[1JRS]

:ugh2:
My truck is in the shop right now and I'm scared like hell when I get it back to go get diesel anywhere. Is there a place where I can get a really good filtration system to separate water from desiel (please I only want answer from pros who really know what there talking about). Additives are out since Ford calls those fuel additives a contamination that void your warranty and a Dr. Jekyll lab kit complete with beakers and centrifuge in order to tell if I'm getting decent fuel seems a little hard to tote from station to station but if it saves another 12 grand and repairs I'm willing to try it. Let me start by saying that I just joined the water in fuel HPFP failure club this week. I purchased a 2014 Ford F350 XLT with the 6.7 L turbo diesel that is part of their certified preowned vehicles with 51,582 miles on it. It comes with a 12,000 bumper-to-bumper warranty and the truck now has 61,102 miles so it still has over 1000 miles left on the premium bumper to bumper warranty as part of their certified preowned guarantee. I have owned the truck now for three months and after a month I changed the fuel filter and oil and in the process found out that the feel filter had not been changed or checked by Ford. It was completely packed in mud that ran all through the threads of the filter housing and the filter was black and filthy along with several other things they have apparently missed in your 200 point inspection. After we change the filter and for the last two months I have been getting a high pressure sensing code P228F that would come on and a few hours later go back off. Usually about the time I would pull into the dealership. Ford always seem to have a two or three day wait before they can get to your vehicle and with the check engine light off I was told there may not be an issue. The truck is running and driving fine and once again the light came on for a few hours the othe morning and went back off and. Since I'm close to my B2B warranty being out I decided to do the smart thing and take it in to have them check it out. Three days later I get a call back saying there is metal in my feul system that my HPFP has self destructed. They said the repair bill would be around $12,000 and said that I could put it on my comprehensive insurance. After reading this forum I found out that there is a warning light that comes on WIFL When you have water in your fuel. I never once saw this light come on. I spoke to the man at the service department and told him that I had never seen this light come on Meaning that there is a defective sensor and shouldn't that be covered under the bumper-to-bumper warranty.
This is the email that I sent.

This is the owner of the Super Duty XLT 350 6.7 liter turbo diesel
vinxxxxxxxxx
that you found metal in the fuel system.
I spoke with you and Mr. Xxxx yesterday. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to meet with me regarding the issue. In our meeting I voiced my concerns about the poor condition that some of the parts on the vehicle were left in and provided evidence that would indicate that critical components of the fuel filtration systems and other secondary components were not properly maintained prior to my purchase of this vehicle. That I had taken photographs of the these findings roughly 40 days after the time of my vehicles purchase during the first time maintenance was being performed on the vehicle by 3rd party mechanics who are witnessed in the photos pointing out these defects. You said that you would like to have a copy of these photos sent to you and I will attach them to this email.
I had mentioned to you that I would like to see the service records for this vehicle since it is a certified pre owned vehicles. Also if it is possible I would like to receive a report of the computer alert codes that have been been recorded by the vehicles computer system. This may give us a recording of the times that the check engine light has come on and gone back off and on as well as the fact that the vehicle has never given a water in fuel light warning either.
From what I've recently read Chevrolet is warranting vehicles when there high pressure fuel pump fails and did not give a warning of water in the fuel. I was wondering if this was the case on the Ford trucks as well. If water in the system is the culprit and a failure of that sensor would that fall under the coverage since the truck still has a 1000 plus miles left on the Premium bumper to bumper warranty that comes with certified pre-owned guarantee. If you would please let me know when you drop the fuel tank as we discussed yesterday I would like to try to be there to possibly see what we are dealing with.
Thank you for your time Xxxxxxx.
A few days later when I went to the Ford dealership there was definitely water in the gas tank and metal shavings and my fuel filter. It was hard to quantify how much water was in the tank and I'm quite sure the dealership will never under any circumstances let a customer drain 20 gallons of fuel into small clear bottles and wiping them down with oily rags not matter how sincere their claim to check for water contamination is. My insurance adjuster came out and looked at it and I'm just hoping that they decide to cover me on this. Keep me in your prayers!

 

[Scag2400]

Dieselsite makes the best aftermarket filtration system for the 6.7s. It costs around 600 bucks but takes about 10 min to install and they have a great video on how to install. It adds 2 more filters and will shut the truck off if it picks up water before it costs you 12k

 

[blwnsmoke]

I think you posted this on PS.org a week or two back. I installed a diesel site filter as mentioned above this post just because of this issue because of how sensitive these fuel systems are. Seems you have a few issues. First is the dealership not changing the fuel filter. They are $699 but piece of mind is well worth the price tag. The filters will absorb the water not allowing it to pass through.

Here is a copy of the 172 point inspection that a dealer is required to do in order to certify it. Under section 6D, # 117 is "fuel filter". It should not pass looking like that.

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/global/pdf/cpo/ford_cpo.pdf

I'd print off this list and go right to the service manager or GM of the dealership and ask how is it that they "passed" the fuel filter on the list with it being full of mud and dirty like this. Clearly they didn't change it.

However even with a clean fuel filter, if you have a tank of water, that in itself will point to an insurance claim as that came straight from a fueling station. Having a dirty filter like that shows that the truck was neglected in regards to routine service and buying used there is always a risk of the "unknown".

If your insurance company denies the claim, you need to go higher up. Water in your tank falls under your comprehensive insurance.

PS - your title is a little misleading.. this isn't Ford's fault if you have a tank of water.. and they have every write not to pay to replace a fuel system destroyed by a tank of water.

