[copp123]

Well well.

I've been trolling around on these forums for about a year now and I'm still a little confused. Here's my dream:

I'm getting out of the Army after 8 years on December 1st and my wife and I plan to embark on an epic road trip. Believing that green is a color not solely reserved for an Army uniform, I have endeavored to build a "go anywhere home" for this trip that minimizes our personal dependancy on oil. Naturally, I was turned on to the zany world of WVO quite some time ago and have since been working towards putting together a nice, mobile, WVO 4x4 camper setup.

So I bought a 99 F250 PSD CC/SB a few weeks ago and I am rolling up my sleaves to both convert it to run on WVO and to find an appropriate slide-in truck camper to go with it. This is turning out to be more tricky than I thought. Here are the problems I see so far:

1) Where do you put the aux fuel tank if you need the bed for a camper. I think the answer is to put it where the spare tire goes, but neither greasecar nor greasel offer this option. They both talk about custom jobs, but that seems to take awhile, and December 1st just isn't that far off. I'd be willing to try a custom job myself with some guidance. Anyone?

2) Grease collection on the road. Some of the posts I've read here talk a lot about the collection process and water separation. I must admit that I was much happier when I thought all I had to do was build some kind of "pre-filter" collection apparatus that would allow me to pull my rig right up to the restaurant, dip a hose, and pump away. Is there any way to truly do this on the go? What are the risks? If it's just filters, maybe I can live with that.

3) Lots of opinions out there. I'm a little overwhelmed by all of the "facts" about conversions. Greasecar says they have a kit coming soon for the 99-03 PSD, but Greasel says just go with what they have. Why the difference? Can someone who's not marketing a product offer sage advice to a novice starting out? Should I buy an off-the-shelf kit from one of these companies and modify the tank? Or should I attempt to do the entire thing from scratch?

Any advice or links or forum strings would be great guys. Especially when it comes to picturing my entire equation. On December 1st, we want to drive away in a self-contained (not towing anything) F250 CC/SB 4x4 camper running on WVO. Is it possible?

Thanks ahead of time!

 

[mm0015]

The tank issue may be solved by installing an under-bed tank such as the excursion's. If I remember right, it is like 45 gallons /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif . I seen some threads on this board a while back about installing it in place of the spare tire carrier.

The biggest current isse with collecting WVo on the road is water seperation. The filtering is easy enought, but getting the water out is time consuming and complicated. There are a fuel people working on this right now, but they have a ways to go before they would have something that would be compact enough to fit anywhere except in the bed or in a trailer.

Some poeple don't about the water so much, but it is unclear yet what kind of damage water in the WVO does to the PSD.

 

[copp123]

Thanks for the feedback! I think you're right about the spare-tire tank. The guys at greasel say they will build me a custom one.

As for the water separation, I was thinking that I might be able to accomplish this in a mobile tank (perhaps strapped to the roof) much smaller than a 55 gal drum - or at least a much flatter shape. Perhaps I could even design a custom collection tank that's main volume sits in a realtively flat profile on the roof of either the camper or the truck but has a "sump portion" of some kind that hangs over the side. My thinking is that maybe just driving will provide enough agitation to accomplish some "bubble washing" and then if you park for say 3 days, the water would settle out in the lower sump part of the tank.

Just thinking out loud here, and really don't know what I'm talking about, but I figure if I throw a crazy idea out there, maybe someone smart will come back with something solid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Thanks again for the input!

 

[TSUTrojan]

First off, Thanks for your service to our country.

As mentioned earlier, you could use an Excursion tank where the spare tire mounts but they can be hard to locate. The tank for a late model Bronco will also fit in place of the spare tire. They can be found new in steel or plastic for $120 or less and are advertised at 33 gal (IIRC). Filtering and gathering equipment could be carried on one of those cargo trays that slide into the receiver hitch.

You might also reconsider a small travel trailer instead of the in-bed camper. This would let you put a tank in the bed with higher capacity and filtering/settling capabilities. This would also help with weight issues.

See the post titled "WVO - on the fly? Almost...portable processing" for some ideas.

Between Greasel and Greasecar, I personally would lean toward Greasel. I was going to order one of their kits until I read on here about Fordnut's system. The reason I lean towards Greasel is that when I first started researching WVO use I had a 2002 24V Cummins. Greasecar says there is no problems converting them, but didn't (at the time) recommend the Powerstrokes. Greasel on the other hand recommended the Powerstrokes for conversion, but wouldn't sell a kit for the 24V Cummins (98.5-02) due to injector pump failures.

