[amberjax]

Talked with my local leaf spring shop today. He is telling me that everyone on this message board is WRONG!!! About what you ask? I have read post after post on here discussing that using stock F250 front springs with a Dana 60 will make your truck ride like a log cart. He is telling me that I will get a better ride by using my 250 springs, having new bushings installed, having the springs re-shaped and then adding a leaf to them. He claims that putting a stronger spring in the truck because of the weight of the diesel will make it ride better. All this at a cost of between $400 to $500 bucks!!! Please someone confirm to me that he has lost his mind!!

 

[BlueMule]

He's not lost his mind, He's just thinking about that $400-$500 he wants you to spend in his shop.

If adding another leaf to an already stiff suspension will make it ride better then maybe you should just remove the springs altogether and replace them with a section of railroad track.

 

[amberjax]

Thank Ya Brother!!

 

[action4478]

[ QUOTE ]
He's not lost his mind, He's just thinking about that $400-$500 he wants you to spend in his shop.

If adding another leaf to an already stiff suspension will make it ride better then maybe you should just remove the springs altogether and replace them with a section of railroad track.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROTFL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

 

[Garbage_Mechanic]

It never fails to amaze me how many spring shops truely do not understand these issues. Ask him to explain spring rate to you! I'll bet he can't. His ideas are not wrong entirely, just wrong for this suspension. On some applications if there is very little rubber stopper clearance, arching the spring and adding a leaf so it will stay up there will give the suspension travel, and elimenate bottoming, which will improve ride. In this case NOT.

I have a close friend that does understand, he has spent his life in suspension. He spent some years working for National Spring, now works for a spring manufacturer that also has suspension repair shops (for HD trucks)

The spring industry has spent years working towards springs that are compliant, last long and carry a load. Guess what they come up with every time? Longer springs with less leaves that are tapered in thickness. The 2004 Super Duty spring has gone about as far in that direction as it will go, the onlyu thing better is coils, oh wait, that came out in 2005!

 

[caryt]

Ya mean I been doing all this wrong..I apologize to all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Another perfect example of whats wrong with the vast majority of business's! Tell the truth do the best or stand aside and let others make the $$.


cary

 

[Aljay]

[ QUOTE ]
Ya mean I been doing all this wrong..I apologize to all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Another perfect example of whats wrong with the vast majority of business's! Tell the truth do the best or stand aside and let others make the $$.


cary

[/ QUOTE ]

Aman brother.! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

 

[PSDfreak]

[ QUOTE ]
He's not lost his mind, He's just thinking about that $400-$500 he wants you to spend in his shop.

If adding another leaf to an already stiff suspension will make it ride better then maybe you should just remove the springs altogether and replace them with a section of railroad track.

[/ QUOTE ]


hahahaha...thats funny right there...I would like to see someone tell me that their add-a-leaf made the ride SOFTER.

 

[Ford_Forgotton]

[ QUOTE ]
The spring industry has spent years working towards springs that are compliant, last long and carry a load. Guess what they come up with every time? Longer springs with less leaves that are tapered in thickness. The 2004 Super Duty spring has gone about as far in that direction as it will go, the onlyu thing better is coils, oh wait, that came out in 2005!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, if you watch the new superduty comercials, they go on and on about how they lengthened the REAR springs to give it even more load capacity. So they arent done with springs totally yet.

And really, all a coil spring is, is a leaf spring wrapped up around itself. This allows for tighter turning radius, as the front tires will no longer impact the spring on a really tight turn.

 

[tracyb]

[ QUOTE ]

And really, all a coil spring is, is a leaf spring wrapped up around itself. This allows for tighter turning radius, as the front tires will no longer impact the spring on a really tight turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

i wouldn't totally agree with the analogy of a coil just being a leaf wrapped aroud itself. a coil can be allot better than a spring for more than turning radius. such as, the focusing its job on suspending rather than axle location letting location be handled by the links, (also make for a better ride,) and most importantly the possibities of multiple spring rates.

but on the topic of the post i agree with the general consensus.

 

[amberjax]

Believe it or not, I talked with another specialty spring shop in Miss. and he suggested the same thing. "I can add a leaf to yours and it will be great! I've fixed over 100 of those trucks like that." And that was a direct quote!!

 

[Garbage_Mechanic]

Daryl, I meant to say the 04 SD springs were the end of the line for FRONT springs, but what you mentioned on the 05 and again 08 rear springs furthered my point of LONGER tapered leaves.

 

[caryt]

Ya just keep proving my point /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif belive someone trying to take $$ out of your pocket or US..basically your choice. Just remember what PT Barnum said /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Car

 

[danjreed]

The problem with taking your truck to the spring shops is that they normally (or strictly) use only stock-type or commercial-made aftermarket parts designed for these trucks.
What the shops are saying is that if the springs are sagging enough to let the axle hit the bumpstops a lot, then yes, doing the add-a-leaf will help keep that from happening. But, you've still got the unequal spring lengths on either side(fore-aft) of the axle. AND, you've still got springs being twisted as the TTB articulates.
I had all but the main leaf on both rear packs broken when I got my truck, so i was riding on the overload almost all the time. Putting in a full new set made the ride soooooo much nicer. No more bouncing and pounding at every bump in the road.

