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1999 ford f250
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Hi you might try pulling the main engine harness connector off and check it for corrosion or a wire that has rubbed through on the valve cover and is intermittently shorting a wire on the valve cover it's kinda a long shot but you can at least rule it out.馃憤馃徎馃檪
 
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Turbo shaft play that's bad is axial (thrust bearings worn). But if there's a lot of radial (up and down) play, enough to have the blades hit the housing, that's bad too.
 

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Checking your process of elimination... one important factor has not yet been eliminated: Light Rain.

Checking the weather history for St Louis MO on August 28, 29, 30, 31... indicated very light precipitation, about a tenth of an inch each day.

Did you encounter light rain on your business trip? The type of rain that did not justify continuous use of your windshield wipers, but instead may have been just enough to cause you to turn your wipers on to a low intermittent setting, to clear the windshield every once in a while?

Checking the weather history for Southern Illinois on September 18, 19, 20 ... likewise indicated light precipitation. Have you used your wipers on intermittent setting recently?

The wiring harness to the Camshaft Position Sensor is shielded, and the shielding drain wires are grounded via a common splice for several grounds to the PCM.

Simultaneously, the PCM has yet another ground that is shared with the windshield wiper motor.

When the windshield wiper motor is set to the intermittent wiper setting, the dithering of power generates electrical noise that is transmitted through the grounding circuits which effects how the PCM reads the Camshaft Position Sensor signal, which causes stumbles, and can cause the engine to inexplicably shut down altogether.

If the wipers are turned to full operation, either slow speed or fast speed, the interference does not occur. This is why people miss this diagnosis, because the truck works just fine in the rain, and the truck works just fine when it is not raining, therefore they assume that neither rain nor windshield wipers are a factor.

But the key thing to remember is that the electrical noise interference is transmitted during INTERMITTENT wiper settings, hence truck behavior during LIGHT rain can be very different than steady or heavy rain, or no rain at all. Or no forward motion at all during light rain, because the truck is parked idling for testing purposes, and the wipers are not on.

So to perfect the process of elimination, the wiper motor switch status must be included in your analysis of cause and effect. You might be changing out a lot of parts and tearing your hair out for nothing, if you in fact had your windshield wipers on the intermittent setting on the days you experienced stumbles or stalls.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Hi you might try pulling the main engine harness connector off and check it for corrosion or a wire that has rubbed through on the valve cover and is intermittently shorting a wire on the valve cover it's kinda a long shot but you can at least rule it out.馃憤馃徎馃檪
I saw a video on that same subject, so I checked it. The looming was scuffed pretty badly but hadn鈥檛 gotten through into the wire bundle yet so I split a rubber hose and taped it around it for good measure...... I do need to take my time and inspect the rest of the wires around / on top of the engine, thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Checking your process of elimination... one important factor has not yet been eliminated: Light Rain.

Checking the weather history for St Louis MO on August 28, 29, 30, 31... indicated very light precipitation, about a tenth of an inch each day.

Did you encounter light rain on your business trip? The type of rain that did not justify continuous use of your windshield wipers, but instead may have been just enough to cause you to turn your wipers on to a low intermittent setting, to clear the windshield every once in a while?

Checking the weather history for Southern Illinois on September 18, 19, 20 ... likewise indicated light precipitation. Have you used your wipers on intermittent setting recently?

The wiring harness to the Camshaft Position Sensor is shielded, and the shielding drain wires are grounded via a common splice for several grounds to the PCM.

Simultaneously, the PCM has yet another ground that is shared with the windshield wiper motor.

When the windshield wiper motor is set to the intermittent wiper setting, the dithering of power generates electrical noise that is transmitted through the grounding circuits which effects how the PCM reads the Camshaft Position Sensor signal, which causes stumbles, and can cause the engine to inexplicably shut down altogether.

If the wipers are turned to full operation, either slow speed or fast speed, the interference does not occur. This is why people miss this diagnosis, because the truck works just fine in the rain, and the truck works just fine when it is not raining, therefore they assume that neither rain nor windshield wipers are a factor.

