The Diesel Stop banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, so here is the story. Bought 97 F350 7.3 with a brand new Jasper E4od 1 year ago. Bigger injectors, TS chip, 6 inch lift etc etc. The thing is a beast. ABS light was on when I bought it. Had scanned but they couldn't come up with anything. Torque converter blew 3 months later. PO apparently took it on the sand a lot so no surprise there I guess. Not sure if the TS chip running in position 6 all the time had anything to do with it. Got new torque converter installed. All went well for a while.

First thing that started to happen was I was heading up the freeway pulling 3000lb boat and as I went up a hill I had this like micro sputter between 55 and 65mph. It was one of those things that I could hear more than feel. If I wasn't paying attention I wouldn't have known about it. So after reading and reading, I decided to replace the MLPS since it was the original on there. I also replaced VSS and did a rear end fluid change. ABS light went off for a couple minutes but then went right back on. I did notice a slight chip in one of the teeth of the tone ring but it wasn't huge.

So then a couple weeks later, I was pulling a very light trailer heading to the dump and as I approached a stop sign, the engine died and what was weird is it felt as if I were in a manual tranny and forgot to push in the clutch (like the TC was still locked.) Started right back up and on my way I went.

When I bought the truck, it had 33's on it but I put 35's on it (4:10's). I have the newest Edge monitor (can't think of the name right now but it's not the tuner) and anyways I have it set my current tires to read speed accurately. The speedo is about 9mph slow due to the bigger tires and the PSOM is locked out because of too many changes.

I've always thought I had a little erratic shifting so while reading about the little sputter, I realized my speedo could be affecting my shifts. So I bought a new PSOM and installed it and in the PSOM I installed LED backlights.

After installing the new PSOM, I re calibrated it to my tire size. However, it now drives like total crap. It won't shift into 3rd gear while under load. The fastest I can get is like 35mph. Whats weird is my Edge tells me what gear it is in and sometimes it seems like it is wrong. Going up a hill, my RPM's just climb but speed stays the same after about 39ish. Once the temp comes up a little bit, I had no reverse. I'd have to turn it off, let it sit a bit and then eventually reverse would work. When cold R works fine.

So I dropped the pan and pulled the VB. I bought a tugger kit and installed it. The magnet looked like a sea anemone! All the shiny grease like stuff but there was one tiny piece of flat metal about 4mm wide by about 10mm long and very thin. There was quite a bit of material on the bottom of the pan too. Replaced filter, couldn't drain TC because there wasn't a plug. Fluid wasn't "burnt" or black but just looked like dirty cherry. I refilled and now it gets to 3rd it seems but definitely won't go into 4th. On my way back down the hill, I pickup speed and get to 55mph and per my Edge monitor, it shifts into 4th gear, but when I step on the gas it feels like the TC is not locked and the RPM's start to go way up. Also, reverse works fine now when warm.

I tapped into the purple/yellow TC lockup wire and just took it out for a test drive and the TC is locking. While sitting in D, it instantly kills the engine so it doesn't appear to be shot.

I also read about the brake lights issue - top of cab was out as was one of the back ones. Replaced them all but no change.

I was hoping to take this truck on a 2 week trip really soon and cannot get it into a reputable shop before I was planning to leave. Any help diagnosing or advice would be extremely appreciated!!!

I would think if the 3rd clutch pack was gone, I wouldn't have reverse, right? It sounds to me more of an electrical/sensor issue vs mechanical in the tranny - even though I did have that once little piece in there on the magnet. One thing I forgot to mention, I did pull a very very heavy 5th wheel one time over the mountains that slightly overheated the engine - tranny was fine until I turned the engine off at the top to give it a break and then the OD light started blinking. That was back in October and after resetting it, it drove fine for many miles until these issues started coming up.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,015 Posts
Not sure if the TS chip running in position 6 all the time had anything to do with it.
Yes, it had a lot to do with it.

So after reading and reading, I decided to replace the MLPS since it was the original on there.
I can't imagine any scenario where this makes sense. How did you come up with the MLPS causing this?