If you do some reading over at Turbo Diesel Registry
you will find a lot of post about failed injector pumps. It seems that Bosch relied on the diesel fuel to cool the pump, and the pumps were failing due to overheating issues (condensed version). It makes sense to me that you wouldn't want to send hot oil to an injector pump that has overheating issues.

This is by no means meant as derogatory towards Greasecar, just observations I made and the conclusions I came to. I was ready to order the Greasel kit until I read on here about Fordnut's system and decided to emulate it.

 

[copano]

An excursion tank won't fit, I looked at a friends and the frame is different so I built a 42 gallon aft axle tank.

I have a few pics of it in this folder

 

[copp123]

PS Dude,

That looks like the PERFECT tank! Do you by any chance have the specs for it? I'm no welder or even much of a mechanic for that matter, but I'd like to investigate having a shop do one for me. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[copp123]

Trojan,

I think you're right about greasel from what I've read. Although Greasecar really does have the marketing aspect of this game covered!

I too was almost set to buy a custom kit from Greasel until I started REALLY delving into the details of building my own. It doesn't look as overwhelming as I originally pictured and Greasel wants $1500 for my custom kit!

I started another thread ( Plain Vanilla Conversion Kit ) asking for a basic "first step" guide to building a generalised conversion kit - from oil tank to injectors (possibly an in-line list of parts, or even better a diagram). Still haven't found anything like this although I'm starting to form the picture of what I need in my head from all the reading I've done.

So far to me it sounds like you need (in order):

1) Heated tank (heated from coolant lines)
2) HIH or HOH fuel lines
3) Large heated fuel filter (2 micron)
4) Solenoid manifold (6x)
5) Return Lines

What am I missing? I feel like there's another filter somewhere in the line. And what sensors do you need (ie - temp, vacuum etc) and where do they go?

This is the basic outline I'm looking for, and it would really help to have a diagram.


As for the "on the go" collection issue, I guess I'm going to try to stick to my guns and hope to work out a way to not have to tow anything - a trailor of any kind ruins my personal image of "on the go". But that's me and I'm a little stuborn. I like the hitch cage idea, and I'd also like to explore mounting something (low-profile) to the roof - perhaps with some kind of sump hanging off the sides. But I'm very new to this and really don't know what I'm talking about!

Thanks for all the help!

 

[a93bowtie]

Alright, Durdie boy- hold on to yer britches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

Here is the original (I think) post that details the theory behind the FN74 WVO system. The thread is many pages long, but it will bring you up to speed with everyone else on this system's roots.

Here is the diagram to the FN74 system, and it has a pretty general list of parts for this type of conversion, not part numbers and prices, but it will get you going down the right path.

Your parts list showed a six-way valve. (you expressed it as a 'solenoid manifold') Most of the six-way systems take a number of miles/minutes (10-15, give or take- depending on placement) to purge back to diesel for shutdown. The FN74 system purges in moments, some setups can reportedly get your purge times under a minute. For my 15 minute commute, I'd not even get switched to veg and I'd have to switch back to diesel. With FN74 I'll be on veg before I'm a mile from home, and won't have to switch back until I hit my cool-down in the driveway. The goal is to make the volume of fuel in the common (shared) areas as little as possible. If you are going to be long-hauling, and hour or better on any given trip, or your truck will start once and run all day, a six-port system may work for you. Lord knows it's gotta be easier to install!

Good luck in your ventures to gain knowledge- you've got some reading to do!

 

[TSUTrojan]

Might want to look Here . Seems it can be done, but will be tight.

 

[TSUTrojan]

Durden,

You pretty much got it. The process can be really simplified for explanation, but when you start gathering parts it can get overwhelming.

You might want to look at this thread concerning campers and weight issues. I don't want to get into the whole "the truck can do it" vs. "it's not legal" issue that comes up all the time, just wanted you to be aware of the issue.

 

[Monte1]

[ QUOTE ]
Durden,

You pretty much got it. The process can be really simplified for explanation, but when you start gathering parts it can get overwhelming.

