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Discussion Starter #1
What type of CPS Cam Position Sensor do you have?

The old, original Black units are the best, the International
1825899C93 that were manufactured around 2000 to 2003.

The new Ford/IH Gray or blue units suck, they have about 1/8"
of plastic covering the hall sensor and they are not centered,
they are off-center almost 1/8" throwing the timing way off
giving high EGT's and poor fuel economy.

Here is a new IH Blue CPS, I cut the end plastic off that was 1/8" thick
and put silicone around the sensor. Notice how the sensor is off set?


Here is a photo of a Borg Warner CPS that has a much better hall sensor,
USA made and it's centered. I cut them all open to inspect what type each
sensor uses and if they were centered or off-set.




Here is the old stock "the best" CPS from 2000 NOS stock, notice the sensor is centered and there is no plastic covering the sensor.




Here is a pic of a CPS 'Air Gap' instrument, it measures the gap.
Some engines need to be shimmed the 466 for instance, and even the
7.3L works better with 1 or 2 shims sometimes. Depends on the type of
CPS you are using. If you don't have this 300.00+ instrument you can simply
add a single shim to your CPS and see how it runs. You may or may not notice a difference without software ie: AutoEnginuity. My Van seems to be dialed-in using one shim with an old, original Black CPS.



Here is a pic of how many CPS I tested and cut open.



The CPS is specified at about 18#s ft. torque to install it.

This is the one most sensitive, important parts of the vehicle
that will either make it run like a vette or a ****box.


When you look at this pic notice the cam sensor counts the teeth
as the wheel spins, it counts the smallest tooth between 5-6 (It's so small you cannot write on it) and the largest
tooth at 11 and this thing is spinning like crazy. This is responsible for the timing, fuel delivery, amount of fuel etc. So the new CPS that have the 1/8" of plastic covering the hall sensor are already at a disadvantage. The CPS has a magnetic hall sensor and it counts the teeth. It needs to count them perfectly.

On the old, original Black CPS the magnetic hall sensor has such a strong magnet you can pick up small metal objects with it, like a small key, or large nail clippers etc. I noticed the stronger the magnetic signal, the better the CPS can count the teeth correctly thus giving you optimum performance.

the new Blue or gray CPS from Ford/IH have such a weak magnetic strength due to the 1/8" plastic covering the sensor and the fact the sensor is off-set from center, it's wasting so much fuel and causing high EGT's.




To sum it up,

If you have one of the new CPS units in your truck, try to either get a new Borg Warner black unit or an old International 1825899C93.

When you call IH to get this part#, it will refer you to the new CPS
that is the poor design. You will need to get an old stock unit.

And the Borg Warner BWD unit only has about 1/32" of thin plastic
covering the end cap on the hall sensor and it's only blocking the signal a little bit. But you can still cut the end off with a dremmil tool like I did to expose the hall sensor and the unit will work 100% this way as nothing is blocking the magnetic hall sensor itself.

I tried to explain this in easy way, but it's much more complex.

The CPS is really the brain & heart of the truck put together.


I tried over 15 CPS units in my van, and I found one old stock unit
that had the best magnetic strength and it made the van run great.
I get 18-20 on a 80HP tune at 67 mph 1886 rpm or about.
 

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Whew! That's quite a lot of info. The short of it, yes, I'm running an old style Black CPS. I had a spare when they did the recall on my truck and stuck in the gray CPS. I didn't like that my truck failed the cylinder contribution test in AE with thd gray, so I went back to the black one. Seems to idle better and mileage is slightly better with the black CPS.
 

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Is there any way of putting sealing or candle wax on the end of the sensor and running it then checking the distance? I do believe you talked about matching the "old" sensor but maybe that's too far away? Do you feel it could be an issue if it were too close - other than for obvious "the end is ground off" signs?
 

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Van350sd - what's the part number for the Borg unit? I've never tried one of those.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
CSS1603 is the Borg Warner unit,

When I cut the ends off the CPS units I use GE Silicone
to fill the voids and let it cure overnight.

Then it's good to go.

I have a bunch of pics with all these units cut open, I will UL to
an imageshack photo site and post the folder for the pics.

The hall sensors for the new Ford/IH Gray or Dark Blue CPS units have
an American Co. made sensor but they are made in Asia. These are the cheaper, weaker, off-set units. They tried to save a buck.

The Borg Warner units have the same Co. hall sensors but they are the better
quality/model (Top of the line) in it's class, cost more per unit. So the BWD units
did not go the low-bid route.

When I get the pics UL I will post the links.



This side angle shows how thick the plastic is in front of the hall sensor, after I cut
off the plastic I filled silicone around it and tried the unit. It worked so much better,
but the unit still sucks because it's off-set and the timing was off.

Plus you can see the sensor itself is about 1/8" away from the inside plastic cover,
so in total the sensor is about 1/4" away from the flush edge of the front of the unit.
It's about 1/4" back from where it should be. A major design flaw.





The Gray units are the same off-set units as the Blue Units, I will find those pics,




The Offset units are the ones that cause high EGT's and poor fuel mileage.

