Yeah, liked to know what you come up for readings with the new muffler in comparison to going straight pipe.
High EGT's
I have an early 99 F-350. The EGT's are running higher than they used to with no modifications being done to the truck. I checked to make sure my boot connections are tight but haven't had time to do a pressure test yet. I'm going to verify the EBPV isn't stuck in a slightly closed position (hopefully tonight). If the leak test turns out good and the EBPV is not stuck closed, I was thinking about purchasing a cat delete pipe for testing to see if the cat is causing a restriction. Does anyone have a suggested place to buy a cat delete pipe? Do the experts out there think I'm on the right track? Any additional suggestions would be appreciated.
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
A BTM or any other straight thru muffler will have zero difference on EGT verses a straight pipe.
Now when removing the stock restricted muffler a straight pipe or BTM will both reduce EGT.
Now when removing the stock restricted muffler a straight pipe or BTM will both reduce EGT.
[ QUOTE ]
A BTM or any other straight thru muffler will have zero difference on EGT verses a straight pipe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, this is what I found to be true as well!
Just got the Walker BTM installed and didn't notice a rise in egt's when compared to running straight.
My next test will be pulling the 5th wheel and see how the egt's are.I really had to watch how much pedal I gave it the last time I pulled.
A BTM or any other straight thru muffler will have zero difference on EGT verses a straight pipe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, this is what I found to be true as well!
Just got the Walker BTM installed and didn't notice a rise in egt's when compared to running straight.
My next test will be pulling the 5th wheel and see how the egt's are.I really had to watch how much pedal I gave it the last time I pulled.
Cool (no pun intended). That's what I was hoping to hear. Sounds like a muffler replacement would be in order for any of our trucks then to get the EGTs down.
Just did the Zoodad mod and tried pulling the 5th wheel. Have not pulled the 5th wheel since Walker BTM and zoodad were done. EGT's still running higher than I would like. I used to be able to run this truck as hard as I wanted when pulling the 5th wheel and not reach 1250 degrees. Now I have to back off the accelerator at times to keep it below 1250.What am I missing?
[ QUOTE ]
Have you checked the HPOP pressure? Jody told me low pressure could contribute to high tempertures. Seems counterintuitive to me but I will go with his expertise.
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What kind of oil pressure should I be seeing at Idle and WOT?
Have you checked the HPOP pressure? Jody told me low pressure could contribute to high tempertures. Seems counterintuitive to me but I will go with his expertise.
[/ QUOTE ]
What kind of oil pressure should I be seeing at Idle and WOT?
I am not sure about idle but at WOT it should be above 2200 or 2400, if I remember right. Some say that 2000 is good enough. I believe the higher the better. I think the terminiator equiped ones go up to 3600 and work even better.
From what I have read the early 99's have a older style pump which isn't as good as the later pumps. Both pumps look the same outside and will fit the same.
From what I have read the early 99's have a older style pump which isn't as good as the later pumps. Both pumps look the same outside and will fit the same.
[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure about idle but at WOT it should be above 2200 or 2400, if I remember right. Some say that 2000 is good enough. I believe the higher the better. I think the terminiator equiped ones go up to 3600 and work even better.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was able to hook up AE and get some readings since my last post. I was geting in the 500 to 600 at idle and 2400 range at WOT
[ QUOTE ]
From what I have read the early 99's have a older style pump which isn't as good as the later pumps. Both pumps look the same outside and will fit the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have read the same thing.
I am not sure about idle but at WOT it should be above 2200 or 2400, if I remember right. Some say that 2000 is good enough. I believe the higher the better. I think the terminiator equiped ones go up to 3600 and work even better.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was able to hook up AE and get some readings since my last post. I was geting in the 500 to 600 at idle and 2400 range at WOT
[ QUOTE ]
From what I have read the early 99's have a older style pump which isn't as good as the later pumps. Both pumps look the same outside and will fit the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have read the same thing.
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I just got back from a muffler shop where they tested my cat out to see if it was clogged. they said there was no problem with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
How did they test it?
I just got back from a muffler shop where they tested my cat out to see if it was clogged. they said there was no problem with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
How did they test it?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just got back from a muffler shop where they tested my cat out to see if it was clogged. they said there was no problem with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
How did they test it?
[/ QUOTE ]
They made a hole in the pipe before and after the cat. they hooked up a gauge and measured the pressure before and after the cat while the engine was running. they said there was no difference in pressure between the two readings indicating there was no restriction being caused by the cat. They said they revved up the engine during the test as well. They said they test cats like this all the time. When they were done they welded the holes back up.
[ QUOTE ]
I just got back from a muffler shop where they tested my cat out to see if it was clogged. they said there was no problem with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
How did they test it?
[/ QUOTE ]
They made a hole in the pipe before and after the cat. they hooked up a gauge and measured the pressure before and after the cat while the engine was running. they said there was no difference in pressure between the two readings indicating there was no restriction being caused by the cat. They said they revved up the engine during the test as well. They said they test cats like this all the time. When they were done they welded the holes back up.
I wouldn't put much weight in that test if it was done with the truck parked. If the pressures were measured while towing your trailer and overheating I might give it more weight. But JFYI I know someone who has done extensive pressure testing on exhaust systems. He has seen substancial gains in performance from larger and different exhausts with no difference in pressure. At least no difference in pressure using common measuring instruments. I would suggest removing the cat, putting a light in one end and looking into the other. Your eyes are a wonderful tool.
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't put much weight in that test if it was done with the truck parked. If the pressures were measured while towing your trailer and overheating I might give it more weight. But JFYI I know someone who has done extensive pressure testing on exhaust systems. He has seen substancial gains in performance from larger and different exhausts with no difference in pressure. At least no difference in pressure using common measuring instruments.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your input. I too was questioning if this is a good test. It seems to me that the cat could possibly keep up with the exhaust flow while parked and revving the engine but have problems with the higher flows when under load. I can only think of one way to prove or disprove this theory. I may have to go in that direction.
I wouldn't put much weight in that test if it was done with the truck parked. If the pressures were measured while towing your trailer and overheating I might give it more weight. But JFYI I know someone who has done extensive pressure testing on exhaust systems. He has seen substancial gains in performance from larger and different exhausts with no difference in pressure. At least no difference in pressure using common measuring instruments.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your input. I too was questioning if this is a good test. It seems to me that the cat could possibly keep up with the exhaust flow while parked and revving the engine but have problems with the higher flows when under load. I can only think of one way to prove or disprove this theory. I may have to go in that direction.
I remember a book a while back called "101 Uses For A Dead Cat"
Update,
Just took the cat out and put a cat test pipe in place. Truck is more responsive off the line and I drove it as hard as I could, unloaded, and didn't get EGT readings above 1100 degrees. This is an improvement in recent months but I remember when I used to be able to pull a 31 foot fifth wheel with this truck, pedal to the floor and never wory about even getting that high.
I think I need to go back to check the EBPV again to make sure it is not partially closed. I tried this a couple of weeks ago and could not figure out how to disconnect the linkage and wire it open. It's a tight spot and hard to see.
I'm hoping someone out there can tell me an easy way to accomplish this.
If you have other ideas of what I should look at, please let me know.
Just took the cat out and put a cat test pipe in place. Truck is more responsive off the line and I drove it as hard as I could, unloaded, and didn't get EGT readings above 1100 degrees. This is an improvement in recent months but I remember when I used to be able to pull a 31 foot fifth wheel with this truck, pedal to the floor and never wory about even getting that high.
I think I need to go back to check the EBPV again to make sure it is not partially closed. I tried this a couple of weeks ago and could not figure out how to disconnect the linkage and wire it open. It's a tight spot and hard to see.
I'm hoping someone out there can tell me an easy way to accomplish this.
If you have other ideas of what I should look at, please let me know.
Update:
To try and consolidate the last 3 pages I have decided to list everything I have done to the truck in an attempt to get my EGT's down. Following is what I have done:
1).Boot connections pressure tested at 18 PSI while spraying soapy water on all connections and looking as well as listening for leaks. No leaks detected.
2). Exhaust manifolds and up pipes inspected for signs of soot. No soot detected.
3). EBPV disconnected electrically
4). Walker Big Truck Muffler installed
5). Zoodad mod performed
6). Fuel return shimmed to 65 PSI. (Was at 50 before shim)
7). HPOP pressure readings taken and following are the results:
Idle 500-600 range
WOT 2400-2500 range
8). Cat delete pipe installed for testing
9). AIS fender sleeve mod installed.
My egt's have come down and my boost has gone up. I got 18.5 psi boost while pulling the 5th wheel last night. I don’t recall ever seeing boost that high in this truck. I still have to watch the EGT's when pulling the 5th wheel but don't have to back off the go pedal nearly as much as I did 3 weeks ago prior to doing the above mentioned work.
I have made significant progress, lowering my EGT's in the past 3 weeks but prior to this year, I never had to watch my EGT's. Something has changed.
The one thing I want to do and have not been able to is positively verify that the EBPV is not partially closed. I would like to mechanically disconnect it and wire it shut. I have searched for a procedure to do this. I have seen posts of people doing so but no details on how to accomplish this.
If anyone out there has a procedure or suggestion on how to accomplish this, please let me know.
In addition if anyone can think of additional items that should be checked when trying to fix high EGT issues, please let me know.
To try and consolidate the last 3 pages I have decided to list everything I have done to the truck in an attempt to get my EGT's down. Following is what I have done:
1).Boot connections pressure tested at 18 PSI while spraying soapy water on all connections and looking as well as listening for leaks. No leaks detected.
2). Exhaust manifolds and up pipes inspected for signs of soot. No soot detected.
3). EBPV disconnected electrically
4). Walker Big Truck Muffler installed
5). Zoodad mod performed
6). Fuel return shimmed to 65 PSI. (Was at 50 before shim)
7). HPOP pressure readings taken and following are the results:
Idle 500-600 range
WOT 2400-2500 range
8). Cat delete pipe installed for testing
9). AIS fender sleeve mod installed.
My egt's have come down and my boost has gone up. I got 18.5 psi boost while pulling the 5th wheel last night. I don’t recall ever seeing boost that high in this truck. I still have to watch the EGT's when pulling the 5th wheel but don't have to back off the go pedal nearly as much as I did 3 weeks ago prior to doing the above mentioned work.
I have made significant progress, lowering my EGT's in the past 3 weeks but prior to this year, I never had to watch my EGT's. Something has changed.
The one thing I want to do and have not been able to is positively verify that the EBPV is not partially closed. I would like to mechanically disconnect it and wire it shut. I have searched for a procedure to do this. I have seen posts of people doing so but no details on how to accomplish this.
If anyone out there has a procedure or suggestion on how to accomplish this, please let me know.
In addition if anyone can think of additional items that should be checked when trying to fix high EGT issues, please let me know.
Are you trying to keep it under 1100°?
[ QUOTE ]
Are you trying to keep it under 1100°?
[/ QUOTE ]
Under 1100 would be nice. My main goal is to get it to where it used to be. I used to be able to keep my foot in the pedal as long as I wanted to while pulling the 5th wheel and never come close to the 1250 limit. I can't tell you exactly what temp I used to get to when pulling the 5th wheel but I can tell you that it was never close enough to the 1250 limit to concern me. I'm guessing 1000 to 1100 range.
Am I expecting too much?
Possibly my gauge is no longer accurate. Someone in a previous post suggested checking this but due to other performance issues, (low boost, turbo lag) I figure that wasn't the case. Now that I have corrected these issues I suppose it is something I should revisit.
Are you trying to keep it under 1100°?
[/ QUOTE ]
Under 1100 would be nice. My main goal is to get it to where it used to be. I used to be able to keep my foot in the pedal as long as I wanted to while pulling the 5th wheel and never come close to the 1250 limit. I can't tell you exactly what temp I used to get to when pulling the 5th wheel but I can tell you that it was never close enough to the 1250 limit to concern me. I'm guessing 1000 to 1100 range.
Am I expecting too much?
Possibly my gauge is no longer accurate. Someone in a previous post suggested checking this but due to other performance issues, (low boost, turbo lag) I figure that wasn't the case. Now that I have corrected these issues I suppose it is something I should revisit.
[ QUOTE ]
Am I expecting too much?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't remember you saying how heavy your trailer is. If you are towing at or close to full throttle, I think it is expecting too much to keep it under 1100. I don't think under 1250 is expecting too much. If you can move the EBP valve linkage, I doubt it is stuck partially closed. It is held open by a spring. Replacing the turbo outlet with a non valve type will improve WOT EGT. Installing a 3.5" downpipe should also help. The flange to pipe transition on the stock downpipe is not a very good one. Have you looked at the front of your truck? Maybe you've driven thru something that has filled the condenser or CAC with debris(bugs,grass,etc.). Restriced airflow thru the CAC will increase EGT.
Am I expecting too much?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't remember you saying how heavy your trailer is. If you are towing at or close to full throttle, I think it is expecting too much to keep it under 1100. I don't think under 1250 is expecting too much. If you can move the EBP valve linkage, I doubt it is stuck partially closed. It is held open by a spring. Replacing the turbo outlet with a non valve type will improve WOT EGT. Installing a 3.5" downpipe should also help. The flange to pipe transition on the stock downpipe is not a very good one. Have you looked at the front of your truck? Maybe you've driven thru something that has filled the condenser or CAC with debris(bugs,grass,etc.). Restriced airflow thru the CAC will increase EGT.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember you saying how heavy your trailer is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Trailer is UVW is 7120 lbs. and GVWR is 10220 lbs.
[ QUOTE ]
If you are towing at or close to full throttle, I think it is expecting too much to keep it under 1100. I don't think under 1250 is expecting too much. If you can move the EBP valve linkage, I doubt it is stuck partially closed. It is held open by a spring.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can only move it a little bit. I believe this is due to the spring tension but not sure since I haven't figured out a way to disconnect the linkage and check the free movement without removing other parts. Should I be able to move the valve (1/4 turn I think) through its full range of motion without disconnecting the linkage?
[ QUOTE ]
Replacing the turbo outlet with a non valve type will improve WOT EGT. Installing a 3.5" downpipe should also help. The flange to pipe transition on the stock downpipe is not a very good one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like these are things I need to look in to doing.
[ QUOTE ]
Have you looked at the front of your truck? Maybe you've driven thru something that has filled the condenser or CAC with debris (bugs,grass,etc.). Restricted airflow thru the CAC will increase EGT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looked at it yesterday and it didn't appear to have any excessive debris stuck in it. Didn't look like it had taken any major hits to damage the cooling fins. The fins definitely don’t look like brand new but based on where the CAC is located and the lack of protection, it's going to take small hits from gravel dust and bugs from time to time. I just wrote it off as normal wear and tear but maybe you’re on to something.
Is it possible for the CAC to loose efficiency from years of oil entering it due to the CCV mod never being performed?
I don't remember you saying how heavy your trailer is.
[/ QUOTE ]
Trailer is UVW is 7120 lbs. and GVWR is 10220 lbs.
[ QUOTE ]
If you are towing at or close to full throttle, I think it is expecting too much to keep it under 1100. I don't think under 1250 is expecting too much. If you can move the EBP valve linkage, I doubt it is stuck partially closed. It is held open by a spring.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can only move it a little bit. I believe this is due to the spring tension but not sure since I haven't figured out a way to disconnect the linkage and check the free movement without removing other parts. Should I be able to move the valve (1/4 turn I think) through its full range of motion without disconnecting the linkage?
[ QUOTE ]
Replacing the turbo outlet with a non valve type will improve WOT EGT. Installing a 3.5" downpipe should also help. The flange to pipe transition on the stock downpipe is not a very good one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like these are things I need to look in to doing.
[ QUOTE ]
Have you looked at the front of your truck? Maybe you've driven thru something that has filled the condenser or CAC with debris (bugs,grass,etc.). Restricted airflow thru the CAC will increase EGT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Looked at it yesterday and it didn't appear to have any excessive debris stuck in it. Didn't look like it had taken any major hits to damage the cooling fins. The fins definitely don’t look like brand new but based on where the CAC is located and the lack of protection, it's going to take small hits from gravel dust and bugs from time to time. I just wrote it off as normal wear and tear but maybe you’re on to something.
Is it possible for the CAC to loose efficiency from years of oil entering it due to the CCV mod never being performed?
[ QUOTE ]
Should I be able to move the valve (1/4 turn I think) through its full range of motion without disconnecting the linkage?
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends how strong you are, It would take a substancial amount of effort. The spring tension on an open valve will be about 10 PSI. That will get progressively higher to about 60 psi when closed. The retaining clip slides straight along the rod to unlock in. I'm not at the shop to look at one but I believe you slide it toward the pedistal to unlock it. You don't have to worry about losing it. It won't fall off the rod.
[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible for the CAC to loose efficiency from years of oil entering it due to the CCV mod never being performed?
[/ QUOTE ]
I would expect a CAC to lose some efficiency as it becomes coated with oil. But I don't think that would be a never ending issue. I don't see how it could be any oiler after 8 years than it was after 7.
I wouldn't necessarily look for cooling fin damage. I would look for stuff in them blocking the airflow. One of the most extreme examples I've ever seen was an 18 wheeler that had hit a swarm of Honey Bees.
Should I be able to move the valve (1/4 turn I think) through its full range of motion without disconnecting the linkage?
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends how strong you are, It would take a substancial amount of effort. The spring tension on an open valve will be about 10 PSI. That will get progressively higher to about 60 psi when closed. The retaining clip slides straight along the rod to unlock in. I'm not at the shop to look at one but I believe you slide it toward the pedistal to unlock it. You don't have to worry about losing it. It won't fall off the rod.
[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible for the CAC to loose efficiency from years of oil entering it due to the CCV mod never being performed?
[/ QUOTE ]
I would expect a CAC to lose some efficiency as it becomes coated with oil. But I don't think that would be a never ending issue. I don't see how it could be any oiler after 8 years than it was after 7.
I wouldn't necessarily look for cooling fin damage. I would look for stuff in them blocking the airflow. One of the most extreme examples I've ever seen was an 18 wheeler that had hit a swarm of Honey Bees.
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