But the key thing to remember is that the electrical noise interference is transmitted during INTERMITTENT wiper settings, hence truck behavior during LIGHT rain can be very different than steady or heavy rain, or no rain at all. Or no forward motion at all during light rain, because the truck is parked idling for testing purposes, and the wipers are not on.

So to perfect the process of elimination, the wiper motor switch status must be included in your analysis of cause and effect. You might be changing out a lot of parts and tearing your hair out for nothing, if you in fact had your windshield wipers on the intermittent setting on the days you experienced stumbles or stalls.
I believe those days that I was out were clear and I usually check the weather forecast before driving the truck. I don鈥檛 believe I had the wipers on at all during those times - but I will check it out while driving this week before starting on the engine work. I remember that being mentioned in other posts now that you brought it up.馃憤
 

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I've been having similar issues lately so I'm paying attention to your thread. I too had ordered a new CPS online (rock auto) and it was a dark one but the end of it was about 1/4" smaller diameter than the one that was in the truck. When I compared the magnet strength the new one was quite a bit weaker. I installed it and then removed it because it caused the truck to die 3 times within the first 2 miles of driving. I'm trying to find the cause of my "hiccup/slight sputter" while running. Its different than the CPS failure whereby the engine shuts off like you just turned the key off. I'd like to get a spare CPS but I'd like to find one that is a full 7/8" accros on the sensor side and has a strong magnet in it. Anybody know of a good source?
 

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I've been having similar issues lately so I'm paying attention to your thread. I too had ordered a new CPS online (rock auto) and it was a dark one but the end of it was about 1/4" smaller diameter than the one that was in the truck. When I compared the magnet strength the new one was quite a bit weaker. I installed it and then removed it because it caused the truck to die 3 times within the first 2 miles of driving. I'm trying to find the cause of my "hiccup/slight sputter" while running. Its different than the CPS failure whereby the engine shuts off like you just turned the key off. I'd like to get a spare CPS but I'd like to find one that is a full 7/8" accros on the sensor side and has a strong magnet in it. Anybody know of a good source?
Diesel O-rings or RiffRaff for the good dark purple CPS.

On the original topic, I've been having a slight hiccup now and then, along with grey smoke at start up and reduced MPG's. I've been thinking it's time for injectors, but the other day truck started up with a CEL. Torque wouldn't pull it up (first time it's failed to do that) so FORSCAN showed multiple ICP codes. I replaced the ICP 8 months ago with what I thought was a FORD one, but now I'm thinking it was a counterfeit. Anyway, the hiccup is gone. Truck runs a ton better while the CEL is on. If I reset it it runs like it used to do until the code comes back then it gets a kick in the pants and runs great again. I've ordered a new one from Diesel O-rings which comes in Monday and I am trying not to drive the truck until then. My old, original ICP was replaced only because of oil in the plug, no codes. I think I threw it away or I'd put it back until Monday.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Diesel O-rings or RiffRaff for the good dark purple CPS.

On the original topic, I've been having a slight hiccup now and then, along with grey smoke at start up and reduced MPG's. I've been thinking it's time for injectors, but the other day truck started up with a CEL. Torque wouldn't pull it up (first time it's failed to do that) so FORSCAN showed multiple ICP codes. I replaced the ICP 8 months ago with what I thought was a FORD one, but now I'm thinking it was a counterfeit. Anyway, the hiccup is gone. Truck runs a ton better while the CEL is on. If I reset it it runs like it used to do until the code comes back then it gets a kick in the pants and runs great again. I've ordered a new one from Diesel O-rings which comes in Monday and I am trying not to drive the truck until then. My old, original ICP was replaced only because of oil in the plug, no codes. I think I threw it away or I'd put it back until Monday.
I鈥檓 hoping it鈥檚 my ICP as well, gonna try that first. My ICP is still the original I think...... Large round body with the small nut on the bottom. All my parts came but I鈥檝e been working 16 hr. shifts back to back and working my day off tomorrow. Doesn鈥檛 give much time to work on the truck but may have to take a couple Vacation days next week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I did change my ICP sensor last week, not sure that was it as I still had a real slight hiccup. But tonight I drove my truck to work (ran flawless) so when I got home in the A.M. I could run the AE, buzz test, and CC again.

This intermittent thing is nuts. I have a question regarding Sea Foam. I know some guys say they see no benefits of filling the fuel bowl with maybe the exception of someone chasing injector issues and I know stiction isn鈥檛 normally an issue with our 7.3鈥檚

All the posts I鈥檝e read say pull out the fuel filter, fill bowl with sea foam, re-install filter. Start - let run for 2 minutes, turn off let sit for 2 - 3 hours, then start and run it like you stole it.

Since I just changed the filter not long ago is there an issue with draining the fuel bowl, pulling top, and pouring sea foam around the filter filling the housing?

What鈥檚 the likelihood that an injector with a fuel issue would cause an intermittent miss?

Just trying to make sure I have picked all the low hanging fruit. It鈥檚 not an issue of $ but rather of time having the truck down. I am really questioning my sanity of having my truck down (even for a week) during hunting season, as opposed to waiting until late Dec. or Jan.

Sea Foam would be a pretty cheap and quick option, and I鈥檓 getting down to 1/4 tank of that original fuel and will fill up at a trusted service station. Any opinions on which is the better additive to put in the fuel tank for injector cleaning - sea foam or diesel kleen?

Thanks!!
 

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When I did the Seafoam thing, I left the filter in place. Pulling it, filling the bowl and reinstalling the filter would guarantee that I'd slop Seafoam all over.
I don't think injectors would be the cause of your intermittent hiccups, but it can't hurt to give them a dose of Seafoam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Thank you Kevin. When I changed the ICP I also went around the top of the engine and lifted the harness in various locations and felt underneath for chaffing.
This morning after work I made two more trips. 12 miles over to West Alton, Missouri and filled the tank (28 Gallons), then another short run and bought 4 bottles of sea foam - adding 2 bottles to the fuel tank. Then another 14 miles home and again ran flawless.
Ran AE: This time even the DTC鈥檚 PO476 & PO541 did not show up. The Buzz test sounded great, all injectors sounded equal (truck at operating temperature), CC passed, no codes.
So tomorrow I will do the sea foam in the fuel bowl thing and see where it goes from there. I agree, it still seems electrical, have my UVCH and all my parts ready to go......but it鈥檚 time to chase deer 馃槈
 
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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Wanted to add a quick update. I apologize to those who are having a similar issue and following, and that I can not give a definitive answer.
As previously stated I changed the ICP sensor. Checked wiring again. And did the Sea Foam treatment. Truck did not smoke during the two minute idle, (I have now added a total of 48 ounces of SeaFoam to the fuel tank (Full/38 Gal) In addition to the 16 ounces i put in the fuel bowl) and let sit for over 4 hours. Drove the snot out of the truck and the engine is noticeably quieter.
Also noticed (ScanGauge2) that when driving flat and on cruise my ICP pressures are much tighter and not fluctuating as much as before.
In the past few days I have now driven (3X) farther without incident. Our roads are terrible, it seems every rural road in our Ag zoned County is wash boarded and full of potholes and with every hard jolt I鈥檓 on the edge of the seat waiting for it to miss, but so far so good. Wish I had an explanation - but for now just gonna enjoy the fact that it seems back to normal, This winter, if problem reoccurs or if I find something unusual when changing the UVCH I鈥檒l update. Glenn
 
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Glen,

I tried all the CPS units made a few years back. The current CPS units for the 7.3L made today have 2 different hall sensors inside. They are made by Allegro Microsystems in MA, I'm sure they are made in Asia now. They make the hall sensors for almost every vehicle CMP-CPS today. They make two models for the 7.3L application, the 674 (Offset) and the 675 (Centered) and the Ford Gray & International Blue units use the 674 offset hall sensor and they don't count the markers on the Cam Wheel correct because the signal is offset about 5/32".
These offset CPS units waste fuel and cause skips in the engine. The design is also a shorter length shaft that counts the markers on the cam wheel as it spins. On top of that the plastic end cover is almost 1/8" thick and it blocks the signal. I cut them all open so you can see what I mean.

The NAPA and the Borg Warner CSS 1603 (Older number, may have changed) use the centered 675 (centered hall sensor) and has a much stronger hall sensor magnet. It also counts the Cam wheel signal where it should be like the old original 2001 era CPS units. The plastic end caps on the Borg Warner and Napa units have a thinner 1/6" plastic end cap and the magnet signal is much stronger through the thinner plastic.

I cut them all open with a dremmel tool cut-off wheel and figured this out years ago.

The old CPS units from 2001 made by International USA C93 are the best units. I used Auto Enginuity software years ago and it's no contest. The photo of the black CPS with the long 6" needle in the center shows how strong the old CPS units are. The small circle in the center is the actual hall sensor and it has no plastic to block the signal. It has the small circle in the center with the 2 small holes where they filled them with silicone.

So if you buy modern CPS units you can cut the end caps off to inspect if the unit you bought is the 674 off-set hall sensor or the larger centered 675 hall sensor.

Here is the unit you want for the modern made CPS units.














Hope you get a good one, it's the most important part in the rig.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
Hello Gents! Killed a real nice 8 pointer but weather has been a little on the warm side, so took a break and tried to make some headway on the truck.....a few hours yesterday and good part of today.

Good thing I鈥檓 not an auto mechanic, I鈥檇 starve to death at the slow speed I鈥檓 going馃槈.

Glow plugs all checked out great, one was at (post edit) .4 ohms the rest all .5 ohms. Nothing really caught my eye with the UVCH looking bad at the through valve cover connectors. I will be shimming all the armatures, and solenoids though.

Glenn
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Hey guys, wanted to get your thoughts on my ohm readings...... I鈥檓 thinking my cheap voltmeter just isn鈥檛 sensitive enough. I鈥檓 not in the range that klhansen has on his write up. But my glow plug system has been working fine in the past. I set up my volt meter on its鈥 lowest ohm range on a brand new glowplug and getting .4 ohm resistance.
Set up my GreenLee meter / ohms and
getting zero resistance on the new glowplug. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks!
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I ordered a new shim kit also, the one I had only came with .004鈥 armature shims - the new kit comes with both .002鈥 & .004鈥 armature shims. I thought the .002鈥 shims would be better for those injectors ranging in .002鈥 & .0025鈥 I鈥檓 hoping the .004鈥 shim will be fine on the one that鈥檚 a tight .0015.........and then adding the appropriate shims to all the solenoids.
 

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That 0.6 and 2 ohms range in my Hard Start thread isn't a hard and fast rule. Your Greenlee meter is pretty high range and probably won't report less than 0.5 ohms as anything but zero. Looks like the lowest range is 0-200 A. I don't think you're doing anything wrong.
Interesting thing about the drain holes in the solenoid spacer.
 

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I agree with klhansen I don't think your doing anything wrong. I would be scared as heck to drill any part of my injectors! You are a brave man 馃檪馃憤馃徎I would mess mine all up lol 馃槺
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Just a little update, tomorrow I鈥檓 ready to hook up the batteries and start the truck with the valve covers off. Shimming wasn鈥檛 bad, took my time- with a few days of deer hunting mixed in馃槈 IMO #7 was the worse injector to get to and work on. And the stock inverted torx heads on the armature screws are a PITA.

I had read on other sites, that some time back there was an issue with the new screw heads in shim kits sticking up above the armature plate and needed to be filed down so as not to interfere with the solenoid, I checked mine and they we鈥檙e all good.

The replacement screws are much better with the torx heads. Checked turbo wheel and I do have bearing wear, small amount of up/down movement but not bad enough yet to rub housing. And blades look good, not chipped or wore down from dusting.

So I鈥檒l go back in later and pull the turbo to replace bearings when I do my up pipes, exhaust leaks and exhaust manifold bolts.
Going into this, it seemed like quite the undertaking, not so much now- hope all goes well tomorrow.

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I also found the shimming process much less a pain than I thought it would be. I did not do the drilling on the spacer, though. So far so good after 1 year.
 
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