 

[txpete]

1JRS: I started the "WIF and ESP" thread and feel your pain. As mentioned in my thread, the Ford dealer did NOT even file a claim against ESP! It took a lot of crying to my insurance company, with them even issuing a letter denying the claim, but they eventually came around. The failure of the HPFP on these vehicles is a crying shame and wish we could do something about it. I'm in favor of water dispersing additives as I assume they "might" work. You've heard from several that the answer is to fill up only at truck stops - I'm going to do that dispite the increase in costs including the long drive to get to the truck stop. I assume there is a way to lower the cost of repairs, as my final bill was much less than the initially quoted $9000 - maybe the insurance folks twisted their arms? But, check my thread: the repair tech forgot to install a vacuum line and I had the pleasure of 2 CELs on the drive home and another week of repairs at my local dealer, only after he forced the first dealer to write a P.O. for the repairs and clear the 2 CELs.

 

[RT]

Tx Pete - you don't want water dispersing additives. You want the water to be consolidated out of the fuel so it can be stopped by a filter. A demulsifier, not an emulsifier.

While I personally will never purchase a 6.7, I do have a suggestion for fuel treatment. This is something I do on my own truck, although I would modify it slightly for a common rail engine. I never put fuel straight from the pump into my tank. I put it into a separate tank, treat it with additives (in my case 2 stroke oil and Standadyne, but I'd probably use OptiLube XPD if I did have a 6.7) and then I run it through a ultra low micron filter. Again if I had a 6.7, I would modify this to include a true water blocking filter. Not a water separator as you all see how well those DON'T work with ULSD, but a true water blocking filter. You can't run those inline on your actual truck for safety reasons. They don't want your truck stalling in the middle of traffic. Not that the 6.7 doesn't already do that by itself whenever a sensor malfunctions....

 

[1JRS]

It wasn't me on the power stroke.org site this is my first time really joining a diesel truck discussion forum and I'm really glad I did. I am Really great for the information you guys give are giving me. Looks like I'll be getting those filters you mentioned.
Next.To add to this horrible experience I got a strong feeling of no confidence at the dealership when I was trying to ask them about my turbocharger. I asked them should it remain at the same boost pressure if I'm driving let's say 80 miles an hour or does it lose pressure as it is maintaining the speed since it no longer needs the boost. The older diesels turbo trucks that I have owned used seemed to maintain their boost at a certain RPM or above. I asked if it was a new feature that the boost pressure drops in order to save wear on the turbo. The service manager said that he didn't know but we could ask his machanic. The service manager started talking with the mechanic who is working on my truck at the dealership who was doesn't speak much English. About the only answer that we can get from him after he repeating the same question 10 times was the fact that he said and I quote. "I do not know much about these engines. I have never owned our driven one of the trucks and I can't tell you what they do or are supposed to do when they are driven. I just know how to fix it when the computer code tells me that something needs fixing." Being their charging me a hefty top notch mechanic price estimate just under $12,000 to fix this I think I would like a better response that reflects a working knowledge of the vehicle they are repairing. Insurance looks like they may be the ones to pay for this I am probably going to recommend them carry the vehicle to another dealership and or repair shop. Does anybody know someplace in the DFW area that they could recommend.

 

[1JRS]

Oh yeah the dealership admitted they did not take a look at the fuel filter on the truck after they after they purchased this truck at a dealer auction of certified preowned. I sent them pictures also of the wiper blades and other items that obviously were never checked. I'm not one of those guys who live to nit pick stuff but this is put me in a cover my interest position.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Oh yeah the dealership admitted they did not take a look at the fuel filter on the truck after they after they purchased this truck at a dealer auction of certified preowned. I sent them pictures also of the wiper blades and other items that obviously were never checked. I'm not one of those guys who live to nit pick stuff but this is put me in a cover my interest position.

I would be all over this dealership for what I believe is fraud. They are required to do the 172 point check for a vehicle to be certified. If they are certifying a vehicle without doing the checklist, it is outright fraud.

Every certified vehicle is suppose to get brand new wipers (just to add to your comment about yours not being new) and a new oil change as well (doubt this happened).

Keep in mind that no matter if they did that for you, it still wouldn't have prevented water that is in your tank from killing your fuel system. BUT, if they didn't inspect the most important parts of the truck, what else didn't they inspect?

I certainly would be taking that truck to another dealer with the inspection and asking them to do it. Pay them out of your pocket and see what they find wrong. Then that gives you even more ammunition towards the selling dealer. That is just my $0.02.

Oh, and don't forget that you pay for that certified warranty. The dealer has to pay Ford for a certified vehicle and that gets passed on to you. So you were paying for these services and didn't get them. It is estimated that a certified vehicle costs $3,000-$4,000 more then a non certified. Also remember that you have a 5yr/100k engine warranty.

 

[twdiesel]

Black fuel filters are normal, its asphaltene , and is normal for the filter to turn this color over time, the mud I can't explain, this guy has some good info on fuel Source Of Diesel Fuel Problems its a little out dated but the fuel that is refined today is the around good package.

Every time I read posts on certified inspections I laugh. The certification is only as good as the person doing the certifying , in most cases the entire process is deceiving.

 

[SkiSmuggs]

Ford approved fuel additives do not invalidate your warranty. Ford recommends and sells PM-22A cetane booster which probably has a demusifier in it as well as lubricant. I don't know where to find a list of approved products, but I am sure Opti-Lube and Stanadyne are approved as well. But they are still effective only for minor condensation, not a pint of water in the tank.

 

[RT]

Isn't it strange that all of the "findings" of water in the tank by dealerships that facilitate the denying of HPFP claims always find the equivalent of one water bottle of water in the tank. I mean, it's not like they had, means, motive , and opportunity or anything...