You might want to look at this thread concerning campers and weight issues. I don't want to get into the whole "the truck can do it" vs. "it's not legal" issue that comes up all the time, just wanted you to be aware of the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the camper advice in the thread. See my truck 1 in signature. My dually is overloaded with the 11.5 ft. camper. If I were to do it over again, I'd get a much smaller camper. With the crew cab, you are putting most of the camper weight on the rear axle.
That is not good. Blowouts become a problem...I hope you like excitement if you are running a big camper, single rear wheels and stock tires. You might consider 19.5 inch wheels with 16 ply tires. Also, you will need airbags and a rear sway bar. You've got a lot of work ahead before you are "road ready", and it ain't all wvo stuff.

 

[macinco]

Well, I have never done what you are trying to do but, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night..... (just kidding)

The travel trailer (vs bed camper) might be a good plan (looks like you got some good advice from people with real experience regarding axle weight, stability, load etc.

But if you do go with a in-bed camper, I would get a small/medium trailer (enclosed?) to pull behind with WVO gear. In this trailer, I would have several (3?) 55 gallon drums. (When you find good oil, stock up).

If it is sunny and warm (big if), I have found that you can heat and dry veg oil as follows:

1) Get 100 or so feet coil of black flexible sprinkler pipe (3/4) (from your trailer), and put a pump in line (1" clear waterpump from harbor freight works great if you have 110, or a big power inverter), sucking the WVO from the bottom of a barrel, running through the hot hose sitting in the sun blistering sun, coming out the other end of the black hose onto some sort of channel iron (or gutter or whatever) also in the blistering hot sun)at an angle that pours it right back into the barrel. Afterit runs for a couple hours, your oil will be getting pretty hot, and with some creative plumbing and valves, start routing the hot oil (still through the hot black hose) through whatever series of particle filters you need. Assuming you had a barrel of oil to "treat" (dewater and filter), I bet you coul process 55 gallons in 4 hours or less.

Wonder if you could pull this off in a campground with hookups? (I bet one could).

I just tried this out (I am making biodiesel, so not too concerned about filtering), and I think the heat and exposure to air (the blistering hot balck iron channel doesn;t hurt a bit) REALLY works well and completely for deatering (and heating).

Not exactly mobile processing, but this might be feasible on your epic journey.

Never done it but I would consider FN74 for the vehicle setup. Maybe your WVO tank could be in the trailer (a barrel) with the fuel and returns routed along the the hitch with some provisions to quickly and efficiently connect/disconnect?

Another angle. Make a solar collector on top of yor camper or trailer (that looks nice and works really well)and throw the black flexible hose away.

And.... you could probably make an occisional batch of bio for colder temps and starts/stops.

Just some ideas?

 

[copano]

I guess I should have stated it wasn't a bolt on fit rather than wouldn't fit.

For me it was easier to buld a tank from scratch than buy a tank, modify it and fit it.


DurdenJr,

I'll see if I have a copy of the tank drawing here at the cabin and scan it...if not I'll get the basic measurements and post in the next few days if you can hold on that long.

 

[copp123]

BigOil,

Thanks so much for the diagram. That's exactly what I was looking for! Your first link to the description however doesn't work. Can you maybe paste in the address?

Thanks again!

 

[copp123]

PS Dude,

I'm now even more enthused to realize that your tank is a bolt-in job. I will most definitely wait patiently for your specs/design drawing! Being a real novice though, I hope you don't mind if I bother you for continual guidance in getting the thing made by a welder. Thanks again!

 

[copano]

Durden,

I just noticed that you have a sb so I'm not sure my tank will fit your truck as I have a long bed, and from a discussion I had with CPUneck who also has a short bed he didn't think it would fit his truck.

Anyway my tank is 30 1/2" long so you might check to see if it will fit before I measure it and draw it out (no copy of the drawing at the cabin).

If it looks like it will fit let me know or if anyone else with a long bed has an interest in it let me know and I'll get it drawn up and post it.

 

[a93bowtie]

Try This

 

[SLOTAO]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, Durdie boy- hold on to yer britches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

Here is the original (I think) post that details the theory behind the FN74 WVO system. The thread is many pages long, but it will bring you up to speed with everyone else on this system's roots.


I'm having trouble follwing this link.. Do you have the URL?

 

[TSUTrojan]

Check out this link for "bladder" style tanks. I didn't see any costs, but they might work pretty good for collection or on top of the camper.

 

[a93bowtie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alright, Durdie boy- hold on to yer britches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif

Here is the original (I think) post that details the theory behind the FN74 WVO system. The thread is many pages long, but it will bring you up to speed with everyone else on this system's roots.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm having trouble follwing this link.. Do you have the URL?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I fixed it with "try this" in the post above yours... Try THAT!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif