[moosecountry]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

[ QUOTE ]
With regard to the testing, you can use your "one-ton truck" as long as the trailer is over 10k and the combined weight is over 26k. This will get you a "Class A" license here in GA. However unless you take the test in an airbrake equipped vehicle you would not be licensed for airbrakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know of any one-tons with a GCWR over 26K pounds. I originally asked because I am looking at the new F-450 which does have a GCWR that exceeds 26K and would need a CDL B to drive for work, or an A if I plan to tow over 10K which I would. So I just asked if they would allow me to take it in this, or do I have to find a semi to use?

Thanks

 

[Ag__Teacher]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With regard to the testing, you can use your "one-ton truck" as long as the trailer is over 10k and the combined weight is over 26k. This will get you a "Class A" license here in GA. However unless you take the test in an airbrake equipped vehicle you would not be licensed for airbrakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know of any one-tons with a GCWR over 26K pounds. I originally asked because I am looking at the new F-450 which does have a GCWR that exceeds 26K and would need a CDL B to drive for work, or an A if I plan to tow over 10K which I would. So I just asked if they would allow me to take it in this, or do I have to find a semi to use?

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, a half ton truck with a 6600 gvw has a GCWR over 26000 if you hook it to a tandem dual flat bed rated at 20,000

GCWR (as far as the gov't is concerned) equals the sum of the truck GVWR plus the trailer GVWR.

 

[JimTJr]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, a half ton truck with a 6600 gvw has a GCWR over 26000 if you hook it to a tandem dual flat bed rated at 20,000

GCWR (as far as the gov't is concerned) equals the sum of the truck GVWR plus the trailer GVWR.

[/ QUOTE ] True, our One tons, with an 11,500 or 11,200 (depending on the year) and a 21k three axle trailer would seem to be in that area. (Then Ford says 20,000 GCW,,,) so there is a mixed up area, as far as the DOT and HP ect.. are concerned. Really every One ton you see going down the road with a three axle trailer needs a CDL... Do they all have one? I dont know. Did they take their test in them? Couldnt answer that...
Call your local drivers examination station, and ask. That is the only way your going to get a STRAIGHT ANSWER for you!

 

[moosecountry]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

I ask here on the chance that someone may know from personal experience. I hold in my hand the law in NH that states how to register your truck for GVW. It states that if an owner wished to register for a weight higher than the manufacturers rating he must state the weight at time of registration and the fees will be computed based on that weight given. So I took my '06 Chevy 2500HD registration with me and asked to register for 10,700 (mfg. rating of 9200) and I was denied. I don't know how they could deny me and override what the law states but they did. So I am looking to upgrade to an F-450 and not have to worry about being overweight, but I would need a CDL and don't want to have to take a course or borrow a semi.

Tim

 

[JimTJr]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

Gotcha,, guess they wouldnt let me register at 26k, like I am here in MO. huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif Go figure, your up there in "PRIMARY" land,, the Noreast,, too political for me!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/depressed.gif

 

[teamroper60]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

[ QUOTE ]
For the misinformed:

There is nothing in the FEDERAL regulations that requires you to have a CDL if the trailer you tow is over 10k pounds - commercial or not commercial. As long as your GCWR is under 26k you do not need a CDL. The federal regulations haven't changed in this area since they were put out in the 70's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure where you got that info from, but the federal requirements that standardized the CDL went into effect in the '90's. They are the same for all states. I'm looking at them right now. Here is the breakdown:

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

You can read about it here: Federal CDL requirements

Bear in mind that the goal of the law was to ensure that drivers of big rigs and buses were qualified to operate those vehicles. Individual states retained the right to make their rules more stringent. These regs only ensure that all CMV drivers meet a minimum standard.

 

[dawgfan25]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

Here is some info from the FMCSA site. You can read all of it right here .

[ QUOTE ]
Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.


[/ QUOTE ]

This means that you don't have to be driving a truck with as GVWR over 26,000lbs in order to get a "Class A" CDL. Note also that you can't get a "Class B" with you F450. So any truck and trailer, regardless of size, which puts the combination over 26,000lbs GCWR would work for the CDL road test.

After re-reading your posts I realized you said your traier was RATED at 20,000lbs and REGISTERED for 14,000lbs. The registered weight is a tax issue and separate from the rated weight - which applies to whether or not you need a CDL. You will definately need a CDL in order to tow your trailer legally since it is rated at 20K. Hook up to any 3/4 ton pickup or larger and you will be over 26,000 combined rated weight. It doesn't matter what the truck and trailer actually weigh. This is where most people get confused. You need find the actual weight of the truck and trailer you will be driving and use this number to obtain your registered weight. Once you register with a number over 26,000lbs the taxes go up in hurry no matter the state.

