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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
EDIT:
Although we all rely on Diesel Fuel, its surprising how little information is actually provided to us, the consumer, by the Fuel Stations, Bulk Fuels Distributor or Uncle Sam about this most basic product.

Sure we have a favorite station but do any of us know the Cetane Number of what we put in the tank? Do we know what additives have been added at the refinery? Do we know if the cold weather diesel has #1 added to it or is it simply additized?

Whether aromatic content is good or bad? Or what makes GTL a good diesel product or bad? Do we know how much bio-fuel is currently allowed in our petro-diesel without the pump even required to be labeled?

Since so little useful information is readily available to us, we have little choice but to make every attempt to improve the quality of our diesel fuel by pouring addiditves into our tanks or even a cocktail of different additives.

I thought I would start a thread that might shed some light on this subject as I do some research just to satisfy my own curiousity. I will attempt to verify the information I post and please point out any statements I make that you know to be incorrect.

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I have long thought that fuel stations should have to post their cetane ratings just like they do for gasoline octane ratings. Now that you bring it up I also think it would be a good idea to post whether it is winter blend or not. I would not hold my breath on seeing fuel information posted at fueling stations any time soon. Aside from that, how accurate would you expect it to be and can you be sure it was not mixed with something else some time before it reached your truck? There is a lot of discussion on additives though. Regardless of what is coming out of the pump it is best to regularly use a reputable additive like Stanadyne Performance Formula.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Ford Doc,

I won't hold my breath....:winking:

My research suggests that CN changes from batch to batch so its difficult to say with certainty the Cetane but I had a station in Fairbanks that would actually tell me what they tested at.

In CO, I can't even find a station manager who knows when the winter blended fuel stops for the season.

Every diesel fuel is additized (mixed with additives) specific to each retailer so it really should be possible for each branded fueling station to tell us what their specific requirements are...but I agree that is not likely to happen.

Now I bought some B11 at a Shell station in the Tri-City area and I actually got the number of the refinery and the plant manager was great. He told me all about the fuel and that it was a Soy based Biofuel.

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Back in August 2015, i did about 6 or 7 gas station and ask what was their cetane level for diesel and not one of them knew what i was talking about! They all looked at me like i was a alien.


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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Additives typically contain the following:

Viscosity/density modifiers make the bulk of it, (Naptha)

Cetane Booster (2-Ethylhexyl Nitrate) (2EHN).

Water dispersants (2-Butoxyethanol)(Naphthalene)

Detergent (Benzene, 1,2,4-trimethyl)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I am over in Asia now and the Shell stations sell a V-Power Diesel that is a blend of PetroDiesel and GTL (SynDiesel). Shell is a leader in GTL facilities.

No need to add Cetane Boost to GTL Diesel since it has a CN of >76.

But a diesel engine really sees no improvement in performance beyond 54.5 so the blend with PetroDiesel brings the CN down into the low 50's.

I think we will start seeing more of this fuel in the US since it is very clean burning and naturally very low in Sulfur. The NOx emissions are lower in these high-cetane & low aromatic fuels but they consist largely of Parafins so have cold weather issues.

I saw Shell V-Power Diesel in Canada but it is not a Synthetic Blend. It is regular Dino Diesel with an excellent additive package.
 

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ArcticDriver;4104642 I saw Shell V-Power Diesel in Canada but it is not a Synthetic Blend. It is regular Dino Diesel with an excellent additive package.[/QUOTE said:
This is the only diesel i use in my truck. It is really expensive thought, when the diesel is at .93/L the V power is around .104/L. From my last year research the diesel here is around 40 cetane and the V power around 45.


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Back in August 2015, i did about 6 or 7 gas station and ask what was their cetane level for diesel and not one of them knew what i was talking about! They all looked at me like i was a alien.
Yeah. I once asked a delivery driver (granted probably not the best source) about the cetane number of the diesel he was delivering and got the same look. :shrug03:
 

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Quick question... Just order the stanadyne performance fuel additive. Is this formula good as cetane booster, lubrican and water ? Or do should i use something else whit it?


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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quick question... Just order the stanadyne performance fuel additive. Is this formula good as cetane booster, lubrican and water ? Or do should i use something else whit it?
Yan, if you are using Canada Shell V-Power Diesel then it has the best Additive Package already.

I am not sure you can improve it with Stanadyne.

Stanadyne Performance Formula does all 3--Cetane, Lubricant & Water.

Performance Formula « Stanadyne Additives
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
The reason why i ad some additive on top of the V power is because i can seem to find the exact cetane rating and what exactly it has in the V Power
Yan,
I had some free time so I started searching for Cetane increase using V-Power (Canada version without SynDiesel) and the Shell website states its only an increase of 1-2 Cetane over their standard Diesel product.

So you are doing a smart thing addin a Cetane Boost--atleast in the winter when the cold start temps are chilly.

