[DirtFarmer]

Those crazy cats in California are at it again:

News Headlines - Calif. expected to crack down on diesel emissions : Townhall.com


This is just what the economy needs!

If the rules are adopted, old diesel vehicles would have to be outfitted with pollution filters or new engines or be replaced with newer, cleaner vehicles.

I've seen a raised middle digit emoticon on other web sites. Right about now I wish TDS had one.

 

[GEARJAMMER]

Those crazy cats in California are at it again:

News Headlines - Calif. expected to crack down on diesel emissions : Townhall.com


This is just what the economy needs!

I've seen a raised middle digit emoticon on other web sites. Right about now I wish TDS had one.

Simple fix! OTR trucks should refuse to run in that state.

Shawn

 

[drcampbell]

Simple fix! OTR trucks should refuse to run in that state.

Yeah, right. And the Big 3 should refuse to sell cars there, too.

The cost to businesses, school districts and transit agencies statewide is estimated at $5.5 billion. ... By the time the regulation is fully implemented in 2023, regulators estimate the amount of diesel particulate matter and nitrogen oxides emitted from these vehicles would be cut by about a third. ...

Do the math: $5.5 Billion works out to $145 per capita. (38 million people live in California) And that's spread out over 15 years, which works out to $9.65 per year.

Seems like a pittance to pay for cleaner air and better health.

 

[DHTD]

Its ridiculous, I was reading about the new laws trying to be put in place for emmisions on large trucks in LA times yesterday,anways, in the story, a lady who lives with her child in a heavy trucking city of southern cal, decided to blame diesel for her kids asthma. How about thinking for a moment your child HAS ASTHMA and its coincidence, instead of trying to bring down the entire free world as we know it! The country is run on american trucks period and I think people are jerks when they buy a foreign truck! But thats another issue.

I live in So. California, its a great place, unfortunately a lot of the state's money has been lost due to bad government and this looks like another bad move. Its sad really.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[DirtFarmer]

Do the math: $5.5 Billion works out to $145 per capita. (38 million people live in California) And that's spread out over 15 years, which works out to $9.65 per year.

I don't follow. I don't think that this is going to be paid for by the state, just required by the state. If you happen to have a nice running 2006 (pre particulate filter, etc) truck and are forced by the state to upgrade it with all of this junk, it'll cost a heckuva lot more than $9.65.

I don't know, but I thought that emissions requirements only applied only to new (and later) vehicles and the older rigs were exempt from the new requirements?

Seems like a pittance to pay for cleaner air and better health.

You add up enough of these government mandated pittances and it will hurt the economy and run individuals and businesses right out of the state.

The good news is that this is a California program instead of federal.

 

[oldbronco]

"The good news is that this is a California program instead of federal."

The problem is that everything that starts in California soon spreads like cancer to the rest of country. These rules will be coming to your state in a few years due to Pelosi, Reid, and Co. :icon_mad:

 

[Dualie]

well its all fine and dandy till you have to actually pony up and replace a perfectly good truck because it doesn't meet their bull shat emissions standards.

In my case i have a 1989 Ford F-800 with a national crane boom on it. right after last years Con EXPO i got a price from my local national crane dealer for pretty much the new version of the same crane i have now. Well $298,000+ FET licenses and sales tax is a damn hard pill to swallow. With a tick over 6,800 hours on my current truck and less than 64,000 miles on the chassis its far from worn out but giving their free rain its going to be scrap iron. its paid for itself 15 times over but i don't get enough use out of it to justify spending 300K on a new unit.

IM A Small business thats doing OK in our current economic climate. I do also have a 2006 Kenworth CA spec. heavy haul That had oxycats on it from the factory. well removing those netted me a solid .5mpg improvement That truck does run alot more than the crane so i could justify the $. But even with its current lifetime average MPG of 5.7mpg being forced to upgrade to a new DPF truck that gets 4.9 would make the economics much less practical.

ALL i see these regs doing is putting the owner operator out of business and making Swift, JB hunt, Knight, and all the other cheep freight haulers the only game in California. They will just keep trading out their older trucks to other locations and always run their brand new trucks in CA.

not to mention the already in place bullshat off road diesel regs i have to jump through to keep in compliance. The cost amortized across the population of California per year is a truly false number. If you factor in the cost of the off road regs and the new on road regs its much higher.

Couple that with the fact that i must now replace all my low hours specialty equipment that runs more than 100 hours a year with compliant engines my replacement costs are well over $million dollars. IM a small employer of less than 10 people. Thats a HUGE number to swallow.

IF they simply placed their ridiculous regulations on NEW equipment natural attrition and replacement cycles would take care of the rest. their NAZI type forced compliance at all costs its a huge monetary pill to swallow.

 

[OT]

D..you removed "oxycat" What it's purpose? TIA

Meantime, its wait & see. I doubt they'll make "every rig" park it if they dont meet new e. standards right away.
Need particulars on time frame talked about. Good luck!

 

[Kaliburz]

:nono:


... need I say more....

 

[MarkEkberg]

If and when they will be forcing a vehicle that passed emmisions (50 state legal in 1996) in the past, will have to be paid for by the state. You could liken it to the state making you insulate your house because you use too much heating fuel. That pollutes as well, but the state would not do that becasue they know they would have to pay for it. For some reason they think they can dictate things with motor vehicles.

Can't wait until I take a vacation to CA with my old stinky, black smoking diesel that passed all emmision requirements for 1996.

All it takes if a few squeeky wheels and it will happen or the mandate will go away.

 

[CDX825]

http://webpages.charter.net/lmarz/emissions.html

 

[Dualie]

D..you removed "oxycat" What it's purpose? TIA

Meantime, its wait & see. I doubt they'll make "every rig" park it if they don't meet new e. standards right away.
Need particulars on time frame talked about. Good luck!

The only purpose i know they do and do well is eat fuel millage, create back pressure when mounted on the truck And give mice a nice home when installed in the barn.

Its part of Cats ACERT technology. SO it might be useful for over complicating a simple design, braking rockers, eating turbo's Or making insane amounts of boost for not near enough Horsepower to air ratio.

45+lbs of boost at times only making a supposed 550HP 1850 Ft lbs of torque with cats heavy haul program. Even though you could easily make the same HP in a mechanical motor with much less boost and better MPG's

And they wont make you park every rig immediately but as a systematic elimination of profits they have some time line for what amounts to a compression ignition ethnic cleansing.


TO top all that off their forcing fleets and O/O's to purchase soulless aerodynamic clown cars if your going to run farther than 100 miles from your home base. Trucks must meet the EPA's smart way specs. Air dams, side skirts, low rolling resistance tires, optimal gearing, low Drag. all those items are going to be fan friggingtastic when i have to haul 120,000 Lbs over a curb and into a muddy jobsite:icon_rolleyes:

Land of the free eh? last time i checked it used to be a free market but now the EPA is telling me what kind of truck i MUST buy. Thanks i don't know how i made enough money to feed my family and keep them from getting completely inundated with diesel soot and riddled with cancer before the CARB came along.

Sorry about the rant... :icon_mad:

Oh and all my powerstrokes are now getting DP tunes with a smoke setting

 

[drcampbell]

Am I the only person here to look at the actual proposal from CARB?

It includes a 15-year implementation schedule and a long list of exemptions for low-use vehicles, small fleets, emergency vehicles and several other categories. School buses built before 1977 face mandatory retirement/repowering - not exactly supporting the claim of turning perfectly-good late-model equipment into scrap iron. The State of California (don't remember whether it was the ARB or some other budget) has also provided grant money to assist with the cost of retrofitting vehicles.

Anything that doesn't qualify for the low-use exemption is probably going to need repowering sometime before the year 2023 anyway. The incremental cost of repowering with an emissions-compliant engine isn't anywhere near the cost of a replacement vehicle.

Anyway, it's just a cost of doing business which businesses won't actually pay; they'll just pass it down to their customers. At least, that's what I always hear.

And if you hate it bad enough, move to Detroit. It'll be a very long time before there are any state emissions regulations enacted here.

 

[MarkEkberg]

I looked at it after I assumed it would involve all light duty trucks as well. It currently does not, but there is still a significant cost that does not need to be there.

 

[checkthisout]

I looked at it after I assumed it would involve all light duty trucks as well. It currently does not, but there is still a significant cost that does not need to be there.

My bet is that a lot of residents would disagree with you.

Los Angeles is one area that would benefit ENORMOUSLY from plug-in Hybrids and more widespread use of Solar Power.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Damn residents.

Makes me remember the suger beat factory in Nampa ID. It had been there for decades until a bunch of subdivisions went in around it. Then after everyone moved in they decided it smelled bad and tried to make them move. Not sure if it happened or not but these types of things are crazy.

If you are not happy with where you are living, for what ever the reason, noise, smell, pollution, crime, etc, then move! There are going to be inherently danerous places to live in the country for a multitude of reasons. You should know this going in. If you don't then your an idiot for not researching. If you are unsatisfied with your community, simply move.

 

[OT]

Mark..

If you are unsatisfied with your community, simply move.

No, not so simple. Think about it. Meantime...

Where I live Reno/Sparks area. EPA said yrs.ago..air quality bad..didn't meet fed. guidelines etc.

Long story short..Today due to following EPA rules..our air quality has greatly improved. People didnt simply move away due to air quality. Our communities were growing then & growth continues today.

If one researches..you'll soon find cutting/reducing particulates from diesel big rigs has been a slow on going process for sometime. But, like I said..its wait & see what the final rules will be & how they'll be enforced. JMO!

 

[checkthisout]

Damn residents.

Makes me remember the suger beat factory in Nampa ID. It had been there for decades until a bunch of subdivisions went in around it. Then after everyone moved in they decided it smelled bad and tried to make them move. Not sure if it happened or not but these types of things are crazy.

If you are not happy with where you are living, for what ever the reason, noise, smell, pollution, crime, etc, then move! There are going to be inherently danerous places to live in the country for a multitude of reasons. You should know this going in. If you don't then your an idiot for not researching. If you are unsatisfied with your community, simply move.

Wow!

All that because you dislike the idea of filtering Diesel Exhaust?

 

[B-rad]

Who cares what the republic of California has to say, after all I moved from there to the United States of America.

 

[MarkEkberg]

It not that I do not like the idea of filtering exhaust. What I am against is minimal gains with huge costs.

Other examples. The additive (mtb) in fuel that supposidly reduced emmisions. Well it now has polluted ground water across the country. Now there is a bigger issue with that. Cat processes that produce ozone v/s no, co, co2, etc. Well ozone is worse at ground level than no, co, co2 is in the atmosphere. Lastly various emmision additives and processes that require the end user to use significanly more fuel. This is all in the name that your car runs cleaner. This has never made sense to me.

I know there are growing pains and our enviornment is important, but the people who are mandating these things are not being fiscally responsible.