It's possible in your state the trailer is registered separately from the truck. If this is the case then you need to register the truck at it's full GVWR and register the trailer with the remaining weight. It wouldn't hurt to add some extra since your trailer can handle it. Just make sure you buy enough registration for your combined weight and you should be fine. The newer F350 SRW truck are rated at 11,000(iirc), and would tow your 14,000lb trailer fine if don't want a dually. Another possbility is having your trailer de-rated with a new GVWR at 15,000lbs, which would put you under the 26K CDL threshold combined with a truck rated at 11,000lbs. It might save you a lot of hassle. I had 1 axle removed from my tri-axle trailer(derated from 18K to 12K)in order to get below 26K. The trailer place had no problem doing this since they were the manufacturer.

Here in GA you buy we buy registration based upon the weight of truck AND trailer. The basic plate or registration starts at 14k, then goes to 18k, then 26K, and up from there. All license plates 18K and up have the weight written on the plate. This makes it very easy to spot a truck which isn't registered correctly.

Hope this helps some.

 

[dawgfan25]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

I guess I got the time wrong. The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 was when the regulations started, and drivers in all states were required to have CDL's as of 1992. I was looking at some old Georgia info when I spoke. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nowhere in this sentence does it say you are required to have a CDL for trailers over 10K if the combination is UNDER 26,001.

From the back of my Georgia driver's license:

[ QUOTE ]
Class C - May operate single vehicles less than 26,001 lbs GVWR. May tow trailer less than 10,001 lbs GVWR. May tow trailer over 10,000 lbs GVWR provided the GCWR is less than 26,001. All recreational vehicles are included in this class.

[/ QUOTE ]


This follows the federal standard exactly. Not sure why they included "May tow trailer less than 10,001 lbs GVWR" - I would hope so since you can tow with a trailer over 10,000 lbs.

 

[moosecountry]

Re: CDL Test & F450/Gooseneck?

You are right, I confused GVWR with GCWR for a second when I mentioned the class B. Class B would be useless anyway as I need to haul a heavy trailer.

Tim

 

[loganhauler]

Hello all, I have been reading this thread of a while now and most of the information has been correct. It is the combination of the tow vehicle's "GVRW" and the toed vehicle's "GVRW" that trigger the CDL law. If over 26001 lbs and the vehicles are used in a commerical venture you have to have a CDL. You can take your CDL test with whatever you plan to use as a tow vehicle. I took my class A CDL test with my F250 and my 32 ft 5th wheel trailer (21,300 LBS GVRW), but I did not get the air brake rating as I do not need it. The test is the same, per-trip inspection, driving, backing, parking, etc, just minus the air brake inspection. Again, if you are not going to do anythig commerical you do-not need a CDL (Commerical Driver Licence).

Paul
Keep on Strokin

 

[mflores]

How did you take your test with a vehicle that has a gvwr of 21,300?

 

[loganhauler]

Oops, Sorry about that, The combined GVWR of my truck and trailer is 21,3000 lbs. 8800 for the truck and 12,500 for the RV. BTW, I use the F250 in a small (me) RV transport company. At this time I have 331,450 miles and still running strong. Next time I will check my post closer.

 

[psy999]

"Again, if you are not going to do anythig commerical you do-not need a CDL (Commerical Driver Licence)."

Wrong, if your truck/trailer combo is over 26001, you need a CDL, unless you are in one of the few specific exempt categories (I won't repeat them again, but they do not include "not for commercial".

If you think I'm wrong, try renting a semi and trailer with your regular drivers license, "I'm not going to use it for anything commercial".

That's from the DOT handbook and the DOT inspector who threatened to give me a ticket for driving up for my test pulling the trailer when I didn't have the license yet (Yeah, I thought the same thing but didn't say it out loud).

 

[Freightrain]

and....when you were done with your CDL test you CAN'T drive the truck home. You are not "legal" to operate a "commercial" truck until you get your official printed license. The one main reason I rented the test station truck/trailer.

Places like Ryder/Penske will rent you a tractor.....but the person DRIVING it better have a CDL! Plus if you are not a corporate business or plan on renting a fleet the deposit is $5000!!!! CASH!!! No business checks or Credit card! Ya, I know because where I work went thru this a year ago. Need a tractor for ONE day and had to hand them a bank check.

 

[tdr1500]

what RIDICULOUS RULES!!!!!! and it keeps getting worse..
Rules to go by in the state of Texas.
If the trailer can haul more than 10K including the trailers weight (and doesnt have farm tags) you better have a CDL! I DONT CARE WHAT TRUCK YOU ARE DRIVING!
Just having a 1 ton truck with a 20' tandem dual ( 20K rated) hooked up is enough to get a serious fine.

Its really chicken $hit of states and thier rules for testing etc in my opinion.. I drove MY truck and MY trailer to the DPS office and took the test AND drove it home...

In MY case where I am hauling equipment "operating" my business I have to have a CDL.and then I had to have a DOT number, be registered with the Texas Motor carrier association, carry commercial insurance, have a DOT inspection on my dually, carry triangles and a fire extinguisher etc etc etc... Its just a way for the state to get into your back pocket to the tune of about $1000.00


Keep in mind here in Austin that not only do we have to put up with Texas DPS officers, being that Austin is the capitol they ALSO have Austin police officers that are designated " lisence and weights" officers and ALL they do is pull trucks over and do road side inspections...ask me how I know..

 

[Freightrain]

Lately here in Ohio, there are ALOT more white crown vic's running around but they aren't Smokeys. They are enforcement officers looking for trucks to pick apart.

 

[Kanman]

[ QUOTE ]
what RIDICULOUS RULES!!!!!! and it keeps getting worse..
Rules to go by in the state of Texas.
If the trailer can haul more than 10K including the trailers weight (and doesnt have farm tags) you better have a CDL! I DONT CARE WHAT TRUCK YOU ARE DRIVING!
Just having a 1 ton truck with a 20' tandem dual ( 20K rated) hooked up is enough to get a serious fine.

Its really chicken $hit of states and thier rules for testing etc in my opinion.. I drove MY truck and MY trailer to the DPS office and took the test AND drove it home...

In MY case where I am hauling equipment "operating" my business I have to have a CDL.and then I had to have a DOT number, be registered with the Texas Motor carrier association, carry commercial insurance, have a DOT inspection on my dually, carry triangles and a fire extinguisher etc etc etc... Its just a way for the state to get into your back pocket to the tune of about $1000.00


Keep in mind here in Austin that not only do we have to put up with Texas DPS officers, being that Austin is the capitol they ALSO have Austin police officers that are designated " license and weights" officers and ALL they do is pull trucks over and do road side inspections...ask me how I know..

[/ QUOTE ]

You think it's bad now, JUST WAIT. If you want an example of WHY go read the 4 page post "Help!! My new fiver bucks me like a bull!" This is an absolutely classic example of why we are going to be slammed with CDL laws and new restrictions PDQ. We have guys that have huge checkbooks, and not one lick of common sense. Guys with so-called "trucks" that are nothing more than glorified sports cars. Hell, that toy hauler might as well be hooked to a VW bug for all the better he is doing. He will keep dumping his cash trying to make it ride right, it wont, not in a million years! Saddest part of all, in 4 pages of posts 2 guys have told him the truck was too small. One was ridiculed by a moderator for giving him solid advice (even if it was not a good idea) it was still by far the best advice he has been given so far "PERIOD!", besides getting a bigger truck! Everybody else is starry-eyed and drooling over the new shiny thing he purchased. Wont be long till the guys that "need" to haul for a living are going to be drug down in a sea of new taxes and red tape. Never mind what its going to do to our insurance rates. This guy doesn't have the slightest clue what he is doing is dead wrong, dangerous and at the very least scary. Nobody is telling him its wrong, the vast majority are patting him on the back with "atta-boys" The scariest thing of all, and he doesnt have the slightest clue this can happen to him. If he gets in a wreck and somebody gets killed with that thing (it DOES NOT matter who's fault the wreck was) he is going to prison. Just wait till the DOT shows up to work that wreck.

 

[psy999]

"and....when you were done with your CDL test you CAN'T drive the truck home. You are not "legal" to operate a "commercial" truck until you get your official printed license."

Freightrain, they did the same to you? I thought the guy was just being a real pr-ck with me when he made me drop my trailer until I came back with the offical CDL driver's license (wouldn't accept the temporary DMV forms showing I passed the tests). I guess I owe him an apology.

Dave

 

[Vickie Budreau]

The combined GVWR of my truck and trailer is 21,3000 lbs. 8800 for the truck and 12,500 for the RV. BTW, I use the F250 in a small (me) RV transport company.

 

[rowekmr]

Does the registered weight of that trailer qualify it for Class A CDL? I thought it was the placarded weight. I recall having to look at the placards for my Class A test.

Disregard didn't read the last page of the thread, already covered.