lbs. GVWR are exempt from the biennial smog checks.

2. Trucks over 14.000 lbs. GVWR are required to be brought into compliance with 2010 level emissions eventually.

3. Trucks over 26,000 lbs. GVWR are also subject to annual fleet reporting requirements, meeting a compliance schedule, or phase in of retrofits if elected, or early retirement.

4. Trucks between 14K and 26K do not have to be reported, and have a longer period of time before retrofitting or retirement is mandated. HOWEVER....

5. Fleets that have a mix of trucks both over and under 26K GVWR need to report ALL trucks in their fleets that are over 14K if electing to not follow the CARB compliance schedule STRICTLY and instead want to use the more lenient phase in option schedules.

6. There are many more specifics to the CARB requirements that this post is not intended to address. Please refer to the CARB website f you have a truck over 26K GVWR (and there is no F-450 or 550 that falls in that category, as even the heaviest duty F-550 is still only 19.5K GVWR, regardless of gross COMBINED rating).

7. There is no requirement to retrofit F-450/550s with aftertreatment particulate matter filter systems.

8. Heavier trucks (over 26k GVWR) must be retrofitted with particulate matter filter systems by deadlines that loom in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2017. However, these deadlines do not apply to F-450/550 medium duty trucks between 14K and 26K GVWR.

9. The compliance strategies specified by the CARB are the same for all F-450s and F-550s from 1998 through 2009. The DEADLINE for compliance DIFFERS, but the strategy is the same. CARB has four options for compliance in heavier duty trucks, but for vehicles under 26K GVWR, the options all boil down to one: Replacement with a 2010 model year or newer engine by a specified date. (Date chart below).


1998 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2018
1999 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2019
2000 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2001 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2002 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2003 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2004 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2021
2005 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2021
2006 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2021
2007 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2023
2008 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2023
2009 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2023
2010 - Have a cigar! You are already in compliance.


Note that the deadline is the same for engine model years 2000-2003 (2020), and the same for model years 2004-2006 (2021), and the same for model years 2007-2009 (2023).

Also note that no differentiation is made for the 2003 model year that had both the 7.3L as well as the 6.0L engine.

Note further that the deadline is the same for the 2007 6.0L engine, versus the newer 2008 6.4L engine.

And fnally note that the 2010 6.4L engine gets a pass, while not substantially different than the 2008 and 2009 engines that are forced to be retrofitted (with what? The same engine?) in 2023.

Obviously, if you are subject to these regulations, you need to do your own due diligence in determing how to comply. I'm not an expert, I am not liable for your reliance on this information. I posted what I researched online, as well as at what I learned in the CARB training school, in the spirit of sharing tidbits and fostering open helpful discussion with other members who are similarly situated.

Reference: "FINAL REGULATION ORDER" As provided by CARB on December 29, 2011

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/documents/TBFinalReg.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,686 Posts
Sure stinks to be in California:icon_rolleyes:. Here's the T.O.M. route for CA smog compliance, since you will never satisfy the gov't there until you drive a prius : MOVE:lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
That's the thing though... I DO drive a Prius. Been driving a Prius for the last 6 years. That's still not enough.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,636 Posts
I've posted on this particular forum section, as emissions is an engine related issue, and the 7.3L engine is likely the only motor that will last long enough to be worried about retrofitting in 2020! ;)
Good info.:thumbsup:

If you'd like, I can move it up into the 7.3L E&D FAQ subforum, but it's definitely appropriate here. Let me know.

I am amazed at how often I've googled something I wanted to know, and the first and most appropriate hit was one of my very own posts (under a different user name) that answered all of my questions! How did I forget? How did I know it in the first place? I'll never know the answer to either of those questions.
:lol:
I resemble that remark. It seems like some days I'm in danger of forgetting my name.
How we remember the littlest, most obscure things, and forget the big stuff is one of life's mysteries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Good info.:thumbsup:

If you'd like, I can move it up into the 7.3L E&D FAQ subforum, but it's definitely appropriate here. Let me know.


Sure. Absolutely move it up into the FAQ. I'd be honored. The info should be relevant and timely for the next 10 years!

A lot of F-450/550 owners in California may not realize how the new emissions regulations impact them yet. I know I was confused by them.

My VIN ends in an odd number, so last year I wasn't sure whether I didn't have to smog on my last registration renewal because of the that (VINs ending in even numbers got hit up for smog testing last year, and VINs ending in odd numbers get hit this year) or did I not have to smog because I was over 14K gvwr. I suspected the latter, but feared the former. Part of the research was to confirm the latter. No test required.

However, that seemed worse... because that would mean retrofitting, at a cost of $5,000 to $10,000 per truck, so I heard. That was worrisome, as the trucks depreciate down to that level. So the other part of the research was to confirm which type of trucks had to retrofit, and which simply had to retire. Ours simply have to retire (to green pastures... ie, other states perhaps), and we have a reasonable time to use the life left in the vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Here is something else of interest that is in the works.

Scroll down to the center of the page....look for the 5th bullet.
NEW BIT PROGRAM

"The inspection will include lower GVWR vehicles (10,000 lbs. or more with 2-axles) that were previously not subject to BIT. Now ALL vehicles that require a MCP would also be subject to BIT fees and inspections."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Looking at the costs of retrofitting....

$11,000 for passive system

or

$20,000 for active system

That's per truck.

Obviously, the cost to retrofit comes close to meeting or exceeding the residual value of the chassis. (not counting the second unit upfit body, which can be transferred to a new chassis)

So retrofitting is not feasible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Can we get a link to an official site with this info? This kind of stuff REALLY makes me mad! I need to find a way to incorporate in a different state and register my vehicles there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mattt

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Can we get a link to an official site with this info? This kind of stuff REALLY makes me mad! I need to find a way to incorporate in a different state and register my vehicles there.
Diesel Activities - Mobile Vehicles and Equipment CARB's page for diesel vehicles

Truck Stop <----click the link, a new page will open, then click on the picture of the white conventional Freightliner. CARB's handy little tool that helps you determine if the regs apply to you.

Diesel Activities - Mobile Vehicles and Equipment CARB's home page for all diesel activity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Thanks. I read most of everything on those links, but I still can't determine if my E450 motorhome is covered under any of these regulations. I sure hope not!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Thanks. I read most of everything on those links, but I still can't determine if my E450 motorhome is covered under any of these regulations. I sure hope not!
You should (notice I said should :icon_wink: ) be OK since a motorhome is registered as a "house car" and does not fit into the truck or bus categories. I do know that they are exempt from all of the CHP rules and regs for commercial vehicles that I deal with daily.

To put your mind at ease, I'd dial up CARB's 800 number or shoot them an email.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
606 Posts
I wonder what they will think of my 1999 Peterbilt 385 that is registered as a Motorhome in Montana, LOL! Screw the Commiefornians!

Joe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Has anything changed since this was first posted?? I just ordered a 2014 F-450
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Has anything changed since this was first posted?? I just ordered a 2014 F-450
If you are getting a 2014, your new rig will have the DPF and Urea system installed from the factory. You are good to go (until CARB decides the change the rules again)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Good heavens! Do those ting bats stay up at night thinking of ways to make life more difficult?
And I thought Taxachusetts was bad......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I know this post is old but I need some clarification. I'm pretty sure I understand but would like to know before I buy another truck.

I'm thinking of getting an 08-10 f450 and it will be used basically as any other truck I've owned, damn near a daily driver. It will be treated just like it was an f150. Knowing that, will I have any issues in the future regarding smog or any other bs, like this retrofitting nonsense? Or am I in the clear to do whatever I see fit with this truck?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
By the way, Im new to the forum. Joined right now just to throw this question out there, but plan to stick around, lots of great info. Thanks guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,831 Posts
the new trucks come equipped with dpfs and CAT's, so no retrofitting

you will be fine, might have to replace the exhaust filter after awhile
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hey I need to bring this topic back up.
I just bought a 2010 F450 out of state. This year F450 is smog exempt since the GVWR is 14500.
My question is do I still have to smog it initially to get it registered here in Cali?
I did buy it from a dealership in VA and had it shipped here. They said it was unmodified, but I took it to get smogged only to find out I'm missing the emissions equipment (CAT, DPF). So I'm in the process of figuring it all out.

What's anyones thoughts on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
If you own, operate, use, register, sit in, touch, sniff, think about, or happen to see an F-450 or F-550 drive down the road in the State of California, the following information may be of some interest to you.