What CaryT and BlueMule are saying is that adding a leaf won't make the ride softer, but actually make it stiffer. But, it will keep you from hitting the bump-stops, making it seem less harsh.
Since you say you're in the process of doing a D60, I'd go with the SD springs and a RSK.

 

[amberjax]

Yeah,
I've been contemplating this for about a week now. I have the SD springs in my driveway but after reading many, many posts with pictures, I just can't get over the look of the front bumper moved away from the fender wells so far. Hell, I've gone so far as to email Shannon because no one has heard from him in so long (according to the dates on his posts). He emailed me back and he is in China working, but he says his truck is still riding great! I don't think he had any bumper issues with his, but I'm not sure if I want to do that much modification(time wise). Another option that one of my friend suggested was to notch the bumper and then try and find some kind of brush guard or something to hide the notches. But don't know if that's possible. I'm really leaning towards getting 2 new stock springs and then doing the RSK. At least I'll fix one of the mistakes made by Ford and also get at least a 50% better ride than I have with the stock 250 with worn out bushings and springs and the tires hitting the bumper. I am sure of one thing though...... I'M TIRED OF LOOKING AT THE TRUCK SITTING IN THE DRIVEWAY WITH NO AXLE!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[caryt]

If your keeping the old axel and not doing a D60 swap I don't think you'll see a 50% better ride..except it won't bottom. Who has done a RS kit with a stock F250 axel?

Id your putting the D60 in then do the SD springs and notch the bumper..there will be a aftermarket winch style bumper to work with this mod this year.

The ride will more than make up for the looks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Cary

 

[STurbo90]

[ QUOTE ]
Hell, I've gone so far as to email Shannon because no one has heard from him in so long (according to the dates on his posts). He emailed me back and he is in China working, but he says his truck is still riding great! I don't think he had any bumper issues with his, but I'm not sure if I want to do that much modification(time wise).

[/ QUOTE ]



Hmm, must be an east coast thing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, I pm'd and emailed him and he never got back to me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


I was interested in his swap also, but there are a few items I can't figure how he worked around. He does say he did not do the work himself in his writeup, so I assume other stuff had to be done that he was not aware of.

Caryt always reposts his writeup, but has indicated he has no other info on the actual conversion.


Did he mention any other items not listed in his original writeup??

Specifically, how the frame and spring offset was dealt with??

I bought the SD frame mount,

this piece

to size it up, but he says he used the original SD shackle, but the OBS frame is offset on both side of the springs vs only offset on one side on the SD and the SD shackle is a fixed shackle.

OBS offset

SD offset

as seen in the difference here.


The fuel and brake lines are in the way also, but that would be easy to fix.

If he gave you any other pointers could you post them up, thanks.

 

[amberjax]

Cut a hole in the frame a little bigger than the rear spring mount (at first we thought we were going to have to build some offset into the rear mount, but the rear mounts already have offset built into them and they bolted into the hole fine)[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

When he replied to my email he didn't have any additional information or tips. He just told me that the whole conversion was pretty straight fwd. I would asssume from the quote above that the offest he was referring to was the one you are talking about. Did you buy the rear mount from a 2000 model?? Maybe they are different? How about width of the leaf spring seats on the OBS vs. the SD? Are they the same axles? It's funny that you noticed the difference cause I didn't catch it. I looked extensively at an 02 and 03. The only thing I did notice was that the front of our frame is built exactly like the 03' frame. It just seems weird that the frames seems like the same width etc. and there is any offset like that in the rear. Got me!!! Do you have SD springs or just the stock springs with the RSK ? How does it ride if you have the stock springs?

 

[STurbo90]

Yeah, that's from a 2000, but they are all the same, the SD in the pic above is a 2002 and its identical to the part I have.

As far as the springs, they are the same width, but on the SD axle the spring pads are about 1/4" difference, but he never mentions moving the spring pads on his original axle, and I don't think he would use the SD axle, unless he changed the rear to match the bolt pattern.

As far as my truck I have the RS kit with the stock springs, the kit took the hard hitting bumps out of the ride, but the smaller repetitive bumps remain about the same as without the kit.

The reason I wanted to do the SD mount the way Shannon did was to be able to use the longer shackle like the SD, instead of the short shackle supplied with the RS kit. You can see the difference in the pics above about the shackle length.

I know what you mean about not noticing it before, from Shannon's write up it sounds like a slam dunk, but I just cannot figure it out,

so either they did something else he's not mentioning, or I may just be the dumbest person on this board for not being able to figure it out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif

 

[amberjax]

When I get some time within the next few days, I gonna crawl up under another SD and look again at that elusive rear mount and maybe take some measurements. There's got to be an easy answer to the puzzle that we are just not seeing.