So far for the new production the Borg Warner is my choice.

I still have some of the old CPS for my van and this is what I'm using now, they are my favorite. But if you cannot find them anymore the BW/BWD is the way to go.

What the wires do:


This printable paper shows how the CAMP/CPS/CMP starts and you can follow the electrical to troubleshoot problems, this is a good download
and handy paper to keep in your truck. High Res. When you click on the pic, click the pic again to enlarge.;

http://photos.thedieselstop.com/data/500/7_3L_wiring_diagram_handy.jpg
 

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I don't know that I follow all of your reasoning. Plastic should not affect magnetic properties. I will admit I can see how a stronger magnet in the older sensors make them more effective, but putting a plastic casing should not make the magnetism any weaker or stronger.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't know that I follow all of your reasoning. Plastic should not affect magnetic properties. I will admit I can see how a stronger magnet in the older sensors make them more effective, but putting a plastic casing should not make the magnetism any weaker or stronger.

If I did not take the time to do all this testing I would ask questions like this also.

But the bottom line is the 1/8" plastic is blocking the hall sensor from counting the teeth.

If you look at the old, original black CPS the hall sensor goes all the way
to the front/flush with the end of the cps with no plastic or obstructions in it's way.

The Hole in the 7.3L CPS is designed for the CPS unit to send the signal
to the wheel centered, not off-set 1/8" or better. It throws the timing way off.

The BW unit has the hall sensor centered and it works great for an aftermarket unit.
 

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I don't know that I follow all of your reasoning. Plastic should not affect magnetic properties. I will admit I can see how a stronger magnet in the older sensors make them more effective, but putting a plastic casing should not make the magnetism any weaker or stronger.
I can see where a 1/8" piece of plastic coupled with an offset can make a difference with an electromagnetic pulse. The magnetic pulse can't be real strong or it would pick up the bottom of the gear. So removing the plastic would increase the pulse, maybe ever so slightly but it might make a deference.

I looked up the "CSS1603" and the picture shows gray, but it is a Borg Warner - any difference, could be just the display picture?

What about decreasing the distance of the sensor head to the gear???

M
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I can see where a 1/8" piece of plastic coupled with an offset can make a difference with an electromagnetic pulse. The magnetic pulse can't be real strong or it would pick up the bottom of the gear. So removing the plastic would increase the pulse, maybe ever so slightly but it might make a deference.

I looked up the "CSS1603" and the picture shows gray, but it is a Borg Warner - any difference, could be just the display picture?

What about decreasing the distance of the sensor head to the gear???

M
It's not that removing the plastic woiuld increse the signal, it will just make it unobstructed.

The air gap setting on the 7.3L for the CPS is between .025" to .030" from the wheel.

The Air gap tool that I have sets the gap from the end of the cps to the wheel. So for instance if the sensor is 1/4" back from the front of the cps like the blue or gray off-set units, the cps would almost have to touch the wheel to even be close to spec.

This tool was designed to work with the original design cps units, the old black ones with the hall sensor that goes to the end of the cps and has the small circle in the center of the sensor. This is where the air gap should be measured from.

Like I said, I have one shim on my original cps and the engine is running tops. The gap[ is about .025/.026.
 

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Any more info on shimming the CPS? I picked up a BW CPS today and it runs better than my grey.
 

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where are the Borg Warner sensors sold?
 

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What color is the borg warner cps unit that was mentioned earlier? I am seeing black and grey on the websites.
 

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Any more info on shimming the CPS? I picked up a BW CPS today and it runs better than my grey.
In what way does it run better? I am considering trying one, I'm wondering if it will help mpg's due to the 1/8 inch timing difference.
 

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so what your getting at is that the borg warner and the original black ones are the tops for cam sensors right??? well i bought a cam sensor thats an original black one for an obs truck on ebay anybody got any info on that one will it work better than the pos charcoal gray one
 

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In what way does it run better? I am considering trying one, I'm wondering if it will help mpg's due to the 1/8 inch timing difference.
Idle has been much smoother.
 

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I just realized that at Advance Auto parts/O'reily's, they have the BWD CSS1603 but its grey. The one that BWD makes that is black is CSS626.
The BWD CSS1603 is for 97-03 7.3's
and
the BWD CSS626 is for 94-96 7.3's.

Now I assume the correct one is the CSS626? considering its black, has a little circle in the center of the end of it that sticks out with two dimples which is just like my original black cps sensor (1825899)

The grey one (CSS1603) is flat with three dimples on the end.


So its the CSS626 correct?
 

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CSS1603 is the correct one for 1999-2003 7.3L.
 

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CSS1603 is the correct one for 1999-2003 7.3L.

I know that but its not black, its grey? The one in van_350sd pictures seemed black. And I know a few others have been suggesting using 94-96 cps's which are working better than the actual ones for our trucks (97+)

So thats why I ask if the CSS626 is the correct one. van_350sd also has two BWD cps boxes in a picture, I wonder if he got the two BWD's mixed up if they are different?
 

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I bought my CSS1603 from o reillys over the weekend and its black.
 
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