Most of the information is from various Canada TDI forums and those guys are real happy with V-Power.

Cheers
 

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Yan,
I had some free time so I started searching for Cetane increase using V-Power (Canada version without SynDiesel) and the Shell website states its only an increase of 1-2 Cetane over their standard Diesel product.

So you are doing a smart thing addin a Cetane Boost--atleast in the winter when the cold start temps are chilly.

Most of the information is from various Canada TDI forums and those guys are real happy with V-Power.

Cheers
???





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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
MD stickers pumps at 40. Exact same cocktail at different stations and sometimes feel the difference between stations.
Nick,

In the Denver/Rocky Mountain Region, our diesel products come from Interstate pipelines as well as local refineries. The sources (and quality) of Refinery Base Stock is constantly changing and so the Cetane Number, the weighted average of between 10,000-30,000 various molecular compositions found in Crude oil, is not a fixed value like an Octane Rating for gasoline. It seems that is why a station will only commit themselves to stating they meet the Federal minimum of 40. (Although CA minimum is 53 and Texas is 48).

I found an EPA list of registered "proprietary" Fuel Additives and the list consists of about 1,000 commercial products (no doubt several now obsolete).

This Denver-based Bulk Fueler, REX Diesel, has a brief summary of their chosen additive product here:

https://rexoilcompany.wordpress.com...els-and-fuel-additives-are-not-created-equal/

When I am stateside again, I am going to call them and see if they will provide anything more specific than they meet the minimum 40 CN.

There are a few Bulk fuel distributors in Denver and they each have their own favorite Additive "package" and contract with specific Retailers. I fill up at Shell and there are two Shell stations only 2 miles apart, one uses a Shell Diesel product and the other station uses a non-shell product. Nobody can tell me the reason.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
It seems that our greatest interest in Diesel Fuel is Cetane so here is some basic info.

Great basic description of Cetane:

http://youtu.be/WdQ4J-NFoU8


And methods to increasing Cetane Number (defined as the fuels ability to self-ignite): https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/r03002.pdf

"The cetane number of diesel fuel can be increased in two different ways: naturally, and via the use of additives. The "natural" approach involves the modification of various physical properties of diesel fuel, via changes to the concentration of various diesel fuel components" ( cetane, aromatics, and specific gravity).
Other bulk blending components that could increase the natural cetane number of conventional diesel fuel but which would generally be added at significantly larger concentrations are biodiesel and Fischer-Tropsch (GTL) diesel.

The second approach uses additized cetane (Fuel Additive) as the independent variable instead of natural cetane. Additized cetane is here defined as increases in the total cetane number brought about through the use of small quantities (~1 vol% or less) of compounds designed to specifically and solely bring about this result. Examples of such cetane improver additives include 2-ethylhexylnitrate (2EHN) and di- tertiary butyl peroxide.

There is good reason to believe that additized cetane and natural cetane describe identical, or at least similar, combustion mechanisms, since both additized and natural cetane are measures of a fuel's propensity to auto-ignite.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
One of the best articles I have found about Cetane:

AutoSpeed - Diesel cetane ratings

The last 3 paragraphs may shed some light on why the US only requires a CN of 40, since the trucking indistry in the US does not want high cetane.
 

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Very good reading AD, as I've mentioned before, every station manager I've spoke to here has no idea what the cetane rating of their diesel is, i have discovered that BP is the only one to mention their cetane rating at 45.

In the far north of Queensland the fuel gets up to $250 per liter, so with an additive in it as well Rislone Diesel Fuel System Repair - 500mL - Supercheap Auto Australia , it puts the cost of diesel up to a price that stops us from driving as much as we would like to.
The additive that is mentioned doesn't say the cetane rating it boost your fuel to, but it does increase it.
What is the highest cetane rating you've see, and where?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Googs,

I think the only guys who actually know the Cetane of a specific "batch" of diesel fuel wear white coats and work in the lab at the refinery/distillery and even that batch they randomly test is going to be unique from the day before and then all diesel receives a bulk additive with a Cetane Boost once it arrives at the bulk fuels distributor as its loaded into the tanker for delivery to the retail service station underground tanks where it is diluted with the remaining diesel from the last delivery ;-)

At the consumer level, the most we can hope to know is the minimum Cetane either required by law or that a producer like Exxon advertises. And even that can only be taken on faith.

We have a Suncor refinery in Denver and I am thinking my best bet is to go for a pint at the nearest pub at shift change and start buying rounds and asking questions.
 

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We have a Suncor refinery in Denver and I am thinking my best bet is to go for a pint at the nearest pub at shift change and start buying rounds and asking questions.
Hmmm, good luck with that AD . :grin2:

I think if our BP diesel is rated at 46 and we add a cetane booster with a water separator we should still get a much shorter delay between the start of the injection and ignition. This should make our motor a lot happier. :SM127:
 
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