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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Every time that I think I have a handle on these, they seem to explode in my mind. I know what each of the letters stand for, Gross Combined Weight Rating,........etc., and I know what they mean. What's confusing me, is the application of the ratings.

Example: My truck, 6.7 diesel, 3.55's, srw, has a GCWR of 23,500 pounds, a GVWR of 11.5k, and the truck weighs ~7.5k. If I have an 18.5k fifth wheel with pin weight of 3k, and drop the pin in the back of the truck, the truck now weighs 10.5k. The actual trailer weight after hook up is 15.5k. If the total rig was sitting on a scale, the total weight would be 26k. Is the truck overloaded? The 10.5 does not exceed the GVWR, and the 15.5k trailer does not exceed the max trailer weight of 15.7k pounds. Is the trailer weight, the weight as it's hooked up with the 3k sitting on the truck? Or, is it the total sitting weight of the trailer, unhooked?

Thanks for any assistance.
 

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What year and is it a crew cab and 4X4? My truck weighs over 8K basically empty.

From the Ford 2013 Towing Guide.
Your total weight is 26K and your truck is rated for 23,500.
Total weight of a fifth wheel you can pull is 15,900, you are 18.5K

If I understand your question correctly, the weight of the trailer is the weight of just the trailer on the scale and your's is 18.5K.

The way I see it. In Canada by law and by Ford you would be over loaded. There is always a debate, but if you are one mile/hour or 30 miles/hour over the speed limit, at what speed do you call yourself a speeder?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks MPD; I really wasn't trying to be truck specific. I just wanted some clarification on the numbers that I listed. And I guess the big question for me is the 'Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight' and what the truck can haul. Per my understanding, and using your numbers, the truck can haul/pull a 15.9k pound trailer and the trailer weighs 18.5k pounds. "BUT", 3k pounds (pin weight) of the trailer is sitting in the bed of the truck and is part of the GVW of the truck, which is no longer a part of the trailer weight. As such, the truck is really hauling/pulling 15.5k pounds, and the truck is still well within it's GVW. Can you see my confusion?
 

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Yes I can see your confusion and hope I can help.

This is where the engineers get in. There is a lot of things that go into these numbers.

The truck is certifed to pull a 15,900 pound fifth wheel trailer safely. So I ask you, do you have a 16K Maxium rated hitch, it should be rated over 18.5K? Your truck is designed to stop 15,900 pounds safely, that is what your truck is going to have to do if you trialer brakes quit working. You're looking too hard at what your truck can pull and of course it can, they put the same engine is a F450. Carrying, Pulling and Stopping the weight goes into the equation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks again, MPD. I bought the Curt Gooseneck ball and loop/hooks that fit the Ford 5th wheel prep, rated at 30k pounds. Also, I was just on their site, and they define the actual trailer weight as the curb weight 'minus' the pin weight, as that weight is part of the GVW. So, in actuality, I would be towing 15.5k pounds, but would still be exceeding GCWR.
 

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Don't forget your axle weights too, each axle has it's legal limit, should be on the white tag at the drivers door. 3K pin could have the potential to put your rear truck axle weight over the limit. I assume the 5th wheel is a camping trailer, remember that 3K is a moving target, depending on how you load the trailer, how much is in each holding tank and where the tank is located (before or aft axles).

Best to hook up and take it to a scale with the trailer loaded ready to go and get a number on each axle. Those are the numbers that will matter to DOT if you ever have an issue to be checked and if you have warranty left on the truck and the dealer is on the ball, he'll be interested too. An overloaded axle/truck will give them everything they need to "turn and burn"
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Phil, the axles are like everybody's (I think), rear a little over 7k and front, a little over 5k, with gvwr of 11.5k. I haven't received the five yet, and will weigh it before I get it home. I think I'll be a little over on gcwr, but well within limits on truck gvwr, pin weight (gawr for truck), and towed trailer weight (gaw)
 

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Here's the way it works in a nutshell.

GVWR - The maximum weight your loaded truck can legally weigh.
GCWR - The maximum weight your loaded truck AND trailer can weigh
Within those, the GAWR for each axle can't be exceeded either.
The trailer will also have a GVWR and GAWR.

Say you had a GVWR of 10000 lb and GAWR of 5000 lb for both front and rear. If weighed the loaded truck at 10000 lb, but the rear axle was at 6000 lb and the front was at 4000 lb, you'd be overloaded, even though you were within GVWR.

The way to do it is to weigh each axle separately (if possible to get just one axle on the scale - if not you'd need to weigh front and rearmost axles and do some simple subtraction to get the middle axle weight assuming you had a truck and single axle trailer)

To complicate things a bit, GAWR's for front and rear can sometimes add up to more than GVWR, so you couldn't max out both GAWRs and still be within legal GVWR.
 

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FYI:This is with my 2008 F350 on the scale packed light and my 2013 weighs more.

2008 F350 on the Cat scale.
Steer Axle: 5180 lb
Drive Axle: 3700 lb
Trailer Axle: 0000 lb
Gross Weight: 8880

2008 F350 with trialer on Cat scale.
Steer Axle: 5180 lb
Drive Axle: 6440 lb
Trailer Axle: 8620 lb
Gross Weight: 20240 lb

My pin's dry weight is 2740 lbs and puts the drive axle at 6440 lbs. I have also pulled a friends 17,000 lb plus triple axle toy hauler loaded and it for sure puts me over the weight limits. Even with two ATV's in the garage that takes pin weight off the addition of two fat men in the back seat still has the axle over 7000 lbs.
As to your other thread, the truck pulls the trailer fine and I don't notice a problem in the mountains.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Two fat men in the back seat, huh? LOL. Well hauling that weight in the mountains with little or no difficulty is good to hear. Basically, I'm a worrier, and knowing that I'm going to be a little over gross, worries me,.....a little. I've been towing trailers for about 40 years, and consciously weighing the rigs for about 30; always have stayed within limits. The gcwr of 23.5k seems pretty low for this 6.7.
 

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Two fat men in the back seat, huh? LOL. Well hauling that weight in the mountains with little or no difficulty is good to hear. Basically, I'm a worrier, and knowing that I'm going to be a little over gross, worries me,.....a little. I've been towing trailers for about 40 years, and consciously weighing the rigs for about 30; always have stayed within limits. The gcwr of 23.5k seems pretty low for this 6.7.
That's why I drink non-lite beer and sit in the front to keep the front end down. After hunting season I change back to lite LOL>

I have a 3.31 rear end in the 2013, the 2008 had a 3.73 so I would say that the 2013 F350 is a little slower off the start but again no problem. Like a said, same motor in the F450 so pulling is not a problem. On my 2013 the pin sits an inch more ahead of the rear axle so I sit level, with the 2008 it sat a few inches higher in the front but by the scale you can see that it didn't take any wieght from the front tires so handling wasn't a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Good information, kl, thanks.

MD, do you have 3 vehicles? 2013, 2008, and an f450? Or was 450 a mistype? Which one pulled the toy hauler?
 

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I had a 2008 F350 SRW and now a 2013 F350 SRW for personal vehicles. I mention the F450 only to say that the engine drivetrain can all be the same. I've pulled the Toy Hauler with both F350's and my friend pulls it with a dodge 3500 SRW with air bags (My Crew Cab has more room fat guys). Some people call me that weight police but I just state the facts as I see it. If the true pin weight is 3000 pounds, I believe that you are going to be OK if the truck is not taking any weight off the front tires. The Sticker on the truck can't be changed

At work I have access to the full range of the Super Duties, gas or diesel and can drive and compare. We have Ford Certified Techs. They get sensitive if I appear on the shop floor and I shouldn't ask personal questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The 450 should have a 3.73 or 4.10 rear end; that would make a big difference; that option is not available to srw's. I had my truck weight 2 years ago, along with my travel trailer, and it came in just under 8k., and it was loaded in the back. I think everything's going to work out. Thanks for your input.
 

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??? on the 3.73 or 4.10s for the F450. The only rear ratio I've seen has been 4.30s - my 2015 has 4.30, wish it were 4.10 for fuel economy. That said, the 6.7 engine and Ford transmission will definitely pull your trailer. Stopping, well that depends on your brakes (I have disc brakes on my 17.5 5er. Love both.
 

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You do not want to operate the vehicle from a liability stand point over any of the weight ratings. All of the individual ratings are set where they are for a reason.
 

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Best I know, only ratios available since the pickups came out in 2010 are 4.30s, with the '08 having some made with 4.88s. Might be some exceptions, but 98+% of 2010-up 450s should have the 4.30s. And the '15/'16 350s with max tow have 4.30s also.
The '08-10s had 14500 gross/9500rawr for the most part. Everything since then has been 14000? GVWR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I mistyped; the 350 DRW has 3.73 or 4.10's. The 450 has 4.30's. I just checked my brochure.
 
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