I did notice a slight chip in one of the teeth of the tone ring but it wasn't huge.
The tone ring doesn't engage anything, so how does it get a chipped tooth? Something bad is happening in the rear end is my guess.

After installing the new PSOM, I re calibrated it to my tire size. However, it now drives like total crap. It won't shift into 3rd gear while under load.
Are any codes stored? Does the OD OFF light flash?

The fastest I can get is like 35mph. Whats weird is my Edge tells me what gear it is in and sometimes it seems like it is wrong. Going up a hill, my RPM's just climb but speed stays the same after about 39ish.
That should set codes.

Once the temp comes up a little bit, I had no reverse. I'd have to turn it off, let it sit a bit and then eventually reverse would work. When cold R works fine.
There is NOTHING electrical or electronic that can prevent reverse. The ONLY way that can happen is if the reverse or direct clutches are damaged. And the fact that it works cold and not hot lead me to believe you have a damaged clutch.

So I dropped the pan and pulled the VB. I bought a tugger kit and installed it.
As you found out that won't help this problem.

The magnet looked like a sea anemone! All the shiny grease like stuff but there was one tiny piece of flat metal about 4mm wide by about 10mm long and very thin. There was quite a bit of material on the bottom of the pan too.
More signs of internal damage.

Replaced filter, couldn't drain TC because there wasn't a plug.
You could have done THIS, but at this point I don't think it would help.

but when I step on the gas it feels like the TC is not locked and the RPM's start to go way up.
What is way up? An unlocked converter will raise the RPM 300-800 RPM. And more than that and one of the transmission clutches is slipping.

Also, reverse works fine now when warm.
That's very curious.

I tapped into the purple/yellow TC lockup wire and just took it out for a test drive and the TC is locking. While sitting in D, it instantly kills the engine so it doesn't appear to be shot.
The converter clutch is working. I'd be interested to see if it kills the engine in reverse, too.

I also read about the brake lights issue - top of cab was out as was one of the back ones. Replaced them all but no change.
LEDs can cause the torque converter to not lock.

I would think if the 3rd clutch pack was gone, I wouldn't have reverse, right?
Not necessarily. The torque path is different (though it is still through the direct clutch) and the pressure to the clutch is higher in reverse than third gear.

It sounds to me more of an electrical/sensor issue vs mechanical in the tranny - even though I did have that once little piece in there on the magnet.
And it sounds to me like a mechanical problem in the trans, not electronic.

tranny was fine until I turned the engine off at the top to give it a break and then the OD light started blinking.
I can only guess as to why the OD light was flashing. My guess is that the trans was overheated. Shutting the engine off with an overheated trans heat soaks the transmission, which can cause all sorts of damage. Some of it includes general weakening of parts, which can take some time until symptoms appear.

I wouldn't take this on any long trip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the response Mark,
I have scoured google about E4OD's so I can't remember exactly which one caused me to think MLPS. If I remember correctly, it was talking about popping into neutral. Also, something else I didn't mention was I had to lift my shift lever to start the truck and the shop who sent my tranny back for repair forgot to pull my original mlps before sending it in and they get stripped at the factory so they found one in the bone yard to put on mine. So I took the $40 gamble and changed it out.

I have a feeling I actually did the damage to the tone ring...not sure though. I changed the vss first before pulling the cover and I broke the sensor off and ended up having to drill a little hole to put a screw in to lever it out. I was really careful and I can't imagine the little 1/8 or 1/16th drill bit I used chipping a tooth though.... PO had them both redone so possibly damaged a long time ago?

No Codes and no flashing OD

As far as exact rpm's...it was around 3500 I think. Definitely far past anything I've ever gotten it to with normal everyday driving around town. When I was going downhill at 55mph, the Edge CTS2 said I was in 4th gear. But when I gave it a little gas, it sounded like it was still in 2nd....rpm's increased rapidly but I couldn't feel any power being put to the wheels - I think it was because I was already going faster than that gear would allow? Not sure if that makes sense.... kind of like if you put a 10 speed bike in the lowest gear like you were going to ride up a steep hill but you were actually riding down the hill. If you pedal, you don't really do anything because that gear can't keep up with the speed of your wheels. No idea if an auto transmission works like this but its what it reminded me of.

Engine did nothing when I grounded the TC wire while in reverse. No loss of rpm or noticeable difference.

Since you said having no reverse cannot be an electrical issue (which I got stuck many times because of it) and after watching a Youtube Vid and seeing the clutch packs of a fried e4od and the corresponding metal shavings on the magnet (looked just like mine) I think I am just going to yank it and attempt a rebuild myself this time. Any recommendations for a rebuild kit? I see the ones on Ebay for roughly 300 but I'm always hesitant with Ebay (unfortunately I can't afford a grand for a monster kit) Also, would you replace the TC since it seems to be fine? I personally have no plans to pull anything over 4k lbs anymore (my 5th wheel was 17k)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,015 Posts
A trans does work exactly like you example of a 10 speed bike going downhill, except in fourth gear. What you described CANNOT happen in fourth gear unless a clutch is slipping. I think you're right, this one needs to be rebuilt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So just for for the hell of it, I decided to put in my old PSOM and I replaced the LED lights in the cluster with incandescent. Oddly enough, it changed things - but didn't cure things. It will now shift into third and if I let off just a little it will go into 4th...but not for long. It seems to hop around. It doesn't like to stay in 4th. I have a specific route that I've been testing it is and now on my way back coming down the hill, I get up to 55ish but it refuses to go into 4th.

I drove until I reached my normal operating tranny temp (150ish) and reverse was working just fine with some pep to it if I got on it.

I know it is probably still a mechanical thing and I will likely still be tearing into it in the near future....just wanted to see if it was one of the many electrical quirks these trucks have.

Should I be resetting the PCM when I change the PSOM out? If so, (which I haven't been) I'm assuming the only way to reset it is to disconnect the neg term for 5 minutes?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,015 Posts
There is nothing in the PCM that resets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
so today, I decided to unhook negatives to let it just sit - hoping that by some chance this could still be some crazy sensor or something. I have no idea how the TPS works but decided to give it a little love tap with a screw driver (kind of like the old top of the tv tap thing ;) lol and I made sure the connection was good. Took the truck out on a drive and walla - shifted into 4th. But, as soon as I got on it a little because I was starting to go up a slight incline, it started bouncing between 3rd and 4th like it couldn't make up its mind. If I let off completely and then barely got on the accelerator it would go back into 4th. Funny thing though is at one point both 3rd and 4th had really hard shifts which I wasn't expecting. Do you think I'd be wasting 60 bucks on a TPS or do you still think the clutch packs are toast?
Thanks for all the good info!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
OK, so I just tested the TPS and found the values to be quite different from what I am seeing that they should be online. Idle output is .57 volts sweeping up to 3.65 at WOT. The technical bulletin states idle should be 1.2 and 4.5 at WOT. Anyone know if this is enough to cause an issue?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok, so after a very long vacation and some procrastination...I finally got the tranny to a local shop for some diagnosis and a rebuild. What he told me was the center support shaft has two grooves for 2 rings to go down into. The edges of those grooves were worn/rounded over which caused the ring to flatten out ultimately losing seal. He had me run my finger along the side of the ring and there was a very sharp lip that had formed from the part that makes contact smashing out a little. He showed me with air how the clutch pack would not engage due to the flattened out rings and leakage. He also pointed out that the support shaft normally has a steel gasket between it and the center support and mine had a gasket made from silicone. He said the normal operating pressures would cause that silicone to fail as well.

What I am trying to figure out is if this is a situation caused by my truck or is it a simple part failure? I believe from what I have read online that Jasper uses used hard parts to rebuild their transmissions. Could it be that this support shaft was just a little too used? There is only 2k on the tranny. Everthing else inside looked great (except the 3rd frictions)

Also, just curious on thoughts about the silicone gasket between the center support and the shaft?
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top