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Just looked at some '08's today. Prices were good but financing was crap! I guess you have to pay cash to really get a good deal. What the hell's the point getting $10,000 off if you have to repay that same amount in interest. When I bought my Dodge they gave me a great price and 0% financing for 60 months. Ford will give me 2.9%, but only if I pay for 36 mos. and then they won't deal. I wonder why they can't sell trucks!
In comparison to Dodge and GM, they're actually doing a better job of staying afloat. The glut of trucks is an industry wide problem. Cash is always king.
 

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My 1997 F350 Crewcab Dually sold new for $21655.00. Ten years later a like equipped 2007 F350 sells for $44000.00. And up...It's gotta stop somewhere. I think it's time for Detroit to restructure. From top to bottom. The question is....are the auto workers willing to take pay and benefit cuts in order to preserve their jobs? The CEO's claim they'll work for a dollar a year. (Like we really believe that) The days of wages equivalent to $80.00 an hour (with benefits) are over I think. I don't make that kind of money, do you?
Thought about that for awhile.
A new vehicle costs a years wages always has and seems always will.
 

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Thought about that for awhile.
A new vehicle costs a years wages always has and seems always will.
This is a point I want to dig a bit deeper. There is a recent post by badbart stating he paid $21655 in 1997, now 44k. This is 7.3 % yearly appreciation / inflation. I wonder if wages have been adjusted that much. A number of 3-4 % looks more realistic to me. Therefore a new truck should be 30k not 44k.

Also I can remember a post saing a fully equipped F series was much less than 10 k in 1985 or so. This would be some 8 %.

No argument that current rigs cannot be compared to these old models. Much more features but much less handmade parts and much much more parts coming from China or other low cost countries.

Jim
 

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This is a point I want to dig a bit deeper. There is a recent post by badbart stating he paid $21655 in 1997, now 44k. This is 7.3 % yearly appreciation / inflation. I wonder if wages have been adjusted that much. A number of 3-4 % looks more realistic to me. Therefore a new truck should be 30k not 44k.

Also I can remember a post saing a fully equipped F series was much less than 10 k in 1985 or so. This would be some 8 %.

No argument that current rigs cannot be compared to these old models. Much more features but much less handmade parts and much much more parts coming from China or other low cost countries.

Jim
It seems that they are buying cheaper parts (China,etc.) and paying much higher labor (UAW).
 

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This is a point I want to dig a bit deeper. There is a recent post by badbart stating he paid $21655 in 1997, now 44k. This is 7.3 % yearly appreciation / inflation. I wonder if wages have been adjusted that much. A number of 3-4 % looks more realistic to me. Therefore a new truck should be 30k not 44k.



Jim


It's called GREED. The car companies and the UAW for years were taking as much as they could get, and we were stupid enough to keep paying their ridiculous prices. Now it's finally caught up with them and our own government wants to bail them out! Poor business practices should not be rewarded. I think I'll just keep my Dodge and hope the Big 3 are forced to file Ch. 11 and restructure. Then, maybe they will be able to start selling trucks at a decent price again.
 

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Hm, on the other hand I just compared some prices in Europe. A BMW which was 29k EUR in 2000 and 40k EUR in 2004 now is 50k. :eek:

Jim
 

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My 1997 F350 Crewcab Dually sold new for $21655.00.
$21655?????? How did a 1997 F350 XLT Crew Cab Dually, 7.3 Powerstroke, 4:10 gears sell for $21655 when a regular cab XLT PSD SRW sold for $32310?

I just looked at my "Window sticker" and that's what my '97 truck sold for. The XLT option which you have too was $3360 for my truck. $4265 for the PSD and $970 for the Auto transmission. Then there were a few other minor options.
 

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$21655?????? How did a 1997 F350 XLT Crew Cab Dually, 7.3 Powerstroke, 4:10 gears sell for $21655 when a regular cab XLT PSD SRW sold for $32310?

I just looked at my "Window sticker" and that's what my '97 truck sold for. The XLT option which you have too was $3360 for my truck. $4265 for the PSD and $970 for the Auto transmission. Then there were a few other minor options.
Sorry, my bad, $21655.00 was the BASE price. With all options retail was $31850.00. But still, $12000.00 is quite an increase in 10 years. Over 25%...
 

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Just to note that they are doing these packages because it makes the trucks cheaper to build and makes the assembly line move faster.
 

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Just to note that they are doing these packages because it makes the trucks cheaper to build and makes the assembly line move faster.

I understand the logic....but I still long for the "good old days". In 1969 you could order a Camaro with a 250 ci six, a 307 v8, several versions of the 350, three different 396's, and a 427 (COPO).
 

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Sorry, my bad, $21655.00 was the BASE price. With all options retail was $31850.00. But still, $12000.00 is quite an increase in 10 years. Over 25%...
Get a reality check. That's under roughly 3.5% a year increase in vehicle cost, while the cost of living is well above that. I wish other things "increased" each year at the 3.5% rate.
 

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I understand the logic....but I still long for the "good old days". In 1969 you could order a Camaro with a 250 ci six, a 307 v8, several versions of the 350, three different 396's, and a 427 (COPO).
Ah yes the (COPO'S) This package was the original Brainchild of Dick Harrel and Don Yenko along with Vince Piggins from Chevrolet.Motion Performance and Nickey Chevrolet were the 2 other famous dealerships marketing them. I grew up Not Far from Yenko Chevrolet In Canonsburg Pa and I saw Many of These Monster Camaro's Chevelles and Novas Pounding the street in my town. Stuff like this you never Forget !!. Sorry I had to Hi-Jack when I read that. This was factory Muscle that will never be equaled again. Back to your regular thread lol
 

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Get a reality check. That's under roughly 3.5% a year increase in vehicle cost, while the cost of living is well above that. I wish other things "increased" each year at the 3.5% rate.

We are getting a reality check....that's what's wrong with the economy now...it's finally catching up. When will it stop? The California housing market is a good example.No one could buy a house in Ca. two years ago because the pricing got so out of hand...ten years from now a $44,000.00 truck will cost, what, $75,000.00? How much is the guy at the convenience store going to be making then...$12.00 an hour? Where is this going?
 

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Just to note that they are doing these packages because it makes the trucks cheaper to build and makes the assembly line move faster.
That's counter intuitive. Variability introduces problems that the average person doesn't think of. Designing, manufacturing, installing, maintaining, and troubleshooting. All of these activities have a cost associated with them. Fewer variables equals lower cost.

They have too many different packages and options that are difficult to understand and in some cases not easy to add after the fact. This means that they didn't design their trucks for manufacturing. If they did, things like the fog lamps would be a simple plug in add-on. Unlike Nissan, fog lamps are not a simple plug in add-on. Proper design for manufacturing equals lower costs in the long run.
 

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If real truck owners werent *****ing because they cant get navigation with a stick shift, and crap like that. Remember the days when a pickup had a regular cab with a cloth or vinyl bench seat and an am/fm stereo. How much more yuppie can you get than a new truck these days. If you want a cheap truck then buy a used truck. Instead every one wants more crap added from the factory. Heated seats and navi blah blah blah. :lol:
 

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Remember the days when a pickup had a regular cab with a cloth or vinyl bench seat and an am/fm stereo.
Ford still makes it, but it has a few things standard that used to be options.

The 2009 F-150 comes in a regular cab with a small V8, Am/Fm sterio radio, manual windows and door locks, and "hose it out" vinyl seats and floors. It doesn't have a cruise control.

But standard equipment includes an automatic tranny, manual AC, power steering, interval wipers, and tilt steering column whether you want it or not. Those were all luxury options not many years ago. It also has the new-fangled stuff such as stability control, 4-wheel ABS and 4-wheel disk brakes, trailer sway control, airbags and seat belts, PATS, and wheel covers instead of "dog dish" hub caps.

So although you can no longer buy something as plain (and cheap) as the 1950 Dodge pickup I grew up with, the "stripped" 2009 F-150 is not exactly a luxury ride. But I could live with one with only optional cloth seats.
 

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I do understand that options are given by the factory. I just think we sometimes sound like a bunch of cry babies because we want all of this nonsense in our pickups. What we really need is a stout motor, good transmission and overall decent drivetrain. :ford:
 

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I do understand that options are given by the factory. I just think we sometimes sound like a bunch of cry babies because we want all of this nonsense in our pickups. What we really need is a stout motor, good transmission and overall decent drivetrain. :ford:
Although I agree with your final sentence, the "nonsense" statement may not hold much water. If that is the case, you may be one of those guys who still beats his close on the rocks using homemade lye soap, uses a wood-burning stove for heat and cooking, only has an outhouse, raises cows for beef and milk, chickens for eggs, and gas lamps for lights. It is called evolution.

Nothing ever said consumers couldn't want the nicer creature comforts of cars today in their pickups. Is it any more right to howl if the heated seat goes out a BMW? The new world says we would like to have the ability to have a nicer truck than yesteryear. The truck manufacturers have said they will build what people want.

Although many people USE their trucks for hauling, a good majority today uses them for commuting and weekend warrior work. After working our in the cold twelve hours and being soaked to the bone, I like a comnfortable seat in my truck, a nice stereo booming in the background, a heated seat on my butt and lower back, and a quiet heater pushing warm air on my frozen body... all on my 2 hour ride home. I still use my truck, too, but you can have your 4-speed manual, vinyl seats, manual windows, and blackwalls.
 

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It's funny, now that you mention the "old" trucks....the one I miss the most was a 1983 Chevy 4x4 1/2 ton with a straight six, four speed, with power steering and power brakes. Manual windows, vinyl seats...no a/c. It was way low on power but it went just about anywhere. I drove that truck for 11 years and never had any trouble with the engine or transmission. I did have to put a rear end in it, but other than an alternator and a water pump, that's about it. I put front brakes on it at 170K miles and never replaced the rear ones. When I finally sold it had 245K miles on it. If it had a/c I would have kept it longer! The funny part was I bought it used in 1989 with 93K miles on it for $1800.00(it needed a clutch)and sold it in 2000 for $2300.00!
 

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Ah yes the (COPO'S) This package was the original Brainchild of Dick Harrel and Don Yenko along with Vince Piggins from Chevrolet.Motion Performance and Nickey Chevrolet were the 2 other famous dealerships marketing them. I grew up Not Far from Yenko Chevrolet In Canonsburg Pa and I saw Many of These Monster Camaro's Chevelles and Novas Pounding the street in my town. Stuff like this you never Forget !!. Sorry I had to Hi-Jack when I read that. This was factory Muscle that will never be equaled again. Back to your regular thread lol

I know it's off topic, but there were actually two 427's. The Yenko's were cast block with aluminum heads. The real limited COPO's (Central Office Production Order) were aluminum block and heads.
 
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