__________

NEWLY Edited Note: After originally posting this, I went to Sacramento to attend a 4 hour training session in the EPA building taught by the actual CARB bureaucrats who actually dream up, draft and deliver these new diesel retrofit or retire regulations. I wanted to get the info straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

After learning a ton about the specific reporting and compliance requirements of commercial fleets, I went up to the CARB leaders and specifically asked about the requirements of recreational vehicle folks who simply bought an F-450 or F-550 to be able to tow and handle their fifth wheel or race car trailer or gooseneck horse trailer safely.

They said it is not their intent to go after this type of usage, and pointed me to the first and second pages of their dog eared play book, and they forwarded a pdf file of the same to the email address I gave them on the spot.

According to the "FINAL REGULATION ORDER" Division 3, Chapter 1, Section 2025, Paragraph (c) Subparagraph (12) "Exemptions: This regulation does not apply to: Trucks with a GVWR of 19,500 or less with a pick-up bed used exclusively for personal, non-commercial, or non-governmental use."

So if you have an F-450 pick up or an F-550 with a pick-up bed conversion such as what Manning, Fontaine, Royal, UBW, and others have made... and this heavy hauling pickup is used exclusively for personal use and not for trade or commerce, then that vehicle falls under the exemption cited above.

__________


If the F-450/550 has a flat bed or stake bed or other commerically oriented body that would also typically require it to stop at the scales, then read on:


1. Trucks over 14,000 lbs. GVWR are exempt from the biennial smog checks.

2. Trucks over 14.000 lbs. GVWR are required to be brought into compliance with 2010 level emissions eventually.

3. Trucks over 26,000 lbs. GVWR are also subject to annual fleet reporting requirements, meeting a compliance schedule, or phase in of retrofits if elected, or early retirement.

4. Trucks between 14K and 26K do not have to be reported, and have a longer period of time before retrofitting or retirement is mandated. HOWEVER....

5. Fleets that have a mix of trucks both over and under 26K GVWR need to report ALL trucks in their fleets that are over 14K if electing to not follow the CARB compliance schedule STRICTLY and instead want to use the more lenient phase in option schedules.

6. There are many more specifics to the CARB requirements that this post is not intended to address. Please refer to the CARB website f you have a truck over 26K GVWR (and there is no F-450 or 550 that falls in that category, as even the heaviest duty F-550 is still only 19.5K GVWR, regardless of gross COMBINED rating).

7. There is no requirement to retrofit F-450/550s with aftertreatment particulate matter filter systems.

8. Heavier trucks (over 26k GVWR) must be retrofitted with particulate matter filter systems by deadlines that loom in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2017. However, these deadlines do not apply to F-450/550 medium duty trucks between 14K and 26K GVWR.

9. The compliance strategies specified by the CARB are the same for all F-450s and F-550s from 1998 through 2009. The DEADLINE for compliance DIFFERS, but the strategy is the same. CARB has four options for compliance in heavier duty trucks, but for vehicles under 26K GVWR, the options all boil down to one: Replacement with a 2010 model year or newer engine by a specified date. (Date chart below).


1998 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2018
1999 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2019
2000 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2001 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2002 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2003 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2020
2004 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2021
2005 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2021
2006 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2021
2007 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2023
2008 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2023
2009 - Replace with 2010 MY or newer engine by January 1, 2023
2010 - Have a cigar! You are already in compliance.


Note that the deadline is the same for engine model years 2000-2003 (2020), and the same for model years 2004-2006 (2021), and the same for model years 2007-2009 (2023).

Also note that no differentiation is made for the 2003 model year that had both the 7.3L as well as the 6.0L engine.

Note further that the deadline is the same for the 2007 6.0L engine, versus the newer 2008 6.4L engine.

And fnally note that the 2010 6.4L engine gets a pass, while not substantially different than the 2008 and 2009 engines that are forced to be retrofitted (with what? The same engine?) in 2023.

Obviously, if you are subject to these regulations, you need to do your own due diligence in determing how to comply. I'm not an expert, I am not liable for your reliance on this information. I posted what I researched online, as well as at what I learned in the CARB training school, in the spirit of sharing tidbits and fostering open helpful discussion with other members who are similarly situated.

Reference: "FINAL REGULATION ORDER" As provided by CARB on December 29, 2011

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/documents/TBFinalReg.pdf
Just curious, have you found out anything new regarding being able to keep a 2003 F550 past the cutoff dates?
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top