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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys.

For years I've participated in threads about our electrical system. And for years I've usually done pictorials for improvements / repairs.

So this time I figured I'd try making some videos from the iPad my daughter got me. So first time video and YouTube! Unfortunately I've been dealing with a nasal issue and you'll have to suffer with the voice, not that its ever good.

Over the years there have been some people with issues of the passenger battery failing before the drivers side, and I believe this video shows the cause. It also establishes a good base for other improvements such as higher output alternators, and I'm finishing up some video work for those too. Well, unless this gets panned to much.

So here is the segment illustrating the 6.0 layout and I think based on the tests I've been doing the best bang for the buck. It's just not red and flashy. I'm going to post this on several of the forums I've been on over the last 15 years.

http://youtu.be/YZSX_X1vzf0
 

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Fantastic video with great information. Does the 7.3 have the same deficit in its setup?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
RT,

Thanks.

I'll have to look at the service diagram to see what it shows.

Some of the work in the other videos I'll be finishing was based on some of the questions DRCampbell, you, me, and a number of people talked about a few years back.

On Edit, my 2001 diagram gives no indication of cable sizes, but the 2003 7.3L shows the exact same as the 6.0L. I haven't been following the 7.3 forum since I got the 6.0 in '03, so do the 7.3 guys occasionally see the passenger battery to be the first to go? Even if not that 24" cable is an improvement.
 

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The other deficit in the system is the alternator being connected directly to the RH battery. You would think the 2 ga batt to batt cable would have no Vdrop but it does. I have done +post to +post Vdrop during high charge and there is often a 0.2V or even a bit more between the points. Adding a 6 ga cable from alternator output stud to the LH batt eliminates this.
I have done it on a half dozen trucks but the oldest is my own truck 4 years ago. My truck still has the batteries I installed then in it and they are doing great but that is too small of a sample to say much bout the effectiveness. It makes me feel better to know the loads of the rest of system are coming more directly from alternator. The LH battery +post terminal is where all but glow plugs comes from.
 

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I'm not sure anyone has paid enough attention to which battery goes first to establish a pattern. Could you take a couple close up pictures of exactly where you put the new cable? I didn't catch that in the video. I assume anywhere on the block to anywhere on either frame rail would do it.
 

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I'm not sure anyone has paid enough attention to which battery goes first to establish a pattern. Could you take a couple close up pictures of exactly where you put the new cable? I didn't catch that in the video. I assume anywhere on the block to anywhere on either frame rail would do it.

I think is from the ground already attached to the block and the frame. To link both cable together for more flow


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
RT,

Across the forums it appears to be the trend of the passenger battery. There are a couple of threaded locations available on the 6.0 heads, and some people seem to believe on the later year motors there are 3/8-16 holes as well. I can't check that but I'm having a really hard time agreeing there is anything but metric threads on these.

The frame rail connection is to the same bolt the attaches the drivers negative cable. I'm attaching images.

I'm going to end up with 3 or 4 videos going over the cabling, sizing, alternator outputs, and voltage drops.

Jimmy, I'm not getting as poor results as that, and the voltage drop will also depend on the current going across those cables. With my 230 amp alternator when its outputting at a rate of 145 amps (stock cables with the exception of an additional 8ga cable running alternator post to passenger battery and the additional negative cable between the frame ground point and engine block noted in the video) the voltage drop I see from the alternator post is 0.178v to the passenger battery, 0.217v to the drivers battery, and therefore a drop battery to battery of only 0.043v.

That 2ga cable between the batteries can handle the charging current flow. It's even OK under the higher current starting inrush of 245a showing a max voltage drop of about 0.3v, well under what many consider acceptable voltage drop in starting mode. You can improve that as I will show in the upcoming video, but it's not a necessity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
For some reason I can only post 1 image per post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I think is from the ground already attached to the block and the frame. To link both cable together for more flow


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Yep, with the factory layout the connection between the frame rails to the engine block is only the 8ga wire siamessed with the drivers side cable. Theoretically it can flow a good amount due to its short length, but it causes 50 more amps to be drawn from the passenger battery. Add the new cable and that 50a comes from the drivers battery due to the now equal cables between both batteries negative terminals and the engine block.

I've been running the additional ground cable since I got new batteries almost three years ago and battery tests show then both even in ability and rated over their stated CCA.
 

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Great advice Jack. Thanks for taking the time. It seemed that the engine cranked better with the 1/0 ground cable modification. I have some 1/0 Ancor marine cable left over from my boat rewiring project and intend to execute this project. Very timely as well as I will be replacing my batteries this week. Thanks again.
 

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Nice work and video. I've only been able to figure out how to do one image at a time as well.
So 7.3s have this same set up? I do have a battery go out before the other but never noticed which side in a pattern but it may have and never made a mental note. I need one, I buy both because the next one is a couple months away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks guys.

Also being by the water, I'm using marine cable too. I measured the current several times both with and without the jumper cable and the numbers ran true every time. I've been playing with this since June. With winter coming up it will give me the opportunity to recheck the changes under cold conditions since cold oil and motors not only provide higher starting torques, but the batteries are under tougher conditions as well.

Nick, my diagrams for the 7.3 show the same layout but but do not show the cable sizes. I don't have a 7.3 to confirm.
 

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I am of the opinion that this is one fine as frog's hair write up.

What I like:
A real problem was identified and verified.
An explanation of the problem was provided.
A schematic was provided.
A solution was provided.
The solution was explained.
A confirmation of the rectification was performed?
The quality of video and audio was very good.




What's missing?

A nomination for it to be archived along side of other threads archived for others to easily find.
My gosh, new device and first video? Look out Dieseltechron!


This write up has my admiration and vote for it to be Archived into the appropriate place.

It's a top shelf piece that belongs on that shelf.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Thanks Nick (while I'm laughing). When my voice gets better and I learn to edit and voice over I'll be replacing that one.

You'll have to suffer for 2 or 3 more videos as I'm doing on more wire upgrades, testing, and alternator options.

The alternator I'm using in an upcoming video is a Leece-Neville 230 amp unit.

They are self regulated internally and the pigtail on a 6.0L plugs right in, but it also is used on 7.3L and other motors. You have to provide you own pulley as mentioned above and they give you longer mounting bolts due to the size of the alternator case. I show a 140a and this 230a unit in my upcoming work.

They carry a Ford part number as commercial Ford dealers sell them for their larger weight class 6.0l applications. So does International and other truck manufacturers. I've seen Ford pricing over $900, XDP sells them for about $350, but they come up new on eBay now and again for as low as $250 from some commercial vendors.

I've seen L-N alternators on commercial and transit applications for decades during my career, really huge units. My info is that they use welded diodes and the unit has two fans internally, so they are building them for heat. For part of my video project I shot a temp scan of the unit after a 35-45 minute run and it only showed 135F. It was daytime with only A/C running prior so not a high load, and with A/C off it was only putting out 15a since the batteries were I believe fully charged. We could play with variables of temp vs amp all day to get different readings, but I'm just stating what I recorded under those conditions. If you go to their site they show a brochure of the the units, Ford part numbers, etc.

But ..... It is way overkill, IMO, for daily driving. I am only using it due to some occasional high load external vehicle connection.

Anyway, I'm pretty impressed with the unit coming up from a very reliable Bosch 140a unit. If I was running big amps, lights or a snow plow I could justify a higher cost. It's commercially designed and built. At idle at cold start with the GPs on its outputting 150 amps and the voltage climbs. When the GPs turn off the batteries are taking 60a, all they can at that point.

Prestolite - Leece Neville

http://www.prestolite.com/literature/alts/AVi160T_Navistar_Ford_applications_FL1022.pdf

One Ford part number: 6E7Z10346C

And the reason I'm posting this is it appears there is a block of them available right now on close out. I've confirmed it has the same part number on the alternators label as mine, the packaging, instructions and included parts are exactly as what I got. If you're in upgrade mode or think you have an alternator heading south, it looks like a good opportunity.

New PTS ALTERNATOR1999 2008 Ford Super Duty E F Series LCF 230A 7341 A160202 | eBay

If your interested in it I would ask the vendor what the label on the box says as mine reads A160202-2 and that should confirm its the exact one I have.
 

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I look forward to that because I plow. I do not do parking lots as that is the same as dunking your truck in the ocean. I try to run with the storm and always stay rural so often I see very little salt as I'm usually back by the time they start spreading salt.
The storms will be getting worse so I'm interested in